Homeless Encampments

scotchtiger

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2005
134,018
18,202
113
Curious as to the board’s thoughts on Trump’s latest EO. Clearly the left’s policies don’t work here. Thought this was a pretty good opinion piece.

What the Trump administration realizes is that Democrats refuse to accept is that homelessness is, actually, two very distinct problems. One is financial, the other is a matter of addiction and mental health.

Financial homelessness is fairly easy to address. The evicted mother living in her car can be given temporary housing and job assistance. She really does just need a hand up.

Homelessness related to mental illness and addiction, however, isn’t really a homelessness problem at all, it's an addiction and mental illness problem, and shockingly, just letting people in tents shoot up in what was once a thriving commercial district doesn’t solve it.



 

PalmettoTiger1

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2009
10,617
10,500
113
@scotchtiger

Dear Sir

The problem is NOT HOMELESSNESS

It is a revenue issue

The state and federal government have big buckets of money and people have figured out how to get it

What organization wants to solve the homelessness problem when it their source of money

Making it worse gets one more money

So figure which way they will go

The only people wanting to solve homelessness are the ones paying the bill

Tongue in cheek satire make it a crime and uncomfortable to be homeless

As as some warrior chiefs did if they lost a battle would kill every tenth soldier

Saying to the warriors we kill every 10th soldier till we win

Again a macabre tongue in cheek joke kill every 10th homeless person till there is no homeless

As terrible as it sounds I would set up camps to treat and i train homeless back into a meaningful spot in society

A type of social prison to rehabilitate people who have lost their way. Restrict their place in regular society.

Terrible idea but everything we do now is worse

I don’t like it but nobody offers an alternative
 

baltimorened

Active member
May 29, 2001
435
357
63
I'm old enough to remember when mental patients were hospitalized...there was little if any homeless problems. Then, for some reason I can't remember Carter released these folks ND shut the institutions/hospitals. They had no place to go but the streets..instant homelessness. It's been getting worse every year
 

firegiver

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2007
71,600
15,833
113
Im confused, 'the left' doesn't understand that the issue with homelessness is financial and addiction? Tell me you don't listen to any of the 'left's policy proposals.
 

tboonpickens

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2001
16,141
25,402
113
I'm old enough to remember when mental patients were hospitalized...there was little if any homeless problems. Then, for some reason I can't remember Carter released these folks ND shut the institutions/hospitals. They had no place to go but the streets..instant homelessness. It's been getting worse every year
the amount of disinformation on this forum would make Putin blush. good lord, man. if this is how your memory works it might be time to just sit these discussions out.

KATIA RIDDLE, BYLINE: Let us journey back for a few moments to the 1960s. A movement was taking hold around the rights of patients - an idea that people with significant mental health disorders should not be held captive in hospitals. Keith Humphreys studies health policy at Stanford University.

KEITH HUMPHREYS: So there's fewer and fewer state mental hospitals, fewer beds in general hospitals, and fewer and fewer psychiatric hospitals. So this has an effect as you get into the '70s, which is there are more and more people with serious mental illness who are out on the street and are being noticed.

RIDDLE: The country rallied around the idea that people with mental health illnesses also have human rights, but there was no consensus on how to help them. Enter Jimmy Carter. He introduced something called the Mental Health Systems Act. The idea was to fund community health centers all over the country that would support this population.

HUMPHREYS: So now, reaching down into communities around the country, the federal government would build and support, in the long term, community mental health centers all over, and they would help take care of people who had serious mental illness as well as other types of psychiatric disorders.

RIDDLE: Carter had a rocky relationship with Congress. But still, he got the act passed. It was 1980. Months later, Reagan was elected. He dismantled the legislation. But Humphreys says Jimmy Carter introduced the country to a radical proposition with the Mental Health Systems Act - one that was ahead of its time.
________________________________________________________

Before he did it on a national level, Reagan emptied the mental health facilities in CA as its governor:

Gov. Reagan signed the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act in 1967, all but ending the practice of institutionalizing patients against their will.
When deinstitutionalization began 50 years ago, California mistakenly relied on community treatment facilities, which were never built. And the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act made it virtually impossible to compel treatment prior to extreme decompensation.

The consequence became clear quickly. The number of mentally ill people entering the criminal justice system doubled the first year after the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act was enacted.

We in the criminal justice system use the expression “life on the installment plan” to describe the cycle.

Offenders would commit low level crimes and be incarcerated. Jail or prison for many meant stabilization through regular sleep, food, hopefully no alcohol or drugs, and for some, much needed mental health treatment. Then, they’d be released.

Back on the streets, they would decompensate, get arrested again and continue to serve life on the installment plan.
 

tboonpickens

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2001
16,141
25,402
113
I mean this subject requires very little research if you care to rely on facts instead of your biased memory. You're literally blaming Jimmy Carter who tried to fix the burgeoning problem only to have Reagan come in and kill any attempts at progress while laying the groundwork for the crises to come...

Here’s how Reagan’s decision to close mental institutions led to the homelessness crisis​

As a psychologist who began practicing nearly 40 years ago, I’ve seen a significant shift in the care of the mentally ill since the mid-1980s — and it hasn’t been for the better. After the deinstitutionalization movement began in California in the 1960s, many state mental health hospitals closed, forcing many folks who needed a lot of care onto the streets. Without those facilities, many mentally ill people ended up in jails and prisons which are not set up to provide safe, compassionate care for brain illnesses. But in 1981, when President Ronald Reagan deinstitutionalized the mentally ill and emptied the psychiatric hospitals into so-called “community” clinics, the problem got worse.

Most of those who were deinstitutionalized from the nation’s public psychiatric hospitals were severely mentally ill. Between 50 percent and 60 percent were diagnosed with schizophrenia. The fact that many of these people struggled with various forms of brain dysfunction was not recognized back then. With so many advances in brain science, experts now know that we need to be able to coordinate care in residential facilities, especially if we are housing people at $4,000 per day in a local medical hospital.

People with severe mental illness need to be supported every step of the way. They need to be housed with compassion and supplied with medications, state of the art brain health therapies, nutritious food that supports brain health and extracurricular activities that give them a chance to live meaningful lives. They need to receive quality care with programs like art and music therapy, equestrian therapy, job training and volunteer opportunities to become actively engaged members of society.

We need to recognize that deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill is one of the primary causes of the rise of homelessness all over our country. Do mentally ill homeless people deserve care, dignity, security, compassion and brain growth? We know the answer is yes.

Reagan sold this plan by twisting the groundbreaking Lanterman Act. The purpose of the Act was to enable the developmentally disabled to live in the least restrictive environment that would at the same time keep them safe.

___________________________________________________

Ron DeSantis breaks with Ronald Reagan on mental health institutions​

In Iowa’s Winneshiek County at a Never Back Down tour stop, Ron DeSantis criticized a policy imposed by former President Ronald Reagan.

Asked about gun rights during a Q&A session, DeSantis pivoted to questioning Reagan’s decision in the 1980s to close mental hospitals, which preceded an uptick in the homeless population.

“If you look at what happens at a police station when people are coming into the criminal justice system, there’s a huge percentage of these people that have mental health issues and it’s not even, like, a big shooting that gets all the headlines, just regular crimes. So many people, we used to have more of an institutional process where people would be institutionalized, who couldn’t function in society,” DeSantis said.

“We deinstitutionalized some 30 or 40 years ago. You know, I’m not sure that that was the right thing to do,” DeSantis added. “I see all these homeless in Los Angeles and San Francisco and some of these other liberal cities, they’re doing drugs or doing all this, but their mental health is ultimately the root of this. It’s behavior, it’s not that there’s not enough jobs or anything like that.”

Reagan repealed legislation championed by Jimmy Carter that supported mental health institutions. The Mental Health Systems Act authorized grants to public and nonprofit private community mental health centers for operational costs, with an eye toward helping the “chronically mentally ill.” It arose from work during Carter’s single term, via a presidential commission on mental health.

Reagan instead provided block grants to the states at reduced levels, amounting to 75% to 80% of what they would have gotten under the Carter framework.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: DW4_2016 and dpic73

dpic73

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2005
22,097
17,025
113
I mean this subject requires very little research if you care to rely on facts instead of your biased memory. You're literally blaming Jimmy Carter who tried to fix the burgeoning problem only to have Reagan come in and kill any attempts at progress while laying the groundwork for the crises to come...

Here’s how Reagan’s decision to close mental institutions led to the homelessness crisis​

As a psychologist who began practicing nearly 40 years ago, I’ve seen a significant shift in the care of the mentally ill since the mid-1980s — and it hasn’t been for the better. After the deinstitutionalization movement began in California in the 1960s, many state mental health hospitals closed, forcing many folks who needed a lot of care onto the streets. Without those facilities, many mentally ill people ended up in jails and prisons which are not set up to provide safe, compassionate care for brain illnesses. But in 1981, when President Ronald Reagan deinstitutionalized the mentally ill and emptied the psychiatric hospitals into so-called “community” clinics, the problem got worse.

Most of those who were deinstitutionalized from the nation’s public psychiatric hospitals were severely mentally ill. Between 50 percent and 60 percent were diagnosed with schizophrenia. The fact that many of these people struggled with various forms of brain dysfunction was not recognized back then. With so many advances in brain science, experts now know that we need to be able to coordinate care in residential facilities, especially if we are housing people at $4,000 per day in a local medical hospital.

People with severe mental illness need to be supported every step of the way. They need to be housed with compassion and supplied with medications, state of the art brain health therapies, nutritious food that supports brain health and extracurricular activities that give them a chance to live meaningful lives. They need to receive quality care with programs like art and music therapy, equestrian therapy, job training and volunteer opportunities to become actively engaged members of society.

We need to recognize that deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill is one of the primary causes of the rise of homelessness all over our country. Do mentally ill homeless people deserve care, dignity, security, compassion and brain growth? We know the answer is yes.

Reagan sold this plan by twisting the groundbreaking Lanterman Act. The purpose of the Act was to enable the developmentally disabled to live in the least restrictive environment that would at the same time keep them safe.

___________________________________________________

Ron DeSantis breaks with Ronald Reagan on mental health institutions​

In Iowa’s Winneshiek County at a Never Back Down tour stop, Ron DeSantis criticized a policy imposed by former President Ronald Reagan.

Asked about gun rights during a Q&A session, DeSantis pivoted to questioning Reagan’s decision in the 1980s to close mental hospitals, which preceded an uptick in the homeless population.

“If you look at what happens at a police station when people are coming into the criminal justice system, there’s a huge percentage of these people that have mental health issues and it’s not even, like, a big shooting that gets all the headlines, just regular crimes. So many people, we used to have more of an institutional process where people would be institutionalized, who couldn’t function in society,” DeSantis said.

“We deinstitutionalized some 30 or 40 years ago. You know, I’m not sure that that was the right thing to do,” DeSantis added. “I see all these homeless in Los Angeles and San Francisco and some of these other liberal cities, they’re doing drugs or doing all this, but their mental health is ultimately the root of this. It’s behavior, it’s not that there’s not enough jobs or anything like that.”

Reagan repealed legislation championed by Jimmy Carter that supported mental health institutions. The Mental Health Systems Act authorized grants to public and nonprofit private community mental health centers for operational costs, with an eye toward helping the “chronically mentally ill.” It arose from work during Carter’s single term, via a presidential commission on mental health.

Reagan instead provided block grants to the states at reduced levels, amounting to 75% to 80% of what they would have gotten under the Carter framework.
Thankfully, Reppublicans are coming around on funding for mental health initiatives - oh wait...

 
  • Like
Reactions: tboonpickens

DW4_2016

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2010
8,420
8,589
113
Driving around the southeastern part of the US I see more and more homeless in the democrat run cities in the sticks of SC and NC. damn democrats.

Statesville, NC
Mt. Airy, NC
Darlington, SC

Homeless in all of them at the freeway exit begging for money. Democrats ruin everything.
 

PalmettoTiger1

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2009
10,617
10,500
113
Driving around the southeastern part of the US I see more and more homeless in the democrat run cities in the sticks of SC and NC. damn democrats.

Statesville, NC
Mt. Airy, NC
Darlington, SC

Homeless in all of them at the freeway exit begging for money. Democrats ruin everything.

I have quit going to Blue cities like LA NY Chicago

Seattle and many more deep blue cities first because I will not wslk in piss and feces from the tent cities in the sidewalks

Nor do I want to be accosted by panhandlers constantly

You go and enjoy it
 

baltimorened

Active member
May 29, 2001
435
357
63
Thankfully, Reppublicans are coming around on funding for mental health initiatives - oh wait...

can't the states solve their own problems? Why is it always the federal government that has to spend money to solve problems. We already know that throwing more federal money at problems doesn't solve them. Let's try something different.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: DW4_2016

DW4_2016

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2010
8,420
8,589
113
I have quit going to Blue cities like LA NY Chicago

Seattle and many more deep blue cities first because I will not wslk in piss and feces from the tent cities in the sidewalks

Nor do I want to be accosted by panhandlers constantly

You go and enjoy it
Ya know, NY just ran out of tourists. Your travel ban is destroying the city.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: dpic73

DW4_2016

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2010
8,420
8,589
113
can't the states solve their own problems? Why is it always the federal government that has to spend money to solve problems. We already know that throwing more federal money at problems doesn't solve them. Let's try something different.
Maybe BBB is more your speed? The bottom line is we had a chance to fix this and it’s clear who doesn’t want it fixed.
 

dpic73

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2005
22,097
17,025
113
can't the states solve their own problems? Why is it always the federal government that has to spend money to solve problems. We already know that throwing more federal money at problems doesn't solve them. Let's try something different.
If the states have to fund their own mental health initiatives, do you think a red state that sucks on the government teet will be able to adequately fund their own programs? Seems like this would create a situation where the outcome would depend on where you were born, no?
 

baltimorened

Active member
May 29, 2001
435
357
63
If the states have to fund their own mental health initiatives, do you think a red state that sucks on the government teet will be able to adequately fund their own programs? Seems like this would create a situation where the outcome would depend on where you were born, no?
well, if the red state saw that as a problem and couldn't send the bill to the federal government, they'd have to prioritize where they spend money.

Most of us do that every month/year as we attempt to balance our income. expenses, savings etc.

From my point of view, just doling about money doesn't seem to be working. Last I read, homelessness is increasing.
 

DW4_2016

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2010
8,420
8,589
113
well, if the red state saw that as a problem and couldn't send the bill to the federal government, they'd have to prioritize where they spend money.

Most of us do that every month/year as we attempt to balance our income. expenses, savings etc.

From my point of view, just doling about money doesn't seem to be working. Last I read, homelessness is increasing.
Is this an act? Are you another of fat piggy’s handles because he squelched on another bet?
 
  • Like
Reactions: tboonpickens

baltimorened

Active member
May 29, 2001
435
357
63
Is this an act? Are you another of fat piggy’s handles because he squelched on another bet?
nope not an act. The federal government is not capable of managing large programs IMO. Look at the stories of fraud, or the 14 year old kicked off Medicaid for some off the wall reason. I firmly believe that you push management to the lowest possible level. Right now, we have states gaming the system on medicaid, federal computers that don't talk to each other - story of woman making too much money to collect Medicaid but has been collecting it for years - so the Medicaid office can't verify income with IRS computers? I look for a tie on the internet and am overwhelmed with tie ads from multiple sites within an hour.

States like Pa depend on the federal government for 40% of it's operational budget, other states are similar. To me that doesn't make sense. States can't plan their school budgets because of delays in federal grants, California is dependent on DoT money for it trains, and the list goes on.

I look at the entire budget process - we haven't had a federal budget in years, just omnibus bills or continuing resolutions - the whole system is dysfunctional. I say, maybe it's time to try something different. Some have said the definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result. To me throwing more money at a problem does not guarantee success
 
Last edited: