Hurley would have been fired at UK before ever winning a champ

[JwUKFan11]

UK has to start acting like UK if we want to return to an elite program. Allowing a 3rd tier AD to hire a coach who shouldn't have been considered after getting slapped in the face by another coach that shouldn't have been considered is nowhere near elite. Allowing Cal to punk us when he walked away isn't elite. And whiney baby fans who turn on a coach early on, insult his religion and talk about stalking his wife and daughters online sure as Hell isn't elite.we have been elite in the past, but we are no more elite now than he Dallas Cowboys

No where close. You don't even sound like a UK fan. The Cowboys last SB appearance and win was 1995. UK had an appearance in 2014 and win in 2012. Maybe Indiana's last title in 1987 is a better comparison.

You also bring up random fan comments as if that is a reflection of the results the coaches are having. Bottom line is Pope is terrible and always has been and was hired by a terrible AD. Anybody that thinks differently that there is hope in either of the 2 is an idiot.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

The thing is at the end of the day Hurley has two titles to fall back on.
I do think it illustrates tho that hey maybe you need more than 2-3 years to turn this thing around.

to me the key thing is are we trending in the right direction?

 

[RunninRichie]

Maybe the worst argument on this board

 

[Vek96]

Year 1: 16-17 (missed tourney)
Year 2: 19-12 (may have missed tourney - COVID)
Year 3: 15-8 (7 seed, lost in first round)
Year 4: 23-10 (5 seed, lost in first round)
Year 5: 31-8 (champ)
Year 6: 37-3 (champ)

To be honest, I'm personally torn on Pope.

• Gets down early in games, seems to be a game preparation issue. It's not just a problem this year or because of injuries.
• Being down 12 or more points in 13 of 19 games against power 4 seems nearly impossible.
• Subbing patterns are terrible.
• Has had some odd interviews, especially after losses
• Incredibly inconsistent game to game (throughout his career, not just here)
• Hasn't proved he can finish better than 5th in his conference
• Has missed out on top recruits and hasn't signed anyone this year (it's still unclear to me if this is a Pope problem or JMI problem or both)
• ...fill in the blank

However, I do think if you give a highly intelligent, highly passionate coach time, especially one that will give everything for the program, he can learn from his mistakes and improve. I get the frustration because I'm incredibly frustrated, and given the choice today, I may opt for a new coach, I'm not sure. I'm far from a sunshine pumper when it comes to Pope.

But at the same time, I do think he has a lot of positives that can translate into championships given time to learn/progress.

• Has proven he can build an elite offense
• He's more passionate about Kentucky than any other coach out there
• Will work his *** off to get better. Will work his *** off to improve his team.
• The type of man and personality you want running your program
• He truly has dealt with an unprecedented amount of injuries, yet still made the s16 last year and has shown he can adapt this year and have some success. We wouldn't be complaining about J. Johnson or Noah playing too much if we had Lowe and/or Kam. We could handle more interior physicality with JQ.

The main point is this:
Look at Hurley's first four years. Fans would've have been far more upset with him than we are with Pope - and now he's now the premier coach. Coach K completely missed the tournament his first 3 years, but they gave him time to come into his own (yes, I know today is different with the transfer portal and one-and-dones. But a 38-47 start, we would have gone nuclear). There's a big list of coaches who had rough starts before winning chips, but their schools gave them the chance to learn and improve. I think Pope can get better, I just hope he does it sooner rather than later.

I'm personally willing to be patient through year 3 if that's what the administration wants to do, but if it's the same story, I'll be begging for a change.

I'd also be good with a change after this year (I just don't think that'll happen)

This is a great post.

Look, I don’t know if Pope will learn, improve, and be the guy. However, I’m with you, let’s give him some more time, and see how he does with a healthy roster.

 

[KyKevin]

The thing is at the end of the day Hurley has two titles to fall back on.
I do think it illustrates tho that hey maybe you need more than 2-3 years to turn this thing around.

to me the key thing is are we trending in the right direction?

I think every true fan would give a coach 2 or 3 bad years for 2 titles. We did try to get Hurley, and rightfully so, I can't stomach the big headed little bastard, but I love his fire coaching. And believe he would have won big at Kentucky. But I think it would have taken him time to do it.

 

[dynastydreamuk]

Like all the other trolls, you make it up as you go along. I have never once said I wanted Pope for 10 years LMAO, and have said a hundred times I wouldn't have considered him and would have hired Pearl. But once our AD hired him, I am not going to ****on him until he gets a fair shake. And if our fanbase does, they make us all look like that same pile of ****

Thats fair points...so you are just saying he deserves 3 or 4 years? Or something. He will get a 3rd year for sure... but I'd say if he has another 10 loss season and 2nd round exit in year 3 or something, we probably part ways like end of Tubby tenure.

I never crapped on him...I've only pointed out the facts. After he beat Cal at Arkansas I told myself I would not complain about anything else this season.

I've mostly been vocal about mitch barnhart because he is the reason we are in this uncertainty. We should have hired Pearl, or been aggressive to get Oats...or he'll even hired pitino for 3 years... there were like 20 people better resume than Pope, its just true.

@MattJones said something on the radio the other day that drove me nuts. He said said after Scott drew it was Pope or Shaka Smart ... I just don't understand that at all.

 

[UKortho]

People gotta stop repeating this 22 million dollars lie there's no way that's what we have lying around to give players at the college level. It doesn't make that kind of money anymore, these guys aren't that recognizable...no chance

Pope didn’t dispute it.

 

[Anony Moose]

Did he reach the Sweet 16 in his first year at any of those” turn arounds”?

Did any of tbose schools have the prior history to lean on of being there 44 times before?

 

[UKCowboys]

No where close. You don't even sound like a UK fan. The Cowboys last SB appearance and win was 1995. UK had an appearance in 2014 and win in 2012. Maybe Indiana's last title in 1987 is a better comparison.

You also bring up random fan comments as if that is a reflection of the results the coaches are having. Bottom line is Pope is terrible and always has been and was hired by a terrible AD. Anybody that thinks differently that there is hope in either of the 2 is an idiot.

Oh okay. Indiana. Troll

 

[UKCowboys]

Maybe the worst argument on this board

Troll

 

[RunninRichie]

Troll

Fool

 

[UKCowboys]

This is a great post.

Look, I don’t know if Pope will learn, improve, and be the guy. However, I’m with you, let’s give him some more time, and see how he does with a healthy roster.

Another good post.

 

[UKCowboys]

Fool

LMAO

 

[UKCowboys]

Thats fair points...so you are just saying he deserves 3 or 4 years? Or something. He will get a 3rd year for sure... but I'd say if he has another 10 loss season and 2nd round exit in year 3 or something, we probably part ways like end of Tubby tenure.

I never crapped on him...I've only pointed out the facts. After he beat Cal at Arkansas I told myself I would not complain about anything else this season.

I've mostly been vocal about mitch barnhart because he is the reason we are in this uncertainty. We should have hired Pearl, or been aggressive to get Oats...or he'll even hired pitino for 3 years... there were like 20 people better resume than Pope, its just true.

@MattJones said something on the radio the other day that drove me nuts. He said said after Scott drew it was Pope or Shaka Smart ... I just don't understand that at all.

That's it. One year with a healthy roster. Of we are banged up again next season, he should have learned from this season and fostered appropriately

 

[Anony Moose]

That's it. One year with a healthy roster. Of we are banged up again next season, he should have learned from this season and fostered appropriately

Why didn't he do that this season after the issues last season?

 

[JwUKFan11]

Oh okay. Indiana. Troll

Says the one making the terrible comparison.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

I think every true fan would give a coach 2 or 3 bad years for 2 titles. We did try to get Hurley, and rightfully so, I can't stomach the big headed little bastard, but I love his fire coaching. And believe he would have won big at Kentucky. But I think it would have taken him time to do it.

Yep he strikes me as the person you absolutely hate if he's on the other sidelines but absolute love if he's on yours lol.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Hurley wouldn't have been hired at UK n 2018 because he didn't have the KSAs to deserver an offer.

In 2024 he sure as hell did.

Pope isn't Hurley. This comparison is retarded but keep on doing it pampers.

 

[Loucatfan30]

Year 1: 16-17 (missed tourney)
Year 2: 19-12 (may have missed tourney - COVID)
Year 3: 15-8 (7 seed, lost in first round)
Year 4: 23-10 (5 seed, lost in first round)
Year 5: 31-8 (champ)
Year 6: 37-3 (champ)

To be honest, I'm personally torn on Pope.

• Gets down early in games, seems to be a game preparation issue. It's not just a problem this year or because of injuries.
• Being down 12 or more points in 13 of 19 games against power 4 seems nearly impossible.
• Subbing patterns are terrible.
• Has had some odd interviews, especially after losses
• Incredibly inconsistent game to game (throughout his career, not just here)
• Hasn't proved he can finish better than 5th in his conference
• Has missed out on top recruits and hasn't signed anyone this year (it's still unclear to me if this is a Pope problem or JMI problem or both)
• ...fill in the blank

However, I do think if you give a highly intelligent, highly passionate coach time, especially one that will give everything for the program, he can learn from his mistakes and improve. I get the frustration because I'm incredibly frustrated, and given the choice today, I may opt for a new coach, I'm not sure. I'm far from a sunshine pumper when it comes to Pope.

But at the same time, I do think he has a lot of positives that can translate into championships given time to learn/progress.

• Has proven he can build an elite offense
• He's more passionate about Kentucky than any other coach out there
• Will work his *** off to get better. Will work his *** off to improve his team.
• The type of man and personality you want running your program
• He truly has dealt with an unprecedented amount of injuries, yet still made the s16 last year and has shown he can adapt this year and have some success. We wouldn't be complaining about J. Johnson or Noah playing too much if we had Lowe and/or Kam. We could handle more interior physicality with JQ.

The main point is this:
Look at Hurley's first four years. Fans would've have been far more upset with him than we are with Pope - and now he's now the premier coach. Coach K completely missed the tournament his first 3 years, but they gave him time to come into his own (yes, I know today is different with the transfer portal and one-and-dones. But a 38-47 start, we would have gone nuclear). There's a big list of coaches who had rough starts before winning chips, but their schools gave them the chance to learn and improve. I think Pope can get better, I just hope he does it sooner rather than later.

I'm personally willing to be patient through year 3 if that's what the administration wants to do, but if it's the same story, I'll be begging for a change.

I'd also be good with a change after this year (I just don't think that'll happen)

The business of NCAA basketball is different now more than any other time. You still have to attract talent and coach but back then it was much harder to build a team from scratch. Now you can either do it or not. And when given 22m to build and this is what you get we should all be ready to move on.

 

[Loucatfan30]

Why does a highly intelligent coach make a stupid decision to give a 7’0 Center millions of dollars, fresh off an ACL tear and expect him to be a major contributor after only 9 months of rehab?

Easy, he does't know what he s doing.

 

[UKJenning]

For every Dan Hurley type of turnaround there’s a million coaches that never turn it around.

This is meaningless.

 

[Loucatfan30]

Big things are coming in year 3 and yes, Pope will get a third year. Things are happening behind the scenes that some here don’t know about yet.

You can bet the administration will do everything it can to prop up Pope just to keep themselves from looking dumb for hiring a coach with such a mediocre track record. They will do the normal fire a couple of asst coaches. Hire a GM to take burden off Pope. Hire a defensive specialist to take burden off Pope. Pay 30M for next years team. Anything to keep them from looking bad but if you have to hide your head coach from coaching and recruiting duties then you probably don't have the right head coach.

 

[Loucatfan30]

Pope has all the resources he wants and the transfer portal. Hurley didn’t have that. Can’t compare the two.

1) $22M is Horseraddish
2) Hurley had actual players on the roster when hired
3) Hurley didnt play in the SEC
4) Hurley didnt lose 3 kids per year in his two best seasons
5) Hurley didnt/doesn't have JMI to block him from getting the top kids

The easy answer is this. Does anyone on this board think if Hurley was here and he got 22M to build his roster that getting beat by UNC, Missouri, Georgia at home and getting embarrassed by Gonzaga, Michigan State and Louisville is how this season would be going right now?

 

[Loucatfan30]

Nothing average about his first season here. What he has done here is all he should be judged by. So year, one bad season...and that season ain't over yet....

One ok season with as many ups as downs but a 6 seed is not a good year. One season with embarrassing results in many of the games the final yet to be determined but trending in a bad way.

 

[Loucatfan30]

That 22 million dollar figure isn’t a lie.

https://amp.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article312461238.html

Kentucky’s $22 Million Payroll Expected to Lead College Basketball for 2025-26

Wildcats outpace the rest of the nation in first season under new NIL rules

sports.yahoo.com

Kentucky reportedly spent $22 million on its basketball roster. Why isn’t it working?

The Athletic spoke with coaches and watched UK's games to assess what Kentucky must do to salvage its still-young season.

www.nytimes.com

KSR Jack Pilgrim stated that not only is it true but that Pope was the one that wanted it out there.

 

[Johnny_Jeepers]

Big things are coming in year 3 and yes, Pope will get a third year. Things are happening behind the scenes that some here don’t know about yet.

 

[Loucatfan30]

UK has to start acting like UK if we want to return to an elite program. Allowing a 3rd tier AD to hire a coach who shouldn't have been considered after getting slapped in the face by another coach that shouldn't have been considered is nowhere near elite. Allowing Cal to punk us when he walked away isn't elite. And whiney baby fans who turn on a coach early on, insult his religion and talk about stalking his wife and daughters online sure as Hell isn't elite.we have been elite in the past, but we are no more elite now than he Dallas Cowboys

We can all agree we definitely are not elite at the AD position(Barnhart). The only person thinking we are elite at AD is probably Pope.

 

[Loucatfan30]

Yea, Cal was pushed out for his last five years falling below what is average for Kentucky, and pope is below that. All pope has done that was better was going one round further in the NCAA but considerably worse record wise and sec finish wise.

That said Cal's last five years, that were below average but you could argue better than Pope for sure.

2024 - 23-10 (13-5) 2nd sec, 1st round
2023 - 22-12 (12-6) 3rd sec, 2nd round
2022 - 26-8 (14-4) 3rd sec, 1st round
2021 - 9-16 (8-9) 8th covid
2020 - 25-6 (15-3) 1st in SEC - ncaa canceled

I dont know why we mention Cal last 5 years when 2020 we were great and I think had there been a tournament would have gone far. Covid broke Cal.

You sir Fail at being a troll. Im sure you want us to keep pope for 10 years, I would to if I was another teams fan. I dont think hubert davis is any good at UNC and hope they keep him.

Did you see Cal in an interview the other day saying how Pope is the right guy for the Ky job. Cal may be a lot of things but he isn't a dummy and he doesn't want to see us with a different guy until maybe he retires.

 

[dynastydreamuk]

Did you see Cal in an interview the other day saying how Pope is the right guy for the Ky job. Cal may be a lot of things but he isn't a dummy and he doesn't want to see us with a different guy until maybe he retires.

Yea i saw that... like when he used to praise Mark fox at Georgia and now ironically Mark Fox is on our staff, go figure.

I was so done with Cal his last four years but had I known mitch was going to gamble with pope I would have said keep Cal for 2 or 3 more years till mitch retires. Problem was Cal had lost everyone and wouldn't have got much NiL Funding and he knew it, hence why he sought to leave

 

[Johnny_Jeepers]

Comparing the situations at UConn pre-COVID vs. the post-portal era of college basketball for a coach hired at Kentucky is borderline apples to oranges.

UConn was coming off back-to-back losing seasons, had fired their head coach for cause with the stink of that and probation hanging over the program, and oh yeah, free agency didn't exist then.

Pope was handed the keys at Kentucky for a program that, yes, hadn't seen postseason success in some time, but had still finished second in the SEC and was a top 20 ranked team, and oh yeah was given the biggest checkbook in college basketball for open free agency. I mean, poor him, right? His first year was average by historical Kentucky standards and this year has been a failure in most ways you want to measure it.

But hey, if you all want to hang your hats on a single example to try and argue that Pope should get 4-5 years (or more lol) to try and figure it out here, have at it. If his name wasn't Mark Pope and he hadn't played at Kentucky a coach with his resume wouldn't have even warranted a sniff of a consideration for coaching Kentucky, and whether you want to admit it or not, that's the truth with a bullet. It's a nostalgia tour that recruits don't give a f about for a coach who is in clearly in over his head. And there are countless examples of where ripping the band-aid off WAS the right move. Hell, do you think Billy G deserved a couple of more years to turn it around? Get real.

 

[Cats4321]

Comparing the situations at UConn pre-COVID vs. the post-portal era of college basketball for a coach hired at Kentucky is borderline apples to oranges.

UConn was coming off back-to-back losing seasons, had fired their head coach for cause with the stink of that and probation hanging over the program, and oh yeah, free agency didn't exist then.

Pope was handed the keys at Kentucky for a program that, yes, hadn't seen postseason success in some time, but had still finished second in the SEC and was a top 20 ranked team, and oh yeah was given the biggest checkbook in college basketball for open free agency. I mean, poor him, right? His first year was average by historical Kentucky standards and this year has been a failure in most ways you want to measure it.

But hey, if you all want to hang your hats on a single example to try and argue that Pope should get 4-5 years (or more lol) to try and figure it out here, have at it. If his name wasn't Mark Pope and he hadn't played at Kentucky a coach with his resume wouldn't have even warranted a sniff of a consideration for coaching Kentucky, and whether you want to admit it or not, that's the truth with a bullet. It's a nostalgia tour that recruits don't give a f about for a coach who is in clearly in over his head. And there are countless examples of where ripping the band-aid off WAS the right move. Hell, do you think Billy G deserved a couple of more years to turn it around? Get real.

That's my biggest complaint. Pope had practically no success as a coach at any level. If he wasn't a former player at UK, then everyone would be reacting differently to the current situation. I like Pope, and this situation isn't his fault (thanks Mitch!), but it doesn't mean we give the guy 4-5 years to prove himself. This was supposed to be the year he proved that he could have success, and it has been a major disappointment so far.

I also think you can tell a great coach almost immediately. It doesn't mean they necessarily win in their first year or two, but you can almost always see signs. Some people just have it, and some don't.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

What's the point you want to make? That Pope is still building toward a similar success and he just needs time? I don't see how it gets better when he had a top 2 budget of all teams and still struck out on multiple players, took and paid an injured one, didn't get any elite talent, and still hasn't signed a player for next year. So where is he building this hope where he deserves many years of below average UK standards.

As far as I know Hurley had guys signed out of high school each year as well. He obviously has a good eye for underrated talent. I’m not sure pope has a great eye for pieces that fit well together yet and he doesn’t even have a guy in the top 100 committed.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

I haven’t heard any Kentucky fans other than UKcowboys say they certainly want Pope more than one more year in a “prove it” situation. I think even the most optimistic of us are struggling with serious doubts about Pope. Signing on for a third year doesn’t mean being 100% certain Pope is the man — at this point, he may or may not be but it doesn’t look promising. He has faced unprecedented injuries and that’s worth giving a mulligan for, especially when his first year (despite flaws) exceeded preseason expectations.

The main issue is that it’s supposed to get better, it appears to be getting worse, especially recruiting wise and we play the same way every game over two years now. Same flaws and issues. Totally new roster.

 

[Loucatfan30]

That's my biggest complaint. Pope had practically no success as a coach at any level. If he wasn't a former player at UK, then everyone would be reacting differently to the current situation. I like Pope, and this situation isn't his fault (thanks Mitch!), but it doesn't mean we give the guy 4-5 years to prove himself. This was supposed to be the year he proved that he could have success, and it has been a major disappointment so far.

I also think you can tell a great coach almost immediately. It doesn't mean they necessarily win in their first year or two, but you can almost always see signs. Some people just have it, and some don't.

Dude we all thought he was having a mental breakdown at several press conferences this year. He has given me no signs he can do this job. If he wasn't a former player he wouldn't have gotten an interview for this job by any intelligent AD.

 

[Loucatfan30]

The main issue is that it’s supposed to get better, it appears to be getting worse, especially recruiting wise and we play the same way every game over two years now. Same flaws and issues. Totally new roster.

Problem next year is it will be virtually same roster.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Problem next year is it will be virtually same roster.

Exactly

 

[Skyguyb27]

Why does a highly intelligent coach make a stupid decision to give a 7’0 Center millions of dollars, fresh off an ACL tear and expect him to be a major contributor after only 9 months of rehab?

Intelligence and common sense are 2 completely different things.

 

[Skyguyb27]

Big things are coming in year 3 and yes, Pope will get a third year. Things are happening behind the scenes that some here don’t know about yet.

Tell us more about these big things.

 

[Loucatfan30]

Intelligence and common sense are 2 completely different things.

I don't think we need a rocket scientist to coach our basketball team. We need common sense, basketball knowledge and someone with a cool factor not a weirdo. This is not revenge of the nerds. You need to appeal to the Jocks and cool kids.

 

[theKybluedude]

Did any of tbose schools have the prior history to lean on of being there 44 times before?

U Conn did. Took Hurley 5 years there. No excuses