I think Notre Dame

[Todd4State]

is wrong for not going to a bowl because they fired Weiss.

After all that their players have had to endure this year, they earned a bowl trip by winning games on the field. They are the ones being penalized for something that is not in their control. ND is acting like going to some low level bowl with an interim coach is something that is beneath them.

OK, so it's not an ideal situation to have a guy like Jon Tenuta coach a bowl game- at least he has experience doing that at GT as a lame duck, and sure the Emerald Walnut Bowl on the west coast playing Fresno State is not exactly up to their standards of a BCS game, but come on. Get over it. If not for the players, do it for the money.

A lot of teams have gone into bowl games in a similar situation- it happens every year to somebody it seems- but most rational schools and AD's realize that it's not just about winning the Emerald Walnut Bowl in the short term, it's about the long term future of your program.

 

[Todd4State]

is wrong for not going to a bowl because they fired Weiss.

After all that their players have had to endure this year, they earned a bowl trip by winning games on the field. They are the ones being penalized for something that is not in their control. ND is acting like going to some low level bowl with an interim coach is something that is beneath them.

OK, so it's not an ideal situation to have a guy like Jon Tenuta coach a bowl game- at least he has experience doing that at GT as a lame duck, and sure the Emerald Walnut Bowl on the west coast playing Fresno State is not exactly up to their standards of a BCS game, but come on. Get over it. If not for the players, do it for the money.

A lot of teams have gone into bowl games in a similar situation- it happens every year to somebody it seems- but most rational schools and AD's realize that it's not just about winning the Emerald Walnut Bowl in the short term, it's about the long term future of your program.

 

[Coach34]

in their mind anyway

 

[therightway]

nm

 

[SwampDawg]

got an invite to an "inferior" bowl rather than a prestige bowl and chose to stay home

 

[AssEndDawg]

Why is the perception of certain jobs so far off from the reality? People consider Notre Dame a dream job. Why? You step in and you are expected to win 10 games a year. Your own fans are punching your players in the face. They will fire you in a heart beat. I know the money is good but with the SEC raking in the dough there are going to be a lot of well paid coaches. Is it the fame? Again, Notre Damn fired Lou Holtz because he was doing too good and about to break the precious wins record. It seems to me that taking the Notre Dame job is like playing the lottery. You have such a small chance of being successful that it's hardly worth it. I guess I'm just one of those people who can make enough money. You pay me 1.5 million a year and a raise doesn't mean as much as the other factors.

I honestly think the Irish are in real trouble at this point partly because they don't have a conference. And I think that is going to get worse as time goes on. If they don't fix the program and get back on track quickly they will get the shaft the next time the BCS is restructured.

 

[MSUCostanza]

Holtz retired in 1996 for 1 (or more) of 3 reasons: his wife's cancer, the NCAA troubles, and being wooed by the Vikings. Get your damn facts straight.

Notre Dame is still one of the premier jobs in America. Anyone thinking differently is doing so out of some hatred of ND. Coaching at ND is like coaching at Alabama - there are huge expectations. Some coaches are cut out to meet them, many aren't.

 

[Todd4State]

Why is the perception of certain jobs so far off from the reality? People consider Notre Dame a dream job. Why? You step in and you are expected to win 10
games a year. Your own fans are punching your players in the face. They will fire you in a heart beat. I know the money is good but with the SEC raking in the
dough there are going to be a lot of well paid coaches. Is it the fame? Again, Notre Damn fired Lou Holtz because he was doing too good and about to break the
precious wins record. It seems to me that taking the Notre Dame job is like playing the lottery. You have such a small chance of being successful that it's
hardly worth it. I guess I'm just one of those people who can make enough money. You pay me 1.5 million a year and a raise doesn't mean as much as the
other factors.


I honestly think the Irish are in real trouble at this point partly because they don't have a conference. And I think that is going to get worse as time
goes on. If they don't fix the program and get back on track quickly they will get the shaft the next time the BCS is restructured.

why they would even turn down a crappy bowl. Take the money and run. So what if you get your *** kicked? How is that any different than getting your *** kicked by Navy or UConn?

And yes, I know ND has money, but it doesn't make much sense to me to turn money down.

 

[FlabLoser]

Holtz retired in 1996 for 1 (or more) of 3 reasons: his wife's cancer, the NCAA troubles, and being wooed by the Vikings. Get your damn facts straight.

Notre Dame is still one of the premier jobs in America. Anyone thinking differently is doing so out of some hatred of ND. Coaching at ND is like coaching at Alabama - there are huge expectations. Some coaches are cut out to meet them, many aren't.

Stop it. Your scaring my sarcasm detector.

 

[AssEndDawg]

So you say my hatred of Notre Dame is my reason for this opinion? I don't care one way or another about them. No love, no hate. But obviously you DO care enough to tow the party line. Now, I may be wrong on that but there is, and was, a lot of speculation that Lou was forced out at 100 wins. Did he resign, yes. Did Croom resign, yes. Do almost ALL coaches resign, yes.

So why don't you actually anser the %*+*%## question instead of just being a douchebag (I know this goes against your instincts). WHY is Notre Dame one of the premiere coaching jobs in America? As I see it they have this going for them:

Money
Exposure

And this against them:

Unrealistic fans
No conference
Loss of mystique

Now every team in the SEC makes more money than they do off TV contract. So, while the money issue is still there it's not going to be the primary factor (although very few other schools are stupid enough to offer unproven college coaches 15 year contracts so they have that going for them). Getting your *** kicked by Service Academies is not my idea of a "premier" school, but maybe your definition includes 55% winning teams (winning percentage since 2001).

But again, I was saying Notre Dame isn't one of the best jobs out there, I'm just question why you idiot.

 

[Johnson85]

...If not for the players, do it for the money...

Depends on which inferior bowl game, but I think ND would lose money on a lot of bowl games. I think the PapaJohn's payout is $300k (I assume per team), which is less than we paid JSU to come to Starkville. By the time you pay for travel, hotel rooms, food, etc, I'm not sure ND really would make money on a lot of bowl games, or at least not enough money to make a difference. I still think it's stupid of them and it sucks for the players, but it might actually be the right move financially. And while the "we're Notre Dame" aura is pretty annoying considering how long they've sucked, if they lose that attitude, there's really no reason for anybody to consider them anything special. They'd just be a mediocre football team with academic standards that screw them in a ****** place to recruit to.

 

[jakldawg]

I had no idea they didn't go to bowls back then.
And here's an interesting chart regarding their "eliteness." They seem okay, but appear to have a problem with consistency, so it's a good thing they go through coaches with the frequency that most people buy new pants.
And finally, if you have ever wondered why people could despise Notre Dame, this navel-gazing, self-aggrandizing hackery should do the trick.
(but this same writer apparently hates The Grooooooove.)

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

..if ND can't have the whole college football culture cater to their every whim, they toss a hissy fit like a spolied little girl.

ND no longer has anything to offer the college football landscape. They remind me of Ole Miss fan constantly acting like it's 1962.

I could go on & on about the utter stupidity concerning all things Notre Dame, but I'll end on this: How much sense does it make that MSUcostanza is a Notre Dame fan? Talk about your ultimate perfect fit.

 

[patdog]

with a 6-6 record and 4 straight losses to end the season. Hell, who's to say that after all their players have been through this season the last thing they want to do is get ready for a ****** bowl game insted of going home for Christmas break.

 

[Agentdog]

I think you make a good point AE.

While ND and many others are still the top jobs. Top programs are not getting the top canidates after firing a successful coach. The UF replacement of Spurrier with Zook is a good example. While that is a top job, not many coaches wanted to follow Spurrier and be compared to him. No way Zook was even UFs 2nd choice. The UT firing of Fulmer and hiring of Kiffen. I don't see how Kiffen would be UT's top choice. You would certainly think UT could find a guy who had more experience than one losing year as a HC in the NFL.

Alabama after they fired Stallings......I don't remember if Dubose was an up and comer. However, he wasn't exactly a national name. Then it got worse after they fired Dubose.....When you are Alabama and your final two are Croom and little Shula....you don't have the best in the country applying. Auburn firing Tubberville......certainly Chizik worked out. However, it wasn't like he was a proven, experience head coach. Look what Oklahoma went through after Switzer left.

Anyway......if ND hires Kelley from Cincinnati or Patterson....that would be a great hire. Things may work out for them this time. However, they replaced Willingham with Weiss who had no head coaching experience above high school. ND has been turned down twice by Myer and by Stoops. I think you make a good observation.

 

[VET]

After all that their players have had to endure this year, they earned a bowl trip by winning games on the field. They are the ones being penalized for something that is not in their control. ND is acting like going to some low level bowl with an interim coach is something that is beneath them.

From what I've heard it was the players decision not to go bowling. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Here & Here & Here & Here

 

[patdog]

They've had a ****** season that got their coach fired, and even a win over a MAC team in a ****** bowl game won't change that. It would still be a ****** season that got their coach fired.

 

[MSUCostanza]

that it used to be. But to assume that ND is dead is a bad assumption. I've found that there are few people that don't care one way or another about ND. Most people that aren't fans, hate them. They were attracting top 10-15 recruiting classes with a terrible coaching staff. So, if they make the right hire this time, there is no reason not to believe they can get back to being an elite program, winning 10 games a year. I'm hoping its either Ferentz or Brian Kelly. Brian Kelly's non-denial the other day makes me believe he's the guy.

As to your question, why is ND still a big job? The fans are not "unrealistic". ND is 3rd all-time in wins, recently passed by Texas. Still 2nd in win %, .001 behind Michigan, and that was coming into the season. Why shouldn't ND fans expect to compete for and win championships? Alabama hasn't won one since 1992, and their fans expect it. Hell, I think most ND fans (me included) would just be happy to go back to winning 9-10 games a year with the occasional run at 11-12. 6-6 ain't cutting it, nor should it for a program with the tradition of ND. The "no conference" thing will eventually be taken care of. ND is starting to lean towards the Big East, and they are playing 3 Big East teams per season starting in 2010. That's the first step to joining that league, which they already belong to in hoops. The "loss of mystique" is just from losing. Again, the right coach can win big there. The school is still very attractive to top athletes - Tate, Clausen, Floyd - all very highly recruited. Just need a real college coach, and not some NFL guy who has never done the college thing (see also Croom, Sylvester).

 

[AceLeroy]

Why would they not take the bowl game just for the 3 weeks of extra practice? It could help them get better for next year.

I guess if I were a SR and my playing days were over , I could see not wanting to play in a small bowl game , but I can't understand the rest of the team not wanting to play.

On second thought , if I were a SR on that team I would want the bowl game to try and leave on a win and winning record. I would question the heart of my teammates who would rather just end the season over the chance to finish with a winning record.

 

[olemissbydamn]

for a player, I'd certainly make sure the kid knew that ND may turn down a bowl if they don't like the results of their season.

It's not fair to the players to turn down the bowl.

 

[ShineOnYouCrazyBulldog]

for a player, I'd certainly make sure the kid knew that ND may turn down a bowl if they don't like the results of their season.

It's not fair to the players to turn down the bowl.

I believe the players are the ones that turned it down.

 

[SLUdog]

Notre Dame has been an average Big 10 team for about 15 years. I don't think they could win the Big 10. It will NEVER be what it was if it ever was. Luckily, Notre Dame is actually a university with very good academics which means a lot more than football.

 

[olemissbydamn]

Much like the Tiger drama, I couldn't give a **** what ND does.

It is hard to believe the players didn't want a bowl trip and all the free gifts that come along with it. Aside from the easy *****, free education, and a chance at the pros, isn't the bowl what you play for?

Again, you may be right, but the players turning it down is hard to believe.

 

[Todd4State]

Apologies to their AD.

 

[EmoryBellard]

The Cowboys won a playoff game more recently than ND won a bowl game. That is shocking.

 

[paindonthurt_]

now left you have money and exposure in their favor.

you have 1. unrealistic fans and 2. no conference against them. No conference hurts but aside from that you have the exact same setup as Alabama, Tenn, etc, etc.

Notre Dame is a premier job b/c its..........Notre 17ing Dame. I hate em but its still considered the mecca of college football by many.

Are they what they once were? No. Can they be again? Yes.
If you say they can't, I say someone said the same thing about Florida and Florida State once before.

No one and I repeat no one is going to dominate college football for ever or consistently for a decade or more. Its going to be cyclical if for no other reason than the laws of probability.

 

[MSUCostanza]

is that people have said that every time ND has been down. And every time, ND gets back into the upper echelon. Going back, in the early 60's, they had 5 straight .500 or below seasons. People proclaimed them dead. Then they hired Ara Parseghian, and he won 2 NC's, including the 1966 team considered maybe the best college team in modern history (9-0-1, gave up 38 points all season and scored 362). When Faust was fired, they were saying it, and Holtz won big. Since Holtz, they have made 3 terrible hires. No program can withstand 3 bad coaches in a row. They are still recruiting well, just need a damn coach worth a crap.

 

[ShineOnYouCrazyBulldog]

I even try to avoid them. However, it can be difficult at times and I'm pretty sure that I saw where the players voted on whether or not to go.

 

[SLUdog]

long lasting down times in their history. Interesting. I simply don't understand how their record over the past 20 years can justify the attention they receive. But there seems to be a lot of people throughout the country who have no real connection to them at all (except maybe being Catholic) they care about their football program.

 

[AssEndDawg]

On any given Friday night in Tennessee (or Mississippi or Alabama) go to a High School football game. After the game is over go up to the best kid on the team and ask him what he thinks of Notre Dame. Then ask him what he thinks of Florida or USC. Several of my friends have kids that will eventually play 1A football and they just don't see Notre Dame the way my age group did when we were younger. They have never really known a great coach at Notre Dame and for most of their life it's just been a average team. Older people still treat Notre Dame with some revereance due to the past but kids don't give a crap about that.

Also, to hammer home the conference point there are a LOT of players who decide they want to play in the SEC before they even start talking about teams. I think it is going to hurt them more and more not being in a conference. But who knows....

 

[wbc40]

Auburn firing Tubberville......certainly <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Chizik</span> Malzahn worked out.

 

[MSUCostanza]

It's all there in the record books. But look at other huge programs - they have all had multiple down periods too. If you look at the all-time records, ND is still there. 3rd in wins, 2nd in win %. Texas, #2 in wins, was pretty pedestrian for much of the 80's and 90's (by their standards) until Mack Brown came. That's why I say it's all about having the right coach. Same goes for Alabama, Michigan, etc. Alabama went through some ****** coaches and you heard the same things about the Alabama mystique being dead, and Alabama being an average program forever - until landing Saban, now look at them. 24 straight regular season wins. 24-2 overall the last 2 years. Hate to say it, but it looks like they are back to being an SEC power. Another good example - does anyone believe that Florida State will be mediocre from now on? I sure as hell don't. They just got stagnant with Bowden and his cronies on the sidelines. Will Fisher be the guy to get them back? Don't know, but eventually they'll be a top 10 team again. And you mention people having no connection to ND - there are plenty of other examples of that across the country. Hell, in our own backyard, there are thousands of Alabama fans that have never set foot in Tuscaloosa.

 

[paindonthurt_]

He cares what a highschool kid says. Are you saying they can't recruit top talent at Notre Dame??

Scout's take on that:
2009 #23 (only signed 18 players likely due to scholarship limitations and not b/c they couldn't recruit)
2008 #2
2007 #11 (again they only signed 18 players)
2006 #5
2005 #27 (15 players)

Rival's take
2009 #21
2008 #2
2007 #8
2006 #8
2005 #40

Maybe depth is their issue but it isn't being able to get talent. Like I said earlier, they have the potential to be good again. I do think going to a decent conference would help.

 

[MSUCostanza]

Hendersonville, TN.

Just look at their roster, they have kids from all over the country.

 

[goindhoo]

The Cowboys won a playoff game more recently than ND won a bowl game. That is shocking.

false...won one last year