How awesome is our baseball team going to be?
- Thread starter Mstate
- Start date
Those are not realistic expectations. Are they realistically possible? Sure. However, the SEC is probably stronger, top to bottom, in baseball than it is in football, so to expect to be SEC champs is similar to expecting to be the best team in the nation. Quit expecting, and just enjoy the season.
Potential for a national seed and Omaha......
....but I will be happy with just making the postseason, as I am with every sport. I do think/hope that this is the year we bust through and host a regional again.
Great thing about it is, Cohen not near finished. When he was recruiting the guys that are starting now, we were mesmerized especially compared to Polk's recruiting. The guys he's recruiting RIGHT NOW are even better than our those. He's back to recruiting like the 1994 signing class, which really was the last true high level class we signed until Cohen.
....but I will be happy with just making the postseason, as I am with every sport. I do think/hope that this is the year we bust through and host a regional again.
Great thing about it is, Cohen not near finished. When he was recruiting the guys that are starting now, we were mesmerized especially compared to Polk's recruiting. The guys he's recruiting RIGHT NOW are even better than our those. He's back to recruiting like the 1994 signing class, which really was the last true high level class we signed until Cohen.
Yes - in all likelihood somewhere between #5 and #8 IMO.
Bad approach to ever take. Anything can happen in baseball. That said, we should be at minimal hosting a regional this year.
It's about 10x easier to make it to Omaha than to do this. That said, I'd prefer this one to Omaha. Been 24 years since we last won the regular-season SEC title. Been back to Omaha 4 times since then.
Very excited. Relieved to FINALLY be back to where we expect to be as MSU baseball and pumped about the future. The sky is the limit. But I'm setting expectations at simply having a clear progression which IMO means hosting a regional.
We get UK, Florida, Vandy, and South Carolina in the cross-division... meaning we got screwed on the schedule this year by missing Tennessee and Mizzou -- and to a smaller extent UGA. This is the 3rd of 4th year in a row we've been hammered in this regard. Eventually, we're going to miss a couple of the powerhouses in the east, and that's going to give us a(better) chance to make some serious noise...
Realistically, not hosting a Regional is a disappointing season.
We might have the best bullpen in college baseball. The key is starting pitching. Can Graveman be our ace? And can guys like E. Mitchell, Lindgren, and Woodruff play to their potential?
Our hitting should be much improved. Omaha is certainly possible. Even moreso than last year when I thought we had a great chance.
We might have the best bullpen in college baseball. The key is starting pitching. Can Graveman be our ace? And can guys like E. Mitchell, Lindgren, and Woodruff play to their potential?
Our hitting should be much improved. Omaha is certainly possible. Even moreso than last year when I thought we had a great chance.
Sad to say, this is a very true point by Engie. I expect a great season, but the schedule will be a drag on the record.
How is it reasonably expected? We haven't won 20 conference games since our last title in 1989. We won 19 games once at the end of Polk I and haven't topped 17 since.
Sure hosting a regional is a reasonable expectation with a shot at the CWS, but talk of the SEC championship and national seeds is a bit premature since we have never accomplished either in the modern era of SEC baseball. Hell, we've never finished better than 3rd in the 12 team SEC.
It would be great, but I think those are just slightly lofty expectations coming off losing a 1st round pitcher and having absolutely no power hitters at this point.
Sure hosting a regional is a reasonable expectation with a shot at the CWS, but talk of the SEC championship and national seeds is a bit premature since we have never accomplished either in the modern era of SEC baseball. Hell, we've never finished better than 3rd in the 12 team SEC.
It would be great, but I think those are just slightly lofty expectations coming off losing a 1st round pitcher and having absolutely no power hitters at this point.
Prepare to have your mind blown on this part...
The rest of your post, I mostly agree with.
Agreed engie! Rea had slimmed down and added muscle and I expect
Renfro to finally put up the numbers we've been expecting! Plus, I think Darrell Norris will put up some good numbers this year! The pitching staff is going to be fine! If Mitchell can consistently throw strikes we could be very, very good again on the hill again!
Renfro to finally put up the numbers we've been expecting! Plus, I think Darrell Norris will put up some good numbers this year! The pitching staff is going to be fine! If Mitchell can consistently throw strikes we could be very, very good again on the hill again!
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It's reasonably expected because the guy blasted the original post and didn't offer his own opinion. What about a top 10 preseason ranking? If not SEC championship, then where are we looking overall and in the West? Can we advance to Omaha? What is the team lacking? Strengths?
There's a fine line between "realistic expectations" and "realistically possible", the latter being a tautology. I was being sarcastic about his post.
Welcome to the party. Happy post #3.
There's a fine line between "realistic expectations" and "realistically possible", the latter being a tautology. I was being sarcastic about his post.
Welcome to the party. Happy post #3.
We have a chance to be pretty good
I'm thinking more like top 15. I saw where Kendall Rogers said we were the third or fourth best team in the SEC.
If we win 20 SEC games, we may win the SEC. Or come awfully close to it. 20-10 is an outstanding record for the best team in the SEC- whether that's LSU, Florida, us or whomever.
The injuries we had last year hurt us more than anything because our young hitters went from learning to rehabbing in a lot of cases. No doubt that hurt our production and it forced us to play some guys more than we should have.
The difference in this team compared to Cohen's others is it's the first that is made up of veteran players that he recruited out of high school- as opposed to JUCO or Polk's players.
Hosting a regional is a very reasonable goal- again, I think we would have done so last year had we not been decimated with injuries. The only real questions we have right now are who is in the weekend rotation, second base, and how do we find ways for our four outfielders- Renfroe, CT, Robson, and Demarcus- to get on the field?
I'm thinking more like top 15. I saw where Kendall Rogers said we were the third or fourth best team in the SEC.
If we win 20 SEC games, we may win the SEC. Or come awfully close to it. 20-10 is an outstanding record for the best team in the SEC- whether that's LSU, Florida, us or whomever.
The injuries we had last year hurt us more than anything because our young hitters went from learning to rehabbing in a lot of cases. No doubt that hurt our production and it forced us to play some guys more than we should have.
The difference in this team compared to Cohen's others is it's the first that is made up of veteran players that he recruited out of high school- as opposed to JUCO or Polk's players.
Hosting a regional is a very reasonable goal- again, I think we would have done so last year had we not been decimated with injuries. The only real questions we have right now are who is in the weekend rotation, second base, and how do we find ways for our four outfielders- Renfroe, CT, Robson, and Demarcus- to get on the field?
I'm with you Todd on everything you said...
Another thing worth fairly noting is that every single year so far under Cohen, we have been TREMENDOUSLY underrated in the preseason. I don't necessarily think that's going to be the case this year(Rogers and Fitt both picked us for Omaha next year), but it is worth noting anyway...
In 2011 we were picked last in the west(coaches) - we finished 2nd.
in 2012 we were picked 5th in the west(coaches) - we finished 2nd.
It will be an injustice if we are ranked outside the top 12 in the preseason given what we returned compared to other top teams.
That said, our schedule is brutal. The only 2 SEC teams that we play that won't either be ranked(or highly receiving votes) in the preseason are the 2 Alabama schools. Otherwise, we play 8 ranked teams. Here's the schedule(with final ranking from last year):
#11 LSU
@ #19 UK
@ #3 Ark
#6 FLA
@ #18 aTm
Auburn
@ #25 Vandy
Al
@ OM
#2 USCe
Of these, it's highly likely OM is also ranked in the preseason. I think the SEC gets either 9 or 10 teams in the preseason top 30...
Another thing worth fairly noting is that every single year so far under Cohen, we have been TREMENDOUSLY underrated in the preseason. I don't necessarily think that's going to be the case this year(Rogers and Fitt both picked us for Omaha next year), but it is worth noting anyway...
In 2011 we were picked last in the west(coaches) - we finished 2nd.
in 2012 we were picked 5th in the west(coaches) - we finished 2nd.
It will be an injustice if we are ranked outside the top 12 in the preseason given what we returned compared to other top teams.
That said, our schedule is brutal. The only 2 SEC teams that we play that won't either be ranked(or highly receiving votes) in the preseason are the 2 Alabama schools. Otherwise, we play 8 ranked teams. Here's the schedule(with final ranking from last year):
#11 LSU
@ #19 UK
@ #3 Ark
#6 FLA
@ #18 aTm
Auburn
@ #25 Vandy
Al
@ OM
#2 USCe
Of these, it's highly likely OM is also ranked in the preseason. I think the SEC gets either 9 or 10 teams in the preseason top 30...
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I can't see Ole Miss being ranked. Their pitching could be real good, but they'll struggle to score runs.
If Norris is healthy, doesn't he get the nod at 3rd, therefore leaving Britton
and Frost battling for the nod at second? I know Henderson can play there as well and the OF appears to be crowded!
and Frost battling for the nod at second? I know Henderson can play there as well and the OF appears to be crowded!
I think we are starting to earn respect
We have to do it on the field. LT definitely did us no favors with the schedule, but it may actually benefit us as far as hosting because it will help our RPI. Non-conference, we play Samford, USM, Ole Miss, Purdue (won 37 games and is a Northern school, which will make the selection committee happy), Memphis on the road (Autozone Park), Austin Peay has made regionals the past two years, and Central Arkansas is a Sun Belt team, which is usually a fairly high RPI baseball conference.
We have to do it on the field. LT definitely did us no favors with the schedule, but it may actually benefit us as far as hosting because it will help our RPI. Non-conference, we play Samford, USM, Ole Miss, Purdue (won 37 games and is a Northern school, which will make the selection committee happy), Memphis on the road (Autozone Park), Austin Peay has made regionals the past two years, and Central Arkansas is a Sun Belt team, which is usually a fairly high RPI baseball conference.
Its so refreshing
to be looking forward for the start of baseball in mid-December rather than late February
to be looking forward for the start of baseball in mid-December rather than late February
I've said it once and I'll say it aGAIN: If either Frost or Britton is the primary starter at 2B this season, aside from injury reasons, Cohen should be committed. We know they both suck. Don't forget about the JUCO kid, Detz, we signed. Hopefully he'll be the answer to the black hole that's been 2B under Cohen.
Look for Brett Pirtle and Kyle Hann at second base. Pirtle is a JUCO player that had the best fall of the second basemen. Hann is a freshman from Canada.
As far as Demarcus- he will figure into the DH equation since we have more depth and we now have a RH hitting option to compliment Trey Porter who will be our LH hitting DH. That was something we lacked last year that got overlooked. Porter's numbers may be down because he will get less at bats, but he actually may be more productive as a player if you graded it out. Porter should get better match-ups next year.
His philosophy will always be the same
But I think for the first time, he will have the balance throughout the lineup that he wants. Cohen has been accused (can't think of a better word so don't take offense) of being an all small ball guy- but then you look at who we have been recruiting- Renfroe, Rea, Flair, Daniel Garner- and then you look at the players we just signed or have committed such as Joey Swinarski, Luke Alexander, Brent Rooker, Trent Simpson, Gavin Collins, and etc. Those are power hitters.
When Cohen was at UK- they were one of the top power hitting teams in the SEC. But they also bunted a lot, AND they stole a lot of bases and were very aggressive. That last word is what Cohen's philosophy really is. Aggressive. What we saw at UK is what Cohen wants us to be- after all, it was his idea to bring the fences in. Oh yeah- and they got plunked a lot.
In baseball, like probably any other sport- you can only do what your players can do. I think the reason we bunted a lot was because of our youth and our injuries. Power is something that is developed- and I believe that power hitters that are better hitters will hit more home runs in general. Look at Babe Ruth's averages- and he was a guy that at the time struck out a lot. Conversely, look at Rob Deer's averages and home run totals. I believe he would have been a better and more dangerous power hitter if he was a better hitter to start with. Wes Rea I think could hit 15 home runs this year, as could Hunter Renfroe- however, they had a lot of trouble with breaking balls last year and were learning how to hit. Now, they have experience and in Wes's case he is healthy.
Last year, I believe we would have seen a lot more stolen bases and hit and runs and probably less bunting had we been healthier. We were very thin and we were at a point where we couldn't risk any more injuries- and a slide into second is a very common place where baseball injuries occur. Not to mention, we had several players that had leg injuries and that obviously slowed them down. If you remember, we called a couple of hit and runs and ended up hitting into triple plays and again, I think that was due in part to inexperience on us. After that, I think Cohen kind of scrapped that for the most part.
So, that left us with bunting and getting plunked. And while that is certainly not ideal, we were able to manage to scrape together enough runs to win 40 games. And a huge thanks to our pitching staff that really didn't need a lot of support. Last year would have been difficult to manage for any hitting coach- youth with lots of injuries.
All of that is to say this- we will be better offensively because we have more experience, I think we will see more power, and I think we will also see more stolen bases and hitting and running. So long as we stay healthy. We may bunt less, but I don't know that it will be something that is a really noticeable difference, and I'm not even sure that statistically we will go down that much. Regardless, we will be aggressive.
But I think for the first time, he will have the balance throughout the lineup that he wants. Cohen has been accused (can't think of a better word so don't take offense) of being an all small ball guy- but then you look at who we have been recruiting- Renfroe, Rea, Flair, Daniel Garner- and then you look at the players we just signed or have committed such as Joey Swinarski, Luke Alexander, Brent Rooker, Trent Simpson, Gavin Collins, and etc. Those are power hitters.
When Cohen was at UK- they were one of the top power hitting teams in the SEC. But they also bunted a lot, AND they stole a lot of bases and were very aggressive. That last word is what Cohen's philosophy really is. Aggressive. What we saw at UK is what Cohen wants us to be- after all, it was his idea to bring the fences in. Oh yeah- and they got plunked a lot.
In baseball, like probably any other sport- you can only do what your players can do. I think the reason we bunted a lot was because of our youth and our injuries. Power is something that is developed- and I believe that power hitters that are better hitters will hit more home runs in general. Look at Babe Ruth's averages- and he was a guy that at the time struck out a lot. Conversely, look at Rob Deer's averages and home run totals. I believe he would have been a better and more dangerous power hitter if he was a better hitter to start with. Wes Rea I think could hit 15 home runs this year, as could Hunter Renfroe- however, they had a lot of trouble with breaking balls last year and were learning how to hit. Now, they have experience and in Wes's case he is healthy.
Last year, I believe we would have seen a lot more stolen bases and hit and runs and probably less bunting had we been healthier. We were very thin and we were at a point where we couldn't risk any more injuries- and a slide into second is a very common place where baseball injuries occur. Not to mention, we had several players that had leg injuries and that obviously slowed them down. If you remember, we called a couple of hit and runs and ended up hitting into triple plays and again, I think that was due in part to inexperience on us. After that, I think Cohen kind of scrapped that for the most part.
So, that left us with bunting and getting plunked. And while that is certainly not ideal, we were able to manage to scrape together enough runs to win 40 games. And a huge thanks to our pitching staff that really didn't need a lot of support. Last year would have been difficult to manage for any hitting coach- youth with lots of injuries.
All of that is to say this- we will be better offensively because we have more experience, I think we will see more power, and I think we will also see more stolen bases and hitting and running. So long as we stay healthy. We may bunt less, but I don't know that it will be something that is a really noticeable difference, and I'm not even sure that statistically we will go down that much. Regardless, we will be aggressive.
Frost has proven to be a talentless hack with a softball arm. Britton was a frosh and while he struggled showed some flashes of talent. We can only wait and see if he can make the jump, kind of like Frazier did. Cohen will start the best option at 2B unless he starts Frosty the Error Man
Do you REALLY think that Britton and Frost won't play 2B? If anything, Pirtle and Hann are the ones on the outside looking in. I know where you get your info. I see the practices and read the reports too. I also just about know the mind of Cohen by now too. If the opening day starter at 2B is not either Frost or Britton I'll come back here and say I was wrong.
We SHOULD be playing a hard schedule in baseball. And LT really had nothing to do with it. Some of you that think LT is out to get us baffle me. We are a talented team, no excuses to not play a tough schedule. 2009-2012, yes, I can understand it.
man our expectations raise fast as a program...
2 years ago nobody really believed in Cohen ...couple of quotes that preseason were I wish he would show me something, Why did he not replace Butch
Last year everyone was pissed he bunted so much and we couldn't string together any hits. As we hit like .220 as a team and less with RISP. We lost Stratton to the 1st round. We lost Routt and Reed. ...quotes from last season Cohen is a terrible hitting coach. Patdog: explain to me why our hitting will be so much better
We win the SEC T. Couple of guys show out in lesser fall leagues ...Now some people expect us to go to Omaha? ...WOW!
My expectation is to make the post season.
Be hot and ready when we get there.
Be in every single game when you lace them up.
Do not lose to teams you should not lose to in the non conf.
Continue to develop the hitting and young pitching.
2 years ago nobody really believed in Cohen ...couple of quotes that preseason were I wish he would show me something, Why did he not replace Butch
Last year everyone was pissed he bunted so much and we couldn't string together any hits. As we hit like .220 as a team and less with RISP. We lost Stratton to the 1st round. We lost Routt and Reed. ...quotes from last season Cohen is a terrible hitting coach. Patdog: explain to me why our hitting will be so much better
We win the SEC T. Couple of guys show out in lesser fall leagues ...Now some people expect us to go to Omaha? ...WOW!
My expectation is to make the post season.
Be hot and ready when we get there.
Be in every single game when you lace them up.
Do not lose to teams you should not lose to in the non conf.
Continue to develop the hitting and young pitching.
I dont want us to be aggressive just for the sake of being aggressive. Multiple times last season we were bunting Renfroe in the 3rd inning (for an example). Cohen doesn't let the game play out early which led to many low scoring games. We don't realize just how much our pitching carried us last year because offensively we were handcuffing ourselves.
Another example of being over-aggressive last season was our SB problem. Lets take a look at the SEC game stats. We had 7 stolen bases, but were caught stealing 14 times. That is HORRIBLE. We were last in SB, but 4th in caught stealing.
I don't have to bring out the stats for "man on first, no out" bunt scenarios again, the whole board should know the awful differences by now. When a team is as ****** at hitting as we were, you cant give away outs. Period. Especially in the college game.
To be honest you should really never give away outs before the 7th, it's just not good baseball. When playing for one run, late in a game, the only beneficial bunt should be 1st and 2nd 0 outs. The fact that Cohen had a top power AND bunt team strikes me as dumb. If you have all this power, why give away outs and potential runners. There is such a thing as over managing and Cohen proved it last season. Its all a matter of proportionality and looking at the statistical margins to achieve maximum output. We did not achieve maximum output from the offensive personnel last season because we handcuffed ourselves due to Cohen. That has to change.
Defensively we'll be solid just due to Frost not playing (he 17ing better not be playing)
Pitching depth means that we actually can match our strength of last season even losing Stratton because we should have 3 solid weekend guys and not lose much during the midweek.
I expect to host a regional this season, our offense should be able to naturally negate the Cohenisms where last season we couldn't. Mostly this will come from increased power and our brand new left field. Like I said earlier, if he realized his mistakes from last year and chills out a little on giving away outs and not being wise on when and when not to steal (33% in SEC play) then watch out Omaha.
It's not my personal expectation(I expect to host a regional), but it is reasonable for people here to have this goal this year. We are back on that level. Why you spent a couple of paragraphs trying to dismiss it is the real WOW part? Every writer at the forefront of college baseball are projecting us into Omaha right now....
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/college/postseason/college-world-series/2012/2613617.html
http://www.perfectgame.org/Articles/View.aspx?article=7325
I'm going off what is projected in the preseason by Kendall Rogers and Aaron Fitt. They both expect OM to be a Super-Regional team this coming year -- meaning they will likely vote them inside the top 20 in the preseason. These are the 2 guys that all the rest of the poll voters get their information from -- meaning you can generally bet the preseason poll on what these two guys say.
There is a better chance that USM is in the preseason poll than OM being out of it IMO. Keep in mind we aren't guaranteed to be talking 25 teams here. Collegiate Baseball ranks 30. NCBWA 35.