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I just tried to use logic with an Alabama fan

615dawg

615dawg

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
6,575
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I might has well been talking to a brick wall. I simply stated that an argument could be made that Ingram was not the best back in the SEC. Citing that Dixon averaged 8 yards per game more than Ingram, it wasn't logical. Citing that against common opponents, Dixon gained nearly 200 yard more than Ingram, had more touchdowns than Ingram, and averaged more per carry than Ingram, it wasn't logical. Citing that a good number of Ingram's yards came against Florida International, North Texas and Chattanooga, it wasn't logical. I personally feel that this is the worst travesty of Heisman voting since '97. Suh should have won, then Gerhart, then McCoy, then Ingram.
 
615dawg

615dawg

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
6,575
3,466
113
I might has well been talking to a brick wall. I simply stated that an argument could be made that Ingram was not the best back in the SEC. Citing that Dixon averaged 8 yards per game more than Ingram, it wasn't logical. Citing that against common opponents, Dixon gained nearly 200 yard more than Ingram, had more touchdowns than Ingram, and averaged more per carry than Ingram, it wasn't logical. Citing that a good number of Ingram's yards came against Florida International, North Texas and Chattanooga, it wasn't logical. I personally feel that this is the worst travesty of Heisman voting since '97. Suh should have won, then Gerhart, then McCoy, then Ingram.
 
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hotdigitydog

Redshirt
May 21, 2007
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like facts and data.........They simply believe what they want to believe and are delusional........I liked to have never gotten them to understand that the SEC office ranked Dixon as the leading rusher over Ingram........They damn near wanted to fight me.......
 
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msukb591

Redshirt
Dec 7, 2009
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Put Dixon with the players in the Alabama offense surrounding him and there would be no talk of how this was the closest Heisman race in history. Put together a highlight reel of Dixon's runs vs. Ingram's. See who you come away more impressed with.
 
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RT23

Redshirt
Mar 7, 2009
193
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615dawg said:
Citing that against common opponents, Dixon gained nearly 200 yard more than Ingram, had more touchdowns than Ingram, and averaged more per carry than Ingram, it wasn't logical. Citing that a good number of Ingram's yards came against Florida International, North Texas and Chattanooga, it wasn't logical.
Click to expand...
You need better logic:

Against common opponents:
Ingram-8 total TD's
Dixon-8 total TD's

Ingram played a total of 6 quarters and 3 drives in the FIU, NT, and UTC games. He was actually held to under 100 yards in both the FIU and NT games. He carried the ball a grand total of 29 times for 249 yards (83 ypg) in those 3 games. Other than Auburn, those were his worst statistical games, mainly because he didnt see the field in the second half.

If you want to get them to acknowledge your logic, make sure that it is good logic.

Im not saying he deserved the award more than anyone else there. 4 of the 5 could have won and it would not have upset me at all. Gerhart had better numbers, but given the number of carries, he should have. I personally think that McCoy and Suh cancelled each other out in the Big12 game. Suh only got to New York because of that game and I believe McCoy wins the Heisman if he was not dominated by the other candidate on the last game of the year.

Dixon could very well be the best back in the SEC, but he had more carries in 2 fewer games. I personally think that is impressive to take the ball that many times. Ingram's stats suffer because of the benefit he has playing at Alabama. Alabama's depth at RB allowed them to take the load off of Ingram.

If stats are the only thing we are basing the award on, then why vote on the award? Just give it to the player with the gaudiest stats, no matter who he played or how they were attained. That will fix the problem.
 
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RT23

Redshirt
Mar 7, 2009
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Put Dixon at Alabama, and he shares carries with Richardson and Upchurch just like Ingram. His ypc may go up, but his total carries go down.
 
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tossedoff

Redshirt
Feb 23, 2008
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Don't underestimate the PR push that was put on by Alabama to point out that they never had a Heisman trophy winner. Dixon was clearly better than Ingram. Suh should have won the award.
 
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RT23

Redshirt
Mar 7, 2009
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4 of the 5 would have deserved it, given a different result.

I would put Dixon and Ingram in the same category in the SEC. Both were great backs.
Dixon had more yards per game and more carries.
Ingram had more yards per carry, more total yards, and more touchdowns. He may have had 2 extra games, but he still maintained a higher YPC.</p>
 
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dbb49

Redshirt
Feb 1, 2009
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Other than the TD's part, where his post should say "rushing touch downs," you accused him of bad logic without actually disproving any of his points. I do believe that 240 yards is a good number of yards. Perhaps you should have actually looked up the numbers to which he refers. I will save you the trouble. I'm not saying that Dixon is better. I'm saying that 615 has a valid, logical point concerning performances against common opponents.
file:///C:/Users/Daniel/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png
file:///C:/Users/Daniel/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png
 
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PineGroveBully

Redshirt
Nov 13, 2007
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<span><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sAbBwfDr6_s?f=videos&app=youtube_gdata" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355" allowScriptAccess="never" ></embed></span>
 
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RT23

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Mar 7, 2009
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I think that the fact that I didnt try to contradict the other points he was making would be enough to acknowledge that I am conceding those points.

So Ingram had two of his better games against 2 uncommon opponents, both of which finished in the top 15 in Total Defense.
VT-150 yards rushing with 2 Total TD's and SC-246 yards rushing and 1 TD.

How do you discount those two games by conveniently leaving out the entire body of work?
 
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RT23

Redshirt
Mar 7, 2009
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Mississippi State SOS - 1
Alabama SOS - 4

Not too big of a difference, especially considering Ingram got his stats in the OOC games minus VT, all in the first half.</p>
 
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RT23

Redshirt
Mar 7, 2009
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So, does Mullen leave Dixon in the entire game to run up his stats and the score or does he pull him after one half? I guess we will never know.
 
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RT23

Redshirt
Mar 7, 2009
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Im not saying Ingram was better this year than Dixon.

I am saying they were the two elite backs of the SEC this year, with not a whole lot of difference between them. Both lead the SEC in rushing categories, but with neither taking the crown. Everyone below them was a step down this year. McCluster came on strong at the end, but was still not in the same league as Ingram and Dixon.

Hopefully, next year, Dixon will be making millions and Ingram will be back in the SEC making a statement to make millions in the following year.
 
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Agentdog

Redshirt
Aug 16, 2006
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Dixon is as worthy of the Heisman as Ingram. I agree.

Why do you care to debate this on a State message board? Let me guess. You are from Columbus. You never attended Alabama. You could count on one hand the number of times you have been to Tuscaloosa.

I hate it for the State fans in Columbus. I know the trailer trash around there has been roll tide rolling all over the Wal Mart.
 
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MedDawg

Senior
May 29, 2001
5,218
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RT23 said:
Put Dixon at Alabama, and he shares carries with Richardson and Upchurch just like Ingram. His ypc may go up, but his total carries go down.
Click to expand...
On top of Dixon's carries, the rest of the team had 298. Bama had 301 additional rushes on top of Ingram's.
 
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RT23

Redshirt
Mar 7, 2009
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I actaully graduated from State. I came here to get a degree that was not offered at Alabama, not to cheer for a football team. I would hope that everyone making decisions to go to college would do the same.

Im from Huntsville, lived in Tuscaloosa, and have attended more Alabama games than I care to count.

I dont care really to debate this topic on a State message board, it just came up here. I read this site because of the entertainment value, but usually have no need to post anything. My wife and inlaws are all big State fans. I keep up with State and support them in all but one game a year.
 
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Eureka Dog

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2008
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unless "logic" and "Alabama fan" are used as being opposing of each other. Those two things cannot exist in the same conversation. If they ever actually did exist in the same conversation, a black hole would immediately form, thus destroying the universe.
 
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bbqbully

Redshirt
Sep 14, 2008
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was trying to use logic on a fanbase who still rides the coattails of a coach who's been dead for nearly 30 years.
 
HD6

HD6

Sophomore
Apr 8, 2003
10,019
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and even after you play Texas, you will still be a mile behind us. The gap in opponents winning percentage between our schedule and yours currently is the same difference between you at 2 and Nebraska at 49. It's no contest.
 
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HammerOfTheDogs

All-Conference
Jun 20, 2001
10,760
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Bammer only has one more MNC than The Mississippi State University has (our back to back National champioships in 1940-41).
 
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HammerOfTheDogs

All-Conference
Jun 20, 2001
10,760
1,541
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When he started, everybody was running "Read and React", with every defensive player assigned a lane, with nobody deviating except for the occasional blitz or stunt.

JLD's defenses didn't care about "assignments", he just cared about putting a hat on the ball. When his New Mexico team played Jim MacMahon's BYU, he had Mac so confused he didn't know which way to go...and this with JLD's defense depleted and one of his football managers forced to play safety.

Nowadays, EVERYBODY is running unorthodox defenses. JLD is now way behind the curve. Not only that, but I heard rumors that he's never changed his hand signals from the sidelines so it's easy for the offenses to adjust.
 
HD6

HD6

Sophomore
Apr 8, 2003
10,019
108
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<span style="font-weight: bold;">I actaully graduated from State. I came here to get a degree that was not offered at Alabama, not to cheer for a football team. I would hope that everyone making decisions to go to college would do the same.</span>
Click to expand...
 
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MSU CS 2004

Redshirt
Mar 7, 2008
152
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RT23 said:
I actaully graduated from State. I came here to get a degree that was not offered at Alabama, not to cheer for a football team. I would hope that everyone making decisions to go to college would do the same.
Click to expand...
I did do the same. Then I stopped cheering for the team I grew up cheering for and embraced the school that provided me with an education.

I wish I could stop following the most frustrating team in college football. I wish I could jump on the bandwagon of a good team. But I can't cheer against my alma mater. I cannot fathom how anyone could.
 
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