<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16px; ">“Our focus is great,” Cohen said. “Our practices are great. Our preparation is great. It’s just one guy who’s killing us, and that’s whoever is on the mound.”</span>
How about this Cohen gem:
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16px; ">“Our focus is great,” Cohen said. “Our practices are great. Our preparation is great. It’s just one guy who’s killing us, and that’s whoever is on the mound.”</span>
But this can't be so! Our resident baseball experts blame it on everything BUT pitching and say that's not the majority of our problem!!! Will they turn on Cohen now that it's obvious that he "doesn't know baseball?"
but so has the fielding. I don't mind comments like this every now and then but at this point in the season if I was him I would make an effort to avoid saying anything like this and just be laying the groundwork for next season.
there's a fine line to being a hardass coach that players respect or just being a dick. We have lost 12 straight. Take some of the blame Cohen.
Could be bad news for the guy that recruited and coaches the guys on the mound.
Maybe we can hire LSU's pitching coach. He's real popular on Tiger Rant right now.
Hell, we win even one game this coming weekend, we might could get Manieri.
Maybe we can hire LSU's pitching coach. He's real popular on Tiger Rant right now.
Hell, we win even one game this coming weekend, we might could get Manieri.
brantleyjones said:
But:
1. I thought the same thing about the comment when I read it. It sounds like it's more directed at the pitching coach than the pitchers themselves. I can't really blame Cohen to be honest with you. What would we have done had Bowen's head not been 17 up and had Routt been healthy/not had his mechanics messed with? Cohen might not be on the hotseat. Am I the only one that thinks the scapegoat card is about to be played in a week after reading that?
2. I was talking to one of my buddies tonight. I said, ya know- the way things are going with Cohen, and the way the bottom has fallen out at LSU, we might just end up with Manieri after all. I also said that it probably wouldn't happen, but if I was Stricklin, you better believe that I would inquire about it.
i think he's got till year 4.....we all know next year is gonna be another freshmen team. the 2010 signing class is gonna have to put in a lot of innings as well.. Hope this class is great, not good. For Cohen's sake. Year 4 it's win, or ride off into the sunset.
We have not shown ANY improvement at all since he took over. Next year, he will have 2 of his recruiting classes on the field in a sport where if you're worth a **** you're gone after 3 years anyway. He doesn't have to get us to a super regional or anything like that next year, but he damn well needs to show SOME improvement. I know Polk left the cupboard empty, but there's still no excuse to be this bad in year 2.
as summarized by Catvet:
Jim was interviewing AD Scott Stricklin. To summarize--recruiting is the lifeblood of college baseball, and with the job Cohen and staff are doing, they are going to get the time they need to turn this around. I personally expect next year to be another rough ride, but 2012 will be the year I expect regionals and a deep run at Hoover.
I didnt know Strickland was at Kentucky when Cohen was there. No way he doesnt get 4 years, especially being a former player
Jim was interviewing AD Scott Stricklin. To summarize--recruiting is the lifeblood of college baseball, and with the job Cohen and staff are doing, they are going to get the time they need to turn this around. I personally expect next year to be another rough ride, but 2012 will be the year I expect regionals and a deep run at Hoover.
I didnt know Strickland was at Kentucky when Cohen was there. No way he doesnt get 4 years, especially being a former player
Yeah, don't worry about it, although we only made one more error this weekend than Vandy, errors were probably responsible for 15 of their 40 runs. Our range (which was terrible with Shepard in center all weekend) was probably to blame for 10 more runs. So by my calculations and my keen observation of what an earned run should actually be, only 15 of their 40 runs were really earned. That's not too bad, pitching's ok.
In all seriousness though, Todd was right in his 2:30 am diatribe. We're pitching pretty much ALL freshmen, what can you expect? They've hit a wall, lost confidence, and just aren't ready physically or mentally to handle this long of a season.
But we have to continue to throw them out there b/c we don't have anyone else, even if it ruins them. On one hand, they're getting experience, on the other hand, I'm worried that it might hurt them, much like throwing a freshman QB to the wolves w/ a bad OL and playing him before he's ready.
At any rate, I'm on board for keeping Thompson just b/c we haven't had enough time to evaluate him yet. By next year we'll have a much clearer picture of how he develops multiple guys in their second year of SEC play.
In all seriousness though, Todd was right in his 2:30 am diatribe. We're pitching pretty much ALL freshmen, what can you expect? They've hit a wall, lost confidence, and just aren't ready physically or mentally to handle this long of a season.
But we have to continue to throw them out there b/c we don't have anyone else, even if it ruins them. On one hand, they're getting experience, on the other hand, I'm worried that it might hurt them, much like throwing a freshman QB to the wolves w/ a bad OL and playing him before he's ready.
At any rate, I'm on board for keeping Thompson just b/c we haven't had enough time to evaluate him yet. By next year we'll have a much clearer picture of how he develops multiple guys in their second year of SEC play.
praised his player, people come on here bitching about how "he's not being realistic!" So which is it? Is he throwing his players under the bus, or being realistic?
that we could have 1 freshman with a sub-7 conference ERA. But that didn't happen. Teams are hitting at least .320 against all of our freshmen except Bracewell.
Freshmen can throw better than this. Can this large number? No, but you would think a couple would help. Its like we are saying "b/c there are so many freshmen, its okay that virtually none of them are producing".
I hope they prove me wrong.
Freshmen can throw better than this. Can this large number? No, but you would think a couple would help. Its like we are saying "b/c there are so many freshmen, its okay that virtually none of them are producing".
I hope they prove me wrong.
I
I let the dawgs out
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All the rumors that have been passed around about transfers are simply not true either. The players don't hate Cohen. An outmanned team, with key injuries, has simply taken a beating in a tough tough league. If we want to harp on the pitching injuries, I think there is merit to that. With or without Butch Thompson, Cohen will have this bunch winning soon.
but I was listening to the interview that Jim Ellis had with Cohen before the Sunday game and he said that the Freshmen staff that we have right now are going through the physical part of the game --they are just going to try to throw strikes. He said that the more experienced pitchers in the league that are having success have moved from the 'just wanting to throw strikes' to changing speeds and working both sides of the plate to set up thier pitches--it has become a mental game.
patdog said:
than acting like it's not a factor at all. As I have said, our problems are more than just pitching and defense.
I'm much more worried about what I've been hearing about our throwing routines and also the injuries to Routt and Bowen than our team ERA.
But we're only making 0.5 errors per game more than the SEC average in conference games. An error equals about 3/4 of a run on average, so our defense is costing us only about 0.4 unearned runs per game. If you double that to account for lack of range, that's still only 0.8 runs per game our defense is costing us.
Compare that to our pitching. The SEC composite ERA in conference games is 5.73. Ours is 9.11. Our pitching is costing us over 3 runs per game. I'm not happy at all about the defense, but to say our defensive problems even begin to compare to our pitching problems is ridiculous.</p>
Compare that to our pitching. The SEC composite ERA in conference games is 5.73. Ours is 9.11. Our pitching is costing us over 3 runs per game. I'm not happy at all about the defense, but to say our defensive problems even begin to compare to our pitching problems is ridiculous.</p>
He said he only hired Thompson to get some good recruits in here, and then he planned on hiring a real pitching coach to develop them.
...or maybe I had too much pork fried rice.
...or maybe I had too much pork fried rice.
you're comparing us to what the league gives up on an average. It just doesn't always work that way. Sometimes it does- and that's why there's an average. You have a guy like a Pomeranz, and that one error isn't as big because he can strike out the side. But you add a crappy defense to a crappy pitching staff, and then you've really got problems. That average doesn't quantify the runs that are given up because our pitchers have to stay out there longer, or because they have to be finer with their pitches because runners are on. Freshmen especially are going to be even more susceptible to falling apart when they lack confidence in their defense. At it's not just defense mind you- it's also the fact that if we get behind we utterly choke on offense. It's just pitiful all the way around. And on top of it all, you have a pitching coach that has questionable methods. You can't just look at a team and say, well that's one error, so that's one more runner a game, big deal. It goes deeper than that.
I remember someone posted our teams FIP- fielding independent pitching- and if I read the numbers correctly, and I don't use FIP very much, so I may be mistaken, but if I understood the numbers correctly, our pitchers had very good FIP's. If that is the case, I'd say it's very encouraging for the future.
And yes, I know MLB uses stats all the time, it's a stat driven sport. But one of the big reasons that MLB GM's and owners use stats is so that they can figure out how much to pay- or not to pay their players. And believe me, if they can rationalize a way to save money, they will.
Basically, all I'm saying is blame people for things that they should be blamed for- injuries, poor pitching regimens, and yes poor performance, but also be objective as well and look at all the facts.
I remember someone posted our teams FIP- fielding independent pitching- and if I read the numbers correctly, and I don't use FIP very much, so I may be mistaken, but if I understood the numbers correctly, our pitchers had very good FIP's. If that is the case, I'd say it's very encouraging for the future.
And yes, I know MLB uses stats all the time, it's a stat driven sport. But one of the big reasons that MLB GM's and owners use stats is so that they can figure out how much to pay- or not to pay their players. And believe me, if they can rationalize a way to save money, they will.
Basically, all I'm saying is blame people for things that they should be blamed for- injuries, poor pitching regimens, and yes poor performance, but also be objective as well and look at all the facts.
I really would. I would absolutetly love for you to show me something like that. Because until I see it, I'm calling complete ******** on any kind of stat or measurment you or anyone else can come up shows that our pitching staff doesn't suck ***.
As for utterly choking on offense when we get behind, we're averaging over 7 runs per game in our 12-game SEC losing streak. That's enough to win some games no matter when the runs are scored.
As for utterly choking on offense when we get behind, we're averaging over 7 runs per game in our 12-game SEC losing streak. That's enough to win some games no matter when the runs are scored.
and I realize you said you don't use it so Im just noting. Its a terrible stat.
I know you nor I would ever walk into a legitimate baseball discussion and say "hey, our pitching really isn't as bad as it looks if your disregard all the singles, doubles and triples we give up" We would get laughed out of the room.
It assumes that b/c some hits are a result of poor range then hits aren't a good indicator of a pitcher's ability.
I think our range problems are mostly in one corner outfield and at 2B. I don't think Ogden is below average range wise. And I don't think Vickerson's range is that bad---he is just a terrible fielder which is accounted for in errors.
I know you nor I would ever walk into a legitimate baseball discussion and say "hey, our pitching really isn't as bad as it looks if your disregard all the singles, doubles and triples we give up" We would get laughed out of the room.
It assumes that b/c some hits are a result of poor range then hits aren't a good indicator of a pitcher's ability.
I think our range problems are mostly in one corner outfield and at 2B. I don't think Ogden is below average range wise. And I don't think Vickerson's range is that bad---he is just a terrible fielder which is accounted for in errors.
What Pat posted was a fact, and it's hard to argue with. The stat he referenced takes into account how many runs or unearned runs are scored for every error a team makes. You can say that's not always the case, but it takes every case for every team into account. Sure it's not a rule, but it's as close to one as you're going to get.
For you guys to try and say we are a team that doesn't pitch as well after errors and they affect us worse than any other team makes it seem like you're reaching to defend our coaching and pitching staff.
Also, no one here was saying defense wasn't a problem, you trying to act like people are saying that is what's inaccurate. What is laughable is saying that defense is twice as big of a problem as pitching like Todd did yesterday. Listen to Cohen, at least he sees what the problem is.
On range, I think ours is pretty good w/ Shepard, Ogden, and Frost up the middle. Below average defensive players that are good hitters are the norm in LF (not to compare Duffy to Manny Ramirez, but that theory applies) Some of our defense can be blamed on pitching as well and that's never considered. How often do our pitchers miss bats compared to other staffs, how many more hard hit balls and tough plays do we have to face than other defenses? That can't be quantified either.
For you guys to try and say we are a team that doesn't pitch as well after errors and they affect us worse than any other team makes it seem like you're reaching to defend our coaching and pitching staff.
Also, no one here was saying defense wasn't a problem, you trying to act like people are saying that is what's inaccurate. What is laughable is saying that defense is twice as big of a problem as pitching like Todd did yesterday. Listen to Cohen, at least he sees what the problem is.
On range, I think ours is pretty good w/ Shepard, Ogden, and Frost up the middle. Below average defensive players that are good hitters are the norm in LF (not to compare Duffy to Manny Ramirez, but that theory applies) Some of our defense can be blamed on pitching as well and that's never considered. How often do our pitchers miss bats compared to other staffs, how many more hard hit balls and tough plays do we have to face than other defenses? That can't be quantified either.
Yea, because all SEC teams get swept by Directional Louisiana and lose to Jackson State and TAMU-Corpus Christi.
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So, tell me how does it feel to have your head that far up your ***?
I
I let the dawgs out
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I'm starting to think 95% of this board has not ever put on a uniform.
After losing two tough games against superior competition, it's easy to see how we could drop a game to TAMCC. As pointed out a hundred times, SELA is 39-14 and headed for regionals. Jackson State we should never lose to, but it's not incomprehensible after playing a hellish schedule like I pointed out earlier.
The bottom of the SEC always has it rough, in any sport. Other conferences are always gunning for you because you're an SEC team. But you can't get up for them because you're up for the big boys. Vicious cycle.
All I'm saying is, is that if you want to spin every loss into a program destroying hurricane of negativity, I can also spin it positively and make every excuse in the world as to why it happened.</p>
After losing two tough games against superior competition, it's easy to see how we could drop a game to TAMCC. As pointed out a hundred times, SELA is 39-14 and headed for regionals. Jackson State we should never lose to, but it's not incomprehensible after playing a hellish schedule like I pointed out earlier.
The bottom of the SEC always has it rough, in any sport. Other conferences are always gunning for you because you're an SEC team. But you can't get up for them because you're up for the big boys. Vicious cycle.
All I'm saying is, is that if you want to spin every loss into a program destroying hurricane of negativity, I can also spin it positively and make every excuse in the world as to why it happened.</p>
I'm tired of arguing about this ****. Our pitching sucks. Our defense sucks. They suck equally as bad. Both are hovering around the 200 mark nationally. This has been like arguing which midget is taller or what turd stinks worse. I'm done with this topic.