I think this Quote says a lot

[saddawg]

From the CL Front page article.

"Robert Wolverton, a foreign languages professor and president of the faculty senate, said Foglesong is, "a perfectly good person," but agreed the College Board's process for hiring Foglesong was flawed.

"I do think that anyone who understands universities know there are two types of people you don't bring in to lead (a university)," Wolverton said. "One is a military person. The other is a corporate business person."</p>

In other words, people who make people get off their asses and get **** done.</p>

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[saddawg]

From the CL Front page article.

"Robert Wolverton, a foreign languages professor and president of the faculty senate, said Foglesong is, "a perfectly good person," but agreed the College Board's process for hiring Foglesong was flawed.

"I do think that anyone who understands universities know there are two types of people you don't bring in to lead (a university)," Wolverton said. "One is a military person. The other is a corporate business person."</p>

In other words, people who make people get off their asses and get **** done.</p>

</p>

 

[8dog]

types is that their "my way or the highway" approach works in those climates. It doesn't at a University. You have to give and take.

 

[saddawg]

but in my way of looking at things the boss is the boss. Those 2 types usually also have the balls to make tough decisions. I've never seen leadership by committee work very well. It's why the government is so screwed up.
I have an uncle who is a college professor Went to college until he was 36. Got degrees all over the wall. That goofy bastard would starve in the world outside of academia. Nobody in their right mind would hire his weirdo ***. He's probably qualified to run a university, on paper. And every other egg-head would love his spastic ***, but the school would be screwed.

 

[MSUCostanza]

The real world and academia world rarely cross paths. Most college professors, to be perfectly blunt, are incredibly strange people who have almost no concept of life outside the walls of their university. Obviously, then, people from outside that world are going to clash in a big way with college faculty.

 

[statedogg]

In other words, people who make people get off their asses and get **** done.</p>

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I agree, that sounds exactly like what he meant. I guess that only leaves people with an academic or government background. Thats the typical stay in the box thinking that fills the halls in Starkville.</p>

 

[Todd4State]

Or medical field.

I am in charge of placing OT students throughout UMC's clinics and I was told that there were "student issues". The two issues were- one OT didn't like how one students scrubs matched- that's right matched. They didn't have boobs hanging out or anything like that, she just didn't like the way that they looked. And the other was gum chewing. When I had replied that I had not noticed that, the OT told me that it wasn't a student that had come to us, but rather students at a class that she was teaching.

But telling them that they were petty idiots wasn't the way to go, and I've basically seen Doc do that in letters he has written back to people about issues. All he was doing was belittleing people, and that is probably the worst thing you can do with people that are eccentric.

 

[saddawg]

The real world and academia world rarely cross paths. Most college professors, to be perfectly blunt, are incredibly strange people who have almost no concept of life outside the walls of their university. Obviously, then, people from outside that world are going to clash in a big way with college faculty.

Those that can do. Those that can't teach. My uncle is supposedly a Economics and Finance genius. Silly bastard couldn't open a Mom & Pop beer and bait shop to save his life.Be broke in a month. But he can tell you the theory of how to open one up, I guess.</p>

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[vorticityDawg]

In the real/corporate world, the ultimate "boss" is the person that has invested the most and has the most to lose ($$$) if the employees screw up. Likewise, in the military, if the "employees" screw up, then human lives and/or billions of dollars can quickly be lost. It is not very easy, or even possible, for most of these real-world bosses to just leave because they are tired of dealing with stuff.

In a university, the president has very little invested in the employees. If a professor screws up, it usually affects a very small group of people, and it can be handled within that group/department. If the president does not like how things are going, he can simply leave...as we just saw. Therefore, your analogy to the "real world" is not all that valid. Rather, the university president is more like a manager of a pro sports team. He is not going to show anyone how to do their job any better than they already know how, but he should be able to unite the team. His job is to keep the group focused and motivated on common goals, to politic with those controlling the funding, and to work with other employees (those with experience) to implement effective strategies for student recruiting, external fund raising, university vision, etc.

I think everyone agrees that Foglesong did a good with most of the things he was supposed to do, but he also insisted on being a part of every other thing he could possibly stick his nose into, and he has a very divisive "leadership" style. That is why I think he was not a good president.

 

[BewareOfMSUDawg]

Doc did a good job improving a lot of things here but ran over a lot of folks on his way to getting there, which is not good.

Although I will say I agree with those in this thread who said a lot of professors are weird people who are stuck in their own little worlds. Not all of them of course, but there's definitely those who would never make it in the real world. My business ethics professor was the stereotype: she had the washed up former hippie look about her, laughed hysterically at her own lame jokes, and told us how much she loved smoking her pipe and drinking hot beer. Freaking weird.

But anyway, that's where you need some "give and take", and that's something that was lacking on both sides in Doc's time here. Or at least it seemd that way from my distant point of view.

 

[was21]

s

 

[saddawg]

we need a Prez. for then? If he has to make everybody happy, just let the faculty senate run things. I'm sure they would do a bang up job.
Somebody has to be the boss. The boss can't run around worrying if everybody agrees with him. If all faculty, alumni, and students disagree with him,then yeah, there is a problem. This seems a small group that disagreed with him.
The inmates can't run the asylum. The quote this thread is about sounds like the guy doesn't like having a boss. I say their asses need a boss.

 

[williecunningham]

why do companies like Federal Express, AT&T, Chevron, and Microsoft all have members of the academic community on their Boards of Directors?

 

[saddawg]

I'm on a board and I have no idea why they asked me to serve on it. I know **** about what they do. Those companies ain't offering those guys big paying jobs just like my board ain't gonna offer me a exec. job to work at that company.

 

[seingeyedog]

and 4 star general. Fighter pilots are always type A personalities with supreme self confidence. Don't see how you equate that with little man complex. No fighter pilot worth his salt doesn't have supreme confidence in his ability. That same self assuredness can be detrimental at times though. All I can say is that Doc, with all his quirkiness and eccenticities, managed to rise to great heights in his military career. He had to do more than a few things right to climb that ladder. Also, to rise that high, he had to know how to play the political game. The fact that he didn't choose to play that game with the IHL and faculty senate speaks volumes to me. I dare say MSU needed Robert Foglesong far more for another year or two than Robert Foglesong needed MSU. He will continue to hold positions far more impressive than than those held by his detractors on campus and in Jackson. Meanwhile, it is back to square one while we wait for the IHL, an institution with a less than stellar track record, choose our next president. I don't believe the IHL has MSU's best interests at heart, do you?

 

[DerHntr]

and it is the way i feel about it too. also like saddawg said they do need a boss but the boss should act in the way that you have described. it is very atypical for a university president to simply bark orders and that is why you don't bring in a military type. now, there are some things you do give the orders for but Doc had the tendency to pick battles that just seemed f'ing stupid. flowers, election signs, and shadow boxes? pretty dumb **** for him to be worrying about. if he had left that kind of crap alone while at the same time not sending out scathing emails to people when they have complaints/concerns (that he encouraged them to send via email by the way), then we may not be talking about him leaving so damn early.

 

[BewareOfMSUDawg]

The buck does need to stop with one person at the top, the president, who is the final decision maker. He sets the agenda for how things will get done. And at the end of the day, the faculty and professors need to respect his authority.

My point is that I think there's a better way to lead in a university setting. It's involving everybody in the process and not just going at it alone. You have to include the input of others in the faculty and leadership to help develop the best agenda for MSU. You draw people to your way of leadership and thinking, instead of pushing them towards it.

 

[vorticityDawg]

and those bosses should tell them what is expected of them to be successful (e.g., teach this many classes each year with student evaluations at least this high, publish this many papers per year, bring in this amount of grant money, etc.). Those bosses should not try to dictate how those tasks are accomplished, but if they are not accomplished, then you take action against the professor. Believe it or not, that is how academia works, with very few exceptions that I am sure someone on here is raring to share an example of.

Everyone likes to spread the idea that faculty are lazy, but the truth is that they are self-motivated (the successful ones at least). Most people in the "real world" have a boss working nearby to crack the whip. Most faculty simply have expectations to meet every year or every few years. If you don't meet those expectations, you are fired, demoted, or otherwise punished.

this type of freedom does invite some pipe-smoking, sandal-wearing, pony-tail types, but how many of these types do you see in prominent faculty positions at MSU?

 

[williecunningham]

to being on the Board of Microsoft?

 

[DovaDawg]

why do companies like Federal Express, AT&T, Chevron, and Microsoft all have members of the academic community on their Boards of Directors?

</p>Because the SEC feels that managers left to their own to run a company will ultimately act in their own best interest and may conflict with interest of the share holders. The SEC feels that companies with "independent board members" will be less inclined to act selfishly and have better oversight. That is why the SEC now requires a certain amount of independent board members. Who would be more independent than academic types? They can always tell people how it should work in theory and are always willing to stand up against the corporate types to try and prove they are smarter.

 

[williecunningham]

"I'm on a board and don't know **** about it"

 

[MSUCostanza]

those academics would be offered actual jobs at those big corporations.

 

[MidTNDawg]

is "My way or the highway" does not work in today's corporate world and I doubt it works well in the military. Understand in either environment it will work for a short period of time but not any prolonged time at all. As I used to tell my subordinates, "Don't challenge anyone's integrity is public because they will get you. If you did not need them to do your job, you would not have them," That served me well and those who heeded my advice. The old "My way or the highway" thing has not really worked for years.

 

[was21]

at heart....and they gave us Foglesong. Nothing against the little man personally, but just don't believe he was a wise choice for president of a public university...maybe he would have been successful as president of the Air Force academy. His personality and leadership style does not appear to be suited to the job he presently has. As far as what MSU is, it is what it is, and he apparently couldn't adapt to it....bailing out after about 17 months on the job....chances are, the same kind of mistake won't be made again.

 

[TaleofTwoDogs]

hook them up with the blonde in your photo. I'll put you on the Board of my company if you can give me a name and phone number. Big time Wow for the blondie.

 

[hunkerdawg]

[No message]

 

[dawgoneyall]

piece of crap should be fired yesterday.

 

[dawgoneyall]

by someone else, thus he is accountable to the someone else. God, I detest those lazy, arrogant superior bastards.

 

[dawgoneyall]

those two need to know they are petty idiots.

Just sayin'

 

[Indndawg]

esp by Constanza and Sad.
An entity w/2 heads is a freak and one w/no head is dead.

The U has to have leadership and I blv Doc was providing that. I'm thinkin' alot of these pointyheads had agendas even before they knew Doc that much-him being a military man, and most of the pointy heads loathe the military.

 

[3000lbchicken]

"The inmates can't run the asylum."

Most people on this board don't have any idea what it was like before Doc and what we're in for now.

Now we're going to have a "Doc" for each department, just like we did before. Each department acting independently without any concern for the the University as a whole.

 

[topdawg.sixpack]

Unfortunately the entire faculty gets a black eye for the faculty senate's antics and actions, which is the case at most every school. The FS is made up of the extreme of the extreme, who are never happy, constantly ***** about anything they can, and so on. They are the types that would ***** if you gave them a million dollars in one dollar bills. They get involved in FS because none of the dedicated, reasonable faculty members choose to do so, because they are doing better things, like teaching or research, or looking for the next research monies to bring in to MSU. Those types of people do not want to associate themselves with the FS because of the stigma they have, and the fact that it is a bunch of ********.

All faculty isnt worhless and irresponsible. In my time at State, I had many, many professors that were awesome in the classroom and their field. They accomplished very much, making a great impact on MSU and what not. I hate it when these type of people, the majority, are labled worthless and unaccountable, because that is simply not the case.

As for Wolverton, he is the best gift Doc Foglesong got when he came to MSU. Bob Wolverton is one of the most laid back FS Presidents in history, and did his best to keep those crazies in line. Can you imagine if Clyde Williams or Mark Goodman would have been FS Senate president during Doc's tenure, it would have been so damn bloody.

 

[3000lbchicken]

A lot have told me "I don't have time for those ego's".

And people think Doc had one.

 

[dawgoneyall]

lazy. Don't doubt it.

And what is this self-motivated BS? Most would not be professors if they were self-motivated.

 

[saddawg]

Cock leak, you know **** about me.

 

[saddawg]

I own my own company and it damn sure ain't gonna be anybody else's way.

 

[vorticityDawg]

Most would not be professors if they were self-motivated.

oh wait, you actually forgot the argument part. So, you don't think that being a professor sounds like a good job? You get to live in a college town, you get to be around, and influence, young people your entire career, you don't have to punch a clock. Despite popular opinion on here, I doubt you have to kiss as much *** as someone in the business world since you do not have a traditional "boss." If all else were equal, I think more people would choose academics than other fields. Instead, the relatively low pay, longer time for the degrees, and the requirement for lots of writing probably deter most people from ever even considering it.
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[davatron]

lazy. Don't doubt it.

And what is this self-motivated BS? Most would not be professors if they were self-motivated.

What?!?! Do you realize the enormous amount of work that goes into earning a Ph. D?
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Stop posting, now.
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[imminteract007]

As for Wolverton, he is the best gift Doc Foglesong got when he came to MSU. Bob Wolverton is one of the most laid back FS Presidents in history, and did his best to keep those crazies in line. Can you imagine if Clyde Williams or Mark Goodman would have been FS Senate president during Doc's tenure, it would have been so damn bloody.

Well, yes and no. Wolverton was ushered into that position by Doc, but actually wasn't the best choice for the position. The FS would have concerns that they would express to Wolverton, and Wolverton, being more of a "yes" man to Doc than anything else, would just fail to mention most of it to Doc. I can see how he got blindsided by everything.

Bottom line: the FS **** wasn't Doc's fault at all, except that he got Wolverton in there...and Wolverton 17'd everything up.

My theory on why Doc left (other than that Obama thing, haha)...he pissed off the wrong alum. Call "painting the stadium brown" a rumor, but Jim Jones announced a 3-4 year phased plan for renovating it, AND painting some of the exposed concrete that had rust damage from the metal above. A color "was yet to be determined," according to Jones. I think Davis Wade or the Seal family got wind of that and made it clear they'd walk if the stadium was painted **** brown in any way, just like Suttle Hall's exposed foundation (which will be demo'd in a year or so anyway).

And if you're going to get rid of rust stains on concrete, can't you just use CLR or some other more powerful method? Does concrete HAVE to be painted?</p>

 

[saddawg]

Creepy Clyde W. still around? What a wack job.He made poor ole Karscadian look normal.