IC Thread states UNC will be better than Duke!
- Thread starter peterjurkinsquirtsroywilliams
- Start date
Pinson fractured the fifth metatarsal in his right foot. Unfortunate injury for him, and something that will likely affect UNC's success this season. Who takes his place in the lineup? Also, does anyone know if this is similar to the problems Amile/Kyrie/Shav had?
Y'all knew it wouldn't be long before his true colors showed. He can't help it, he's a unx fan.
OFC
Roy is heading into his last few seasons as a head coach the way Spurrier just did. It's going to get ugly.
Look we have no way of proving what he did and didn't know. That's all I'm going to say there. I'm talking in terms of recruiting, I've never bought the notion that Roy is somehow more pure when it comes to recruiting than other coaches.
Same bone he broke in his left foot as well. No idea how long he'll be out for.
Nate Britt will likely take his spot, with Kenny Williams backing him up. However, I'd like to see Woods or Robinson step up as well.
Meth actually
I didn't say your pros were bad, but that you only have one true superstar and that's Kyrie Irving.
True. I'll concede we need to wait to see how their careers progress first. So the jury's still out. But it helps a lot that duke has had these OAD players, whether or not they've made an immediate impact.
That's why when Ingram went to duke I was pissed. I knew that not only could he have made our team damn near unbeatable, but him going to the draft would have done wonders for our recruiting and helped us create some star power in the league. He was from an area where Carolina has had a lot of success. That one hurt, no matter what gary tries to tell you.
CB...he knew, and when he called out Mary Willingham after his loss to Miami post game home presser 3 years ago and fried her to the Carolina beat guys he put his foot in it. Why??? Because MW said "fine Roy lets meet and talk about it." He declined....He told Andy Katz of ESPN "that's not my world." Come on over and put down out players, put down our pros, but Roy knew....
OFC
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I'm not putting down anyone down first of all. It's simply a debate about NBA success, which I admit I have a bias against duke in this regard. And I'm certainly not putting down this year's duke team.
Look you may be right, and he may have known. But unless something else comes out, it can't be proven. I'm not one of those "Roy can do no wrong" guys, he's human like the rest of us. But am I going to lambast him and call for his head? No.
He had to get rid of Wayne Walden at UNC because things were getting too dicey(Walden of course the academic adviser from Kansas who RW brought w/him). Plenty has already come out where Roy is connected, and when Walden is quoted as saying "I cant remember if I told RW about the clustering of basketball players in the AFAM classes," hey everybody knows....Rams Clubbers know, they chuckle about it, and having the $$ and Philadelphia lawyers to keep things staus quo..
Listen you dont want us to talk about the Plumlees in the NBA, I have a problem w/that too.. Thats one heckuva fine family and a family of great athletes....We'll talk about those 3 boys w/nattys in THE LEAGUE all we want.....How many do the Ware twins have?? Oh thats rite- they left didnt they??
OFC
Look man, I understand you root for my team's biggest rival. I get that in your mind, Roy 100% was in the know facilitating all of this. And the fact that we're probably not going to get much more than a slap on the wrist for this is infuriating too. But you're getting angry at the wrong guy here. I'm a fan, not a Rams clubber or a bigwig with a lot of dough for those Philadelphia lawyers. I just root for Carolina basketball and I love my team.
And when did I ever say I didn't want to talk about the Plumlees? I only said I didn't find them a great measuring stick for NBA success. Mason's doing well for the Trail Blazers, but Miles hasn't done much and I don't see Marshall being all that good either. We'll see.
And I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring up the Wear twins. They're irrelevant to this discussion.
1-its not in "my mind" ALONE about Roy's guilt,..You know that as well as I....I only brought up the scandal because you CHOSE to mention "Roy" and "his ethics" in the same sentence.
2- I do apologize for mentioning the Wear twins- simply siblings I thought of when you mentioned the Plumlees earlier today. Apparently I struck a nerve...
Carry on...
OFC
I mentioned Roy and his ethics in terms of recruiting, not because I wanted to go down a rabbit hole about the scandal.
Lol, you didn't strike a nerve, it just had no relevance to the conversation. I did not insult the Plumlees, or attack their character, I only said I didn't think they were a great example of duke's success in the NBA. That was the discussion.
No offense, but you're really taking my words out of context here.
CB "no offense" taken!! However do realize when you bring up "Roy and ethics" in the wake of the most widespread fraud case ever you run the risk of backlash on a rival board... It would work same way if I was to go on a UNC page if roles were reversed.. Thats my point....OFC
Just curious what players and what did they say.The only because be I am aware of was Mccants
You're correct in that we have a lack of recent star power in the NBA, but I do believe you are overstating yours. How many all stars have you had since Kyrie?
Not over-stating anything. Deng , too , is an all-star btw , but ya don't have to be an all-star to be a quality player. Geez Louise dude , look at Duke's guys...Deng , obviously , Kyrie , Jabari , RHood , JJ , Austin , Jahlil , Justise. And , as mentioned , K gets guys with little to no NBA prospects to the league...RKelly , McRoberts , Singler , Shav , GHenderson , DJones , LThomas. How 'bout the guys nearing or at the end of long NBA careers? Brand , Boozer , Battier , Dunleavy. Forget about it. Again , not over-stating anything. Duke is the NBA pipeline. Just is.
Thomas and McRoberts have never averaged more than 9 a game, and please do not use the Plumlee brothers as an example of overachieving NBA success.
Yeah. I will. Why wouldn't I? Anyone would. White American-borne basketball players in a league that ain't exactly filled with 'em. And btw...it looks like Marshall's gonna make it too while Paige and Tokoto both wash out but I digress. As I mentioned , it ain't all about big numbers and in the case of , say , Lance? Dude? Seriously? What was your NBA prediction for him? Exactly. Same as most. He'd never play a second in the league but here he is playing and contributing. You're absolutely delusional if ya don't think those guys are over-achieving NBA success stories.
.Ingram has technically never played a game, and we haven't seen enough of Okafor or Winslow to call either of them a success.
It's early but BOTH Okafor and Winslow are successes. Will it last? Who knows? Very early but as of now , they can play in the NBA. Justise...
http://www.si.com/nba/2016/10/21/ju...is-bosh-dwyane-wade?xid=socialflow_twitter_si
Way early on Ingram. Up and down in the pre-season but the skill set is there and he's young. Roy wanted 'im. Bad. There was a REASON for that. No one's "can't miss" but he's pretty close. Regardless , you're just hating. Yes. I agree with you. It's early. But from what we've seen , all 3 should have long NBA careers. Just because they just started doesn't mean ya can't offer some opinions as to their performances thus far.
Lol, do you really expect me to concede that Duke is the epitome of league success? I think not.
Why not? If it's true , it's true. Had unx beaten Nova , I woulda had to admit they were champs. Nuthin' I could do about it. And , yes , UK has it goin' too. I didn't say Duke was alone. But you're gonna ignore reality simply because it's Duke? Really?
I didn't say your pros were bad, but that you only have one true superstar and that's Kyrie Irving.
That's telling , like , only a fraction of the story though. How many "superstars" exist anyway? Look , Duke has an azzload of quality , contributing talent in the NBA. Is what it is. And here's the thing. For YEARS unx fans told Duke fans how great their pros were...especially compared to Duke's. I never understood it anyway. Yeah , it's nice to have good pros but I'm a DUKE fan. I'm not a "I want Duke players to ball out in the NBA" fan. Duke guy wins 5 NBA crowns? Nice. Good for him. But I'm interested in what he does while he's at DUKE. That's why this is so much fun now. The situation has been turned on its head and we get to watch you guys move the goalposts. lol.
And when did I ever say I didn't want to talk about the Plumlees? I only said I didn't find them a great measuring stick for NBA success. Mason's doing well for the Trail Blazers, but Miles hasn't done much and I don't see Marshall being all that good either. We'll see.
Seriously? What was their NBA projections? Pretty meager , right? No , they're not gonna be 20/10 guys. That's not the point. The fact both ( all THREE!!! ) are now there and contributing?!?!?! THAT is most definitely a feather in K's hat. Each won an NCAA title and each is cashing an NBA paycheck. That's pretty strong , recruiting-wise. "You're a OAD superstar? Great. Come to Duke , win & go league." "You're a role-player? Fine. Come to Duke and do the exact same thing."
Not over-stating anything. Deng , too , is an all-star btw , but ya don't have to be an all-star to be a quality player. Geez Louise dude , look at Duke's guys...Deng , obviously , Kyrie , Jabari , RHood , JJ , Austin , Jahlil , Justise. And , as mentioned , K gets guys with little to no NBA prospects to the league...RKelly , McRoberts , Singler , Shav , GHenderson , DJones , LThomas. How 'bout the guys nearing or at the end of long NBA careers? Brand , Boozer , Battier , Dunleavy. Forget about it. Again , not over-stating anything. Duke is the NBA pipeline. Just is.
Thomas and McRoberts have never averaged more than 9 a game, and please do not use the Plumlee brothers as an example of overachieving NBA success.
Yeah. I will. Why wouldn't I? Anyone would. White American-borne basketball players in a league that ain't exactly filled with 'em. And btw...it looks like Marshall's gonna make it too while Paige and Tokoto both wash out but I digress. As I mentioned , it ain't all about big numbers and in the case of , say , Lance? Dude? Seriously? What was your NBA prediction for him? Exactly. Same as most. He'd never play a second in the league but here he is playing and contributing. You're absolutely delusional if ya don't think those guys are over-achieving NBA success stories.
.Ingram has technically never played a game, and we haven't seen enough of Okafor or Winslow to call either of them a success.
It's early but BOTH Okafor and Winslow are successes. Will it last? Who knows? Very early but as of now , they can play in the NBA. Justise...
http://www.si.com/nba/2016/10/21/ju...is-bosh-dwyane-wade?xid=socialflow_twitter_si
Way early on Ingram. Up and down in the pre-season but the skill set is there and he's young. Roy wanted 'im. Bad. There was a REASON for that. No one's "can't miss" but he's pretty close. Regardless , you're just hating. Yes. I agree with you. It's early. But from what we've seen , all 3 should have long NBA careers. Just because they just started doesn't mean ya can't offer some opinions as to their performances thus far.
Lol, do you really expect me to concede that Duke is the epitome of league success? I think not.
Why not? If it's true , it's true. Had unx beaten Nova , I woulda had to admit they were champs. Nuthin' I could do about it. And , yes , UK has it goin' too. I didn't say Duke was alone. But you're gonna ignore reality simply because it's Duke? Really?
I didn't say your pros were bad, but that you only have one true superstar and that's Kyrie Irving.
That's telling , like , only a fraction of the story though. How many "superstars" exist anyway? Look , Duke has an azzload of quality , contributing talent in the NBA. Is what it is. And here's the thing. For YEARS unx fans told Duke fans how great their pros were...especially compared to Duke's. I never understood it anyway. Yeah , it's nice to have good pros but I'm a DUKE fan. I'm not a "I want Duke players to ball out in the NBA" fan. Duke guy wins 5 NBA crowns? Nice. Good for him. But I'm interested in what he does while he's at DUKE. That's why this is so much fun now. The situation has been turned on its head and we get to watch you guys move the goalposts. lol.
And when did I ever say I didn't want to talk about the Plumlees? I only said I didn't find them a great measuring stick for NBA success. Mason's doing well for the Trail Blazers, but Miles hasn't done much and I don't see Marshall being all that good either. We'll see.
Seriously? What was their NBA projections? Pretty meager , right? No , they're not gonna be 20/10 guys. That's not the point. The fact both ( all THREE!!! ) are now there and contributing?!?!?! THAT is most definitely a feather in K's hat. Each won an NCAA title and each is cashing an NBA paycheck. That's pretty strong , recruiting-wise. "You're a OAD superstar? Great. Come to Duke , win & go league." "You're a role-player? Fine. Come to Duke and do the exact same thing."
I understand that. I'm a fan from a rival board, I'm not going to be given any special treatment and I'm going to catch some jabs. I can handle it fine.
But in this situation I was referring to Roy's recruiting, becayse some on THR believe him to be a knight in shining armor because he doesn't deal with handlers, won't sell his soul for OADs, etc.
I think that's baloney. I love Roy, but I also think he's also willing to do whatever it takes to reel in top talent. If that means talking to handlers, so be it.
This had nothing to do with the scandal, you moved the conversation in that direction not me.
@DevilDJ
That's a long post to quote so I'll just reply here.
So if you're only interested in what the player does at duke why does the NBA matter here?
It's true our pros were better for a long time. We still have sizeable amount of talent in the league- Zeller, Henson, Barnes, Danny Green, Brice, Davis, Felton, Lawson, Bullock, Marvin, PJ, Wright, Ellington, even Carter in his old age.
However I wouldn't say your advantage now is overwhelming like the one we had over you when Jordan, Jamison, Carter, Stack, Rasheed, Fox, and Kenny Smith were all in the league at one time.
How can you say a player is a success after one year? Okafor may turn out to be a beast, and Winslow has a great upside. Ingram technically hasn't played a game yet so we'll wait and see there.
However, I don't believe simply being in the NBA and getting a small amount of minutes should be a standard or justify calling Duke the premiere NBA pipeline.
But why listen to me? I'm a biased Carolina fan who just found out one of our more dynamic players is out indefinitely, we can't pull in a top 20 recruit, and we're trying to pass off one of our three stars as the next coming of Antawn Jamison. Duke's got a lot going for it right now, including a potentially natty winning team and a program reeling in talent like no tomorrow alongside Kentucky.
It's a damn bitter pill to swallow. Alas, it is what it is. Part of rooting for a team, is sticking with them even in the lean times.
That's a long post to quote so I'll just reply here.
So if you're only interested in what the player does at duke why does the NBA matter here?
It's true our pros were better for a long time. We still have sizeable amount of talent in the league- Zeller, Henson, Barnes, Danny Green, Brice, Davis, Felton, Lawson, Bullock, Marvin, PJ, Wright, Ellington, even Carter in his old age.
However I wouldn't say your advantage now is overwhelming like the one we had over you when Jordan, Jamison, Carter, Stack, Rasheed, Fox, and Kenny Smith were all in the league at one time.
How can you say a player is a success after one year? Okafor may turn out to be a beast, and Winslow has a great upside. Ingram technically hasn't played a game yet so we'll wait and see there.
However, I don't believe simply being in the NBA and getting a small amount of minutes should be a standard or justify calling Duke the premiere NBA pipeline.
But why listen to me? I'm a biased Carolina fan who just found out one of our more dynamic players is out indefinitely, we can't pull in a top 20 recruit, and we're trying to pass off one of our three stars as the next coming of Antawn Jamison. Duke's got a lot going for it right now, including a potentially natty winning team and a program reeling in talent like no tomorrow alongside Kentucky.
It's a damn bitter pill to swallow. Alas, it is what it is. Part of rooting for a team, is sticking with them even in the lean times.
Here's the problem, though....the people at your board, by and large, are idiots.
Negative recruiting happens all the time. Everyone does it. Even Roy. Besides, handlers is a relatively made up term with a negative connotation. Not all "handlers" are saints and not all of them are bad guys. Besides, Roy ain't no saint, either. That's just people making up excuses for him not getting it done on the trail like he was a few years ago.
A lot of people at THR probably think Roy's farts don't stink too.
Roy not dealing with handlers is utter bs.Yall"s top recruit next year plays for Dion Bethea who is partners with Brian Clifton.Dion was also Brice"a handler.I don't know how long you have been around but THR had Clifton as public enemy one.You only deal with handlers that deliver recruits to you,That"s the Carolina Way
[QUOTE="carolinablue34, post: 11136429,
This had nothing to do with the scandal, you moved the conversation in that direction not me.[/QUOTE]
True we were talking "handlers" etc, BUT whenever you mention "Roy and Ethics" in the same sentence you TRULY run the risk of a SEGUE into the scandal...Sorry CB, you opened the door... Also glad Devil DJ gave props to the Plums, and Luol Deng!!! OFC
This had nothing to do with the scandal, you moved the conversation in that direction not me.[/QUOTE]
True we were talking "handlers" etc, BUT whenever you mention "Roy and Ethics" in the same sentence you TRULY run the risk of a SEGUE into the scandal...Sorry CB, you opened the door... Also glad Devil DJ gave props to the Plums, and Luol Deng!!! OFC
So if you're only interested in what the player does at duke why does the NBA matter here?
Seriously? It matters because...oh , I dunno...we happen to be discussing it? There is absolutely zero point in you posting that question.
However I wouldn't say your advantage now is overwhelming like the one we had over you when Jordan, Jamison, Carter, Stack, Rasheed, Fox, and Kenny Smith were all in the league at one time.
See? Still doin' it? Livin' in a time that no longer exists. #carolinaway. Duke's pros...as of TODAY...are decidedly better than unx's. An "advantage" is an "advantage." End of story. I suppose I could take your post and ask how many of those guys would've gone to unx and/or stayed eligible without decades of cheating or point out why unx only won 3 tainted titles DESPITE having the best NBA-ready talent money can buy but I'll just let that go for now.
How can you say a player is a success after one year? Okafor may turn out to be a beast, and Winslow has a great upside. Ingram technically hasn't played a game yet so we'll wait and see there.
How? Easily. As of now...RIGHT NOW!...Winslow and Okafor are successes. If neither made it or had performed poorly thus far , you'd damn-sure call 'em "failures." So , again , for the time being , both are successes.
However, I don't believe simply being in the NBA and getting a small amount of minutes should be a standard or justify calling Duke the premiere NBA pipeline.
LMMFAO! Moving the goalposts. Again. Why? Because Duke is kickin' unx's azz both on the court , in recruiting and in NBA product. For every OVER-ACHIEVING Duke player in the league who plays limited minutes , there's bigger stars logging more PT. Dude. Stop it. Ya can't throw a rock without hittin' a Blue Devil in the league. Heck , in sheer numbers alone , don't they have the most? If not , Duke is damn-close to having the most players in the league. Geez Louise , you're just being willfully obtuse. unx fans whine like children because K signs the elites that Roy misses. Your fanbase even lies about it. "We want real student athletes. We're not like K and Cal yada yada yada." Want about a half-dozen links quoting Roy on the subject? He's on record as recruiting the SAME kids Duke/UK/etc go after , he's just missing. Never mind the "life-in-the-tarhole-bubble" idiocy of unx fans claiming any kinda moral/academic superiority over anyone ( even Cal! ) but I digress.
But why listen to me? I'm a biased Carolina fan who just found out one of our more dynamic players is out indefinitely, we can't pull in a top 20 recruit, and we're trying to pass off one of our three stars as the next coming of Antawn Jamison. Duke's got a lot going for it right now, including a potentially natty winning team and a program reeling in talent like no tomorrow alongside Kentucky.
THIS is what ya shoulda said to begin with. I kinda feel bad about bustin' all over your post now...kinda.
Seriously? It matters because...oh , I dunno...we happen to be discussing it? There is absolutely zero point in you posting that question.
However I wouldn't say your advantage now is overwhelming like the one we had over you when Jordan, Jamison, Carter, Stack, Rasheed, Fox, and Kenny Smith were all in the league at one time.
See? Still doin' it? Livin' in a time that no longer exists. #carolinaway. Duke's pros...as of TODAY...are decidedly better than unx's. An "advantage" is an "advantage." End of story. I suppose I could take your post and ask how many of those guys would've gone to unx and/or stayed eligible without decades of cheating or point out why unx only won 3 tainted titles DESPITE having the best NBA-ready talent money can buy but I'll just let that go for now.
How can you say a player is a success after one year? Okafor may turn out to be a beast, and Winslow has a great upside. Ingram technically hasn't played a game yet so we'll wait and see there.
How? Easily. As of now...RIGHT NOW!...Winslow and Okafor are successes. If neither made it or had performed poorly thus far , you'd damn-sure call 'em "failures." So , again , for the time being , both are successes.
However, I don't believe simply being in the NBA and getting a small amount of minutes should be a standard or justify calling Duke the premiere NBA pipeline.
LMMFAO! Moving the goalposts. Again. Why? Because Duke is kickin' unx's azz both on the court , in recruiting and in NBA product. For every OVER-ACHIEVING Duke player in the league who plays limited minutes , there's bigger stars logging more PT. Dude. Stop it. Ya can't throw a rock without hittin' a Blue Devil in the league. Heck , in sheer numbers alone , don't they have the most? If not , Duke is damn-close to having the most players in the league. Geez Louise , you're just being willfully obtuse. unx fans whine like children because K signs the elites that Roy misses. Your fanbase even lies about it. "We want real student athletes. We're not like K and Cal yada yada yada." Want about a half-dozen links quoting Roy on the subject? He's on record as recruiting the SAME kids Duke/UK/etc go after , he's just missing. Never mind the "life-in-the-tarhole-bubble" idiocy of unx fans claiming any kinda moral/academic superiority over anyone ( even Cal! ) but I digress.
But why listen to me? I'm a biased Carolina fan who just found out one of our more dynamic players is out indefinitely, we can't pull in a top 20 recruit, and we're trying to pass off one of our three stars as the next coming of Antawn Jamison. Duke's got a lot going for it right now, including a potentially natty winning team and a program reeling in talent like no tomorrow alongside Kentucky.
THIS is what ya shoulda said to begin with. I kinda feel bad about bustin' all over your post now...kinda.
And , yes , the "Roy doesn't deal with handlers" mantra is pure myth....gospel from "The Krazy Karolina Fakbuk..."
"It depends on the situation," North Carolina Coach Roy Williams said. "It varies for each player. Some summer coaches we have had a great deal of contact with, and others we don't do as much with. My first concern is the families. Then it depends on who is important to the kid. I try to determine who will have an influence, have a vocal time with a player."
http://www.tarheelblog.com/2009/2/18/758861/gary-williams-and-maryland
"It depends on the situation," North Carolina Coach Roy Williams said. "It varies for each player. Some summer coaches we have had a great deal of contact with, and others we don't do as much with. My first concern is the families. Then it depends on who is important to the kid. I try to determine who will have an influence, have a vocal time with a player."
http://www.tarheelblog.com/2009/2/18/758861/gary-williams-and-maryland
@DevilDJ
I have never shied away from the fact that Roy goes after the same players that K and Cal does. We're missing lately, plain and simple. No one can deny that. Everything else you hear the fanatics on THR say is just excuses. Or the fact that he'll deal with the same kind of people some claim he doesn't talk to. However, I do think he makes a genuine effort to get to know the kids he recruits and their families. He's a hard worker but he hasn't been closing lately. Nothing more to be said.
As for why we only won 3 titles? Idk, how come K has only won 5 with the talent he's had? I'm not interested in talking about the scandal, it serves no purpose here because we both know how that conversation is going to go.
Dude, if this situation were reverse I'd probably bragging it up too. It's the nature of the rivalry. I'm probably being obtuse because that's really all I can do in this situation. Never thought I'd say that coming off a championship appearance. But what can you do? You have to stick with your team in the leaner times, and take the heat from opposing fans in the process. I still love college hoops, and I don't mind talking about it with rival fans, even if I take a ribbing now and then.
I have never shied away from the fact that Roy goes after the same players that K and Cal does. We're missing lately, plain and simple. No one can deny that. Everything else you hear the fanatics on THR say is just excuses. Or the fact that he'll deal with the same kind of people some claim he doesn't talk to. However, I do think he makes a genuine effort to get to know the kids he recruits and their families. He's a hard worker but he hasn't been closing lately. Nothing more to be said.
As for why we only won 3 titles? Idk, how come K has only won 5 with the talent he's had? I'm not interested in talking about the scandal, it serves no purpose here because we both know how that conversation is going to go.
Dude, if this situation were reverse I'd probably bragging it up too. It's the nature of the rivalry. I'm probably being obtuse because that's really all I can do in this situation. Never thought I'd say that coming off a championship appearance. But what can you do? You have to stick with your team in the leaner times, and take the heat from opposing fans in the process. I still love college hoops, and I don't mind talking about it with rival fans, even if I take a ribbing now and then.
Yep, according to gary, Steat and DSouthr they are "glad" that Ingram didn't go to UNC because he would have been a ball hog that was only worried about auditioning for the NBA and would have ruined team chemistry. LOL!
I think that is fair at this point. I think a couple of recent players are heading to be stars but they have a ways to go.Meth actually
I didn't say your pros were bad, but that you only have one true superstar and that's Kyrie Irving.
Wow. I thought he would be an all time great. I wonder what happened. He could shoot the 3, play in your nose defense, had that great hulk down after a dunk and probably the greatest stare down I have ever seen. Looks like some team would take him just to stand on the side lines and stare at all the opposing players that come running by. I know it would scare the crap out of me. OFC
Apparently Hansflop is outta the league too. According to his Wikipedia page ( the only place I found any info on it ) , he plays in Belgrade for Crvena Zvezda MTS...whatever that is. I checked their website and the league's website. No mention of 'im and he's not on their roster.
I was just thinking the same thing. Kid had a lot of promise and not the right attitude to match.
May see him in the YMCA leagues smacking some high school kids around. I wonder if hof coach roy williams still has that real nice house he can let pj stay in until he makes it back into the league.
OFC
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