I agree with the Auburn fans...............
- Thread starter shsdawg
- Start date
what doesnt add up?
Cecil told us we had to pay to get Cam.
We refused.
We told the SEC - at this point Cam is ineligible to play college football.
Cam goes to Auburn - Did he get paid? One could logically assume but regardless Cam is ineligible.
Two different issues are at hand each of which have to be explained/investigated independently.
Did Auburn pay Cecil?
Did Auburn know Cam was ineligible?
Two outcomes from issue 1
1. Auburn paid - they are 17d
2. Auburn didn't pay - they are clear of issue 1
Two outcomes from issue 2.
1. SEC told Auburn and Auburn said cover it up. Auburn is 17d and the Slive is 17d if it is proven he hep'd Auburn sit on the solicitation.
2. SEC didn't tell anyone and tried to cover it up. - Auburn is clean but Slive is 17d. Auburn still has to vacate their wins.
There are ZERO senarios where Auburn doesn't havve to vacate every game Cam played in. There is physical evidence that exists that makes Cam ineligible.
This is the saga as it relates to Auburn only. This investigation is WAY deeper than just Auburn. Cam wasn't the only player Rogers was "heppin". Any team that has landed a major JUCO or transfer in the last few years needs to be making sure their house is in order.
Cecil told us we had to pay to get Cam.
We refused.
We told the SEC - at this point Cam is ineligible to play college football.
Cam goes to Auburn - Did he get paid? One could logically assume but regardless Cam is ineligible.
Two different issues are at hand each of which have to be explained/investigated independently.
Did Auburn pay Cecil?
Did Auburn know Cam was ineligible?
Two outcomes from issue 1
1. Auburn paid - they are 17d
2. Auburn didn't pay - they are clear of issue 1
Two outcomes from issue 2.
1. SEC told Auburn and Auburn said cover it up. Auburn is 17d and the Slive is 17d if it is proven he hep'd Auburn sit on the solicitation.
2. SEC didn't tell anyone and tried to cover it up. - Auburn is clean but Slive is 17d. Auburn still has to vacate their wins.
There are ZERO senarios where Auburn doesn't havve to vacate every game Cam played in. There is physical evidence that exists that makes Cam ineligible.
This is the saga as it relates to Auburn only. This investigation is WAY deeper than just Auburn. Cam wasn't the only player Rogers was "heppin". Any team that has landed a major JUCO or transfer in the last few years needs to be making sure their house is in order.
Cam has said that he wanted to go to MSU. That was his choice. Cecil asked MSU for $180k to sign Cam. MSU said no. Cam then gets informed by his dad that he will be signing with Auburn. Doesn't make any sense that he would make his son go to a school that he didn't want to unless there was money involved. After Cam signs with Auburn, Cecil's church then has $50k repairs done to it within a short period of time. That is pretty much the timeline. It doesn't take very much common sense to figure out something shady went down. Of course in today's society, common sense isn't very common.
Ah I see. Yes, delusional people are delusional. I would fully agree with them if I were able to block out ALL the facts in the case.shsdawg said:
The money for newtons Church was there in September of 09 long before AU recruited him. Newton said at that time that they had the money in hand to repair the church but it would take a while. the newnan housing authority has been lenient with the Church in getting the building up to code because they have been up front with them and the church had to do it in piece meal fashion as the money became available. SO that part of your scenario does not add up . Newton may have asked for money may not have but it was a month after the meeting with Rogers before AU offered. ROgers himself said he had no contact with the newtons after the shell station. If somebody was offering me a 180K I would call back to check on it. something does not add up about this scenario.
Cecil tried to solicit the funds through Rogers, since he was a MSU alum.
If Cecil tried to solicit funds from AU, which let's face it he most likely did, then he would have had contact with another person, with some connection with Auburn. It all adds up perfectly; the hard part will be proving it. I imagine folks will start "singing" once FBI interrogations start, assuming there will be some. </p>
If Cecil tried to solicit funds from AU, which let's face it he most likely did, then he would have had contact with another person, with some connection with Auburn. It all adds up perfectly; the hard part will be proving it. I imagine folks will start "singing" once FBI interrogations start, assuming there will be some. </p>
..... that is all pure speculation at this point.
The problem now is that there are four people, three of which were in the room and the other may or may not have had direct communication with Cecil, who are all telling the same story about Cecil - and they all have they lawyers present and are in the process of meeting with the authorities, from the NCAA all the way to the FBI.
I find it highly unlikely that something didn't happen at this point based on those facts - it seems as though theobjective observer would agree.
The problem now is that there are four people, three of which were in the room and the other may or may not have had direct communication with Cecil, who are all telling the same story about Cecil - and they all have they lawyers present and are in the process of meeting with the authorities, from the NCAA all the way to the FBI.
I find it highly unlikely that something didn't happen at this point based on those facts - it seems as though theobjective observer would agree.
1. This gets lost in all the hoopla, but the fact is that we never reported Auburn to the SEC or NCAA for anything. All we reported was that someone in the Newton family/someone supposedly representing the Newton family solicited money from MSU to secure a signed LOI from Cam Newton.
2. According to NCAA rules, it ultimately doesn't matter if any money changed hands between Auburn and the Newtons. If the recruit or some interested party of the recruit merely requested improper benefits during the recruiting process, then that is a violation of NCAA rules and that recruit is viewed as inelegible by the NCAA. So, I think Auburn would still have to vacate wins from any games that Cam played in.
3. Auburn is in a firestorm again, not because of us, but because ultimately they signed Cam and because the head of their finance committe is a guy who's been known to be heavily involved in gambling, money laundering, and trying to influence state politicians with money.
4. Because the feds are involved, I think it's obvious that something very wrong happened here and that the course of action the NCAA ultimately takes will look like child's play when the federal government gets through with this situation. This one is going to be a game changer.
2. According to NCAA rules, it ultimately doesn't matter if any money changed hands between Auburn and the Newtons. If the recruit or some interested party of the recruit merely requested improper benefits during the recruiting process, then that is a violation of NCAA rules and that recruit is viewed as inelegible by the NCAA. So, I think Auburn would still have to vacate wins from any games that Cam played in.
3. Auburn is in a firestorm again, not because of us, but because ultimately they signed Cam and because the head of their finance committe is a guy who's been known to be heavily involved in gambling, money laundering, and trying to influence state politicians with money.
4. Because the feds are involved, I think it's obvious that something very wrong happened here and that the course of action the NCAA ultimately takes will look like child's play when the federal government gets through with this situation. This one is going to be a game changer.
referencing that he had the money in hand in Sept 09. Yes, he said that, but it has been proven false by this story from 5/27/2010.
Here is the relevant part of the article if you don't want to click the link
How hard is this to understand? As of May 2010, Cecil still did NOT have the money in hand to do the work. This does seem to put at least a few holes in the story that "the money was funneled into the church for repairs". But it is abundantly clear that the work done to the church was still not done as of May 2010 due to Cecil not having the money in hand.
Here is the relevant part of the article if you don't want to click the link
How hard is this to understand? As of May 2010, Cecil still did NOT have the money in hand to do the work. This does seem to put at least a few holes in the story that "the money was funneled into the church for repairs". But it is abundantly clear that the work done to the church was still not done as of May 2010 due to Cecil not having the money in hand.
2. According to NCAA rules, it ultimately doesn't matter if any money changed hands between Auburn and the Newtons. If the recruit or some interested party of the recruit merely requested improper benefits during the recruiting process, then that is a violation of NCAA rules and that recruit is viewed as inelegible by the NCAA. So, I think Auburn would still have to vacate wins from any games that Cam played in.
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Albert Means says "hi"
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Albert Means says "hi"
This is exactly why Cam will not play again and Auburn will vacate all their wins. Regardless of whether money changed hands, Cam is ineligible. The only question left regarding this issue is what did the SEC and Auburn know and when did they know it. I hope for Auburn's sake the SEC sat on this because it has already been shown that the SEC knew in January and if they told Auburn and Auburn still played him they are 17d. My gut says they are 17d.wcvet said:
Didn't even see that part, thought it was your sig.wcvet said:
The reason Means didn't lose eligibility is because it was never proven that Means or his family ever asked or had knowledge of the money. Mean's coach pimped him without his knowledge. It's different when dear old dad pimps you out.
<div class="messagebody">Is this you from the AU Scout board or are there more than one of you out there?
Please feel free to shoot holes in this.
My premise is based on Rogers working for MSU, not Cecil Newton.
When Mullen went to MSU, he knew he wanted Cam as his QB. Cam wanted to play under Mullen, but had left the decision mostly with his dad. Everything was ok until AZ, OU, and AU also started recruiting Cam. MSU coaches or boosters began getting nervous about their chances since Cecil and Cam where looking at a few other schools just to be sure of their decision. MSU coaches or boosters then contact Rogers to try to convince Cecil that MSU is the place to go. At some point Rogers (whether directed by someone else or not) calls Bond and Bell to solicit funds. Bond is not privy to Rogers involvement and doesn't like the idea so he reports it to MSU AD ( who eventually send info to SEC.) Rogers and MSU coaches met with Cecil during Cam's visit and broached the subject, at which point CECIL says "I don't want to hear about that." Rogers follows the Newton's out of town after the visit and confronts them about a deal for $180,000 to get Cam to sign and calls Bell to show Cecil he could get the $. Cam and Cecil now know this is not going to work, and Cam commits to AU soon after. In his call to MSU coaches Cam says "the money was too much (to offer)" and he just couldn't jeopardize his career like that. Cecil tells AU coaches, who report the violations to SEC. MSU doesn't respond to SEC until NCAA gets involved because they know they are in deep doodoo. The rest of this junk coming out now is a smear either by MSU or UA.
That is why all the players are on MSU side and no other schools repoted irregularities. Bond has repeatedly said this has NOTHING to do with AU, as has Rogers.
Well, what do you all think?
</div>
Please feel free to shoot holes in this.
My premise is based on Rogers working for MSU, not Cecil Newton.
When Mullen went to MSU, he knew he wanted Cam as his QB. Cam wanted to play under Mullen, but had left the decision mostly with his dad. Everything was ok until AZ, OU, and AU also started recruiting Cam. MSU coaches or boosters began getting nervous about their chances since Cecil and Cam where looking at a few other schools just to be sure of their decision. MSU coaches or boosters then contact Rogers to try to convince Cecil that MSU is the place to go. At some point Rogers (whether directed by someone else or not) calls Bond and Bell to solicit funds. Bond is not privy to Rogers involvement and doesn't like the idea so he reports it to MSU AD ( who eventually send info to SEC.) Rogers and MSU coaches met with Cecil during Cam's visit and broached the subject, at which point CECIL says "I don't want to hear about that." Rogers follows the Newton's out of town after the visit and confronts them about a deal for $180,000 to get Cam to sign and calls Bell to show Cecil he could get the $. Cam and Cecil now know this is not going to work, and Cam commits to AU soon after. In his call to MSU coaches Cam says "the money was too much (to offer)" and he just couldn't jeopardize his career like that. Cecil tells AU coaches, who report the violations to SEC. MSU doesn't respond to SEC until NCAA gets involved because they know they are in deep doodoo. The rest of this junk coming out now is a smear either by MSU or UA.
That is why all the players are on MSU side and no other schools repoted irregularities. Bond has repeatedly said this has NOTHING to do with AU, as has Rogers.
Well, what do you all think?
</div>
Mississippi State isn't spinning anything. They didn't turn in Auburn. They reported known information that could lead to a violation on their part. By default (b/c Cam went to Auburn) it implements Auburn. If he had gone to Oklahoma, would we have then mysteriously turned in OU instead of Auburn?
Cecil Newton 17ed his son. Plain and simple. Didn't even have the decency to give the ol chap a reach around. I feel sorry for Cam Newton and Auburn. I'll quit feeling sorry for one or the other or both once I have proof either was involved.
I have enough evidence to believe Cecil was involved already.
Cecil Newton 17ed his son. Plain and simple. Didn't even have the decency to give the ol chap a reach around. I feel sorry for Cam Newton and Auburn. I'll quit feeling sorry for one or the other or both once I have proof either was involved.
I have enough evidence to believe Cecil was involved already.
I know both sides are spinning heavily.
I also know that it is a fact that Means eligibility stayed in tact because it was proven that neither he nor his family had any knowledge of what his HS coach did which makes this situation completely different from the Means situation in that regard. Hard to create a trail of plausible deniability when dear ol' dad is the one pimping you.
I also know that it is a fact that Means eligibility stayed in tact because it was proven that neither he nor his family had any knowledge of what his HS coach did which makes this situation completely different from the Means situation in that regard. Hard to create a trail of plausible deniability when dear ol' dad is the one pimping you.
what the Albert Means case did do was establish a precedent for situations like Cam Newton's.
Also, you can't forget or underestimate the affect of the media.....and all this has done is set off probably the biggest national media frenzy in the history of college football surrounding the eligiblity of the frontrunner for the heisman trophy as well asa school that up until a week ago was looking like a lock for the NC game. Not to mention thattheschool in questionjust happens to have a history of being at the center of some of the biggest NCAA rules violations cases in college football history. No offense to Auburn or their fans, but the hammer is coming down hard on this one.
Also, you can't forget or underestimate the affect of the media.....and all this has done is set off probably the biggest national media frenzy in the history of college football surrounding the eligiblity of the frontrunner for the heisman trophy as well asa school that up until a week ago was looking like a lock for the NC game. Not to mention thattheschool in questionjust happens to have a history of being at the center of some of the biggest NCAA rules violations cases in college football history. No offense to Auburn or their fans, but the hammer is coming down hard on this one.
olemissbydamn said:
Including your Ole Miss brethern. Many of them are saying that we just got outbid, got pissed, and called the SEC. That wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. That would be like trying to kill someone but getting pissed when someone else killed them before you could and then calling the police.
Anyway, the facts will eventually come out and no amount of spin or wishful internet thinking is going to change the outcome.
Suppose Cecil 'fesses up but in this process claims he (Cecil) and he alone perpetrated this whole affair and that Cam and AU had NO knowledge or involvement in the affair? Kinda like the Albert means affair except now there is an actual family member involved. Under this scenario could AU and Cam 'cop a walk?' There would surely be sanctions/penalties for any boosters involved but is this a way for AU and Cam to extricate themselves from this pile of **** and smell like a rose? Remember, it would still have to be proved that AU and Cam were involved.
Some of the participants may be OK with telling lies to the NCAA, but I would be surprised if think they wanted to risk criminal prosecution.
the fact that the FBI is involved doesn't allow me to believe it would be that simple. Also, according to NCAA rules, I still think Cam would ultimately be ruled ineligible, and in that case even though Auburn would be able to claim that they unknowingly played an ineligible player, I think they would still have to vacate the wins at the very least.
No doubt. I could see the aubies cutting down the tree on Toomers corner and erecting a bronze statue of Cecil in its' place. Every year thereafter on this monumental day would be celebrated Saint Cecils' day on the plains.
paindonthurt said:
The fans are spinning you dumb 17. Have you not been reading the boards? Including this one. Are you trying to tell me there is no spin coming from your fan base?
The only people playing this "we didn't turn them in angle, we were just forced to report something we heard about" are you guys. To me and every other college football fan that isn't associated with MSU, that is turning them in.
The spin is coming from every school's fans.
You have evidence? Wow, we've got a live one. What's your evidence? John Bonds word? Kenny Rogers word? Did you make a quick trip down to Costa Rica and talk with Mr. Bell. You know the Newtons?
All you have are the statements being spun by the players in this soap opera. That's it.
Eventually, something concrete will come out. Until then, none of us really know.
You have a bigger, better brother University to the North of you who knows everything you ever do, so it's best for you to accept your role as second-fiddle and stay honest.
olemissbydamn said:
You show me a single quote where anyone from MSU said that Auburn paid the Newtons orwhere Auburn waseven approached for money. We reported that we were solicited for money and never said **** about Auburn.
Now I get that there is a natural implication but we did not in any way directlyturn Auburn in. That is pure conjecture.
Could be completely wrong but go 17 yourself.
FACT: MSU followed the rules set by the SEC. Report any known violations directly to this office. We reported that someone on behalf of the Newton family (so they claimed) was soliciting money for Cam to come to MSU.
QUESTION: If he had picked OK instead of AU, would you say MSU turned in OK?
FACT: MSU followed the rules set by the SEC. Report any known violations directly to this office. We reported that someone on behalf of the Newton family (so they claimed) was soliciting money for Cam to come to MSU.
QUESTION: If he had picked OK instead of AU, would you say MSU turned in OK?
refrain from giving opinions about what is or is not "evidence." Are you looking for a signed confession from Cecil and a cancelled check from an Auburn booster just like the other dumb *** Auburn fans in denial? Good luck with that. The statements made by Bond and others about conversations with Rogers, Cecil etc. are all "evidence" and is the same type "evidence" that is used every day in our justice system. I guess you will also be shocked to learn that all the witnesses incases involving illegal payments, solicitations and crimes are not always paragons of virtue - nevertheless their testimony is "evidence." </p>