If brought back up for a vote, would you support changing the State of MS Flag?

[BiloxiDawg]

I am only asking because of the impact to our sporting events... They mentioned it on 30 for 30 last night. I voted in support of keeping our current flag the last time it was brought up, mainly b/c I thought the alternative was garbage, but in all honesty I do think we need a new flag. I love history and all, but many times it only belongs in museums and history books when there is so much heartache and embarrassment over certain symbols.

We had to play a home Basketball game in Birmingham (what was that, two seasons ago?) all b/c of our flag... is it worth it?

The flag was also brought up when it was discussed about playing the SEC Baseball Tournament at Pearl... "the SEC decided several years ago that Mississippi's flag would be a factor considered if the state bids for championship events" http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2010/...ss-flag-harm-states-bid-sec-baseball-tourney/

 

[seshomoru]

The ice is super thin on this one. Play nice.

 

[Sutterkane]

ANYTHING is better than the current flag. Say what you want about the alternatives, but the current flag is one thing that is holding the entire state back and doesn't reflect a "proud heritage" for a lot of residents regardless of what it may represent for a set of people.

 

[seshomoru]

Agree. Should have been changed decades ago.

 

[slickdawg]

Absolutely.

Even Lynyrd Skynyrd dropped the rebel flag:

“Through the years, people like the KKK and skinheads and people have kinda kidnapped the Dixie or rebel flag from the Southern tradition and the heritage of the soldiers, you know, that’s what it was about and they kind of made it look kind of bad in certain ways,” Lynyrd Skynyrd guitarist Gary Rossington told CNN. “We didn’t want that to go to our fans or show the image like we agreed with any of the race stuff or any of the bad things.”

 

[TulsaLawDawg]

Was on campus when that went down. Voted to keep it then, and would vote to keep it now.

 

[dawgdr]

For sure. Time to move on. No one likes being told what to do, but it is time. Go to shiloh and see all the confederates thrown in a ditch makes me ill, but so do the films of how people in the state and south acted during 50s and 60s.

 

[patdog]

I voted against the current flag when it came up for a vote a decade or so ago and I would vote against it again. Why we would insist on keeping a butt ugly flag that holds the state back economically is beyond me. But it's not going to ever change. At least not any time soon.

 

[Shmuley]

If you go back and review the county by county vote results from the 2001 referendum, you discover that the damn thing carried Washington County 51-49. If you barely carry a county where upwards of 60% of the voting age in the county is black, then how are you going to ever carry the state? Seems to me the folks in Mississippi see it as more of a pride thing. Seriously, Yazoo County was 50/50. Yazoo County. Think about that.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

I voted to change it, for a matter of peace and harmony...

The odd thing to me was that the Delta area voters did not vote to change it. It's like they did not vote.

Sort of like it was a non issue.

 

[patdog]

That really surprised me in that election. Everybody was making a big deal about it, and still do, but apparently the black people in Mississippi didn't really care that much. I'm still a little suspicous that the alternative flag was intentionally designed to be even uglier than the current one to discourage people from voting for it.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

Here is what would have to be done. It would have to a grassroots effort from inside the state with a decent alternative.

A huge problem with changing it last time, and the reason it was voted down in the number it was, is that there were groups of people and organizations from outside the state pulling for the change. Keeping the current flag was practically intended as a middle finger to these people and organizations in a "you can't tell us what to do" fashion.

Keep out of state talking heads out of it and make a grassroots effort to do it with a good alternative and it could be done.

 

[Sutterkane]

Care to elaborate why? Nobody is saying you can't have the flag flying on your personal residence or on your car as a sticker, etc.

 

[TheDawgOfWar]

I love history. It is something to never let go good or bad. The flag has changed many times.

But the thing to consider is the Confederate Battle Flag was what represented the Confederacy. That flag was incorporated into the new flag in 1894 during Jim Crow times.

Two sites with history of flag...
http://www.mcsr.olemiss.edu/~mudws/flag/history.htm
http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/flags/ms_flag.htm

The proposed replacement flag was:
http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/flags/images/ms_2001.gif

It may be "heritage" to some but what does it speak of? The Good ole days? What days were those for some? To some it represents a constant reminder of a time when others were treated as property and as second class.

We are what represent the best of the south. Not a flag. Our heritage is one of yes mam and no mam, respect, courtesy, and family. That is for any and all.

I say retire it in to posterity and bring about a new era.

I would vote yes for a new flag. Added: And did back the too.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I voted for the proposed new flag back in '01 and would vote for a new flag again. I bought the then-business argument that was made. With that being said, I also know a lot of people who voted for it-- as well as someone who was a really prominent supporter of the state flag during the flag referendum (and was interviewed by national media type folks).

I think the Flag Commission made a major mis-step. Instead of creating a new flag, they should have tried to revert back to the Magnolia Flag. I think it would have defused the Sons of Confederate Veterans' "heritage not hate" argument (note: I am a former member of the SCV) in that the new state flag would be the flag of the state of Mississippi during the Civil War-- thus acknowledging the SCV heritage and history argument while at the same time removing the battle flag emblem that offends so many people.

The SCV ran a masterful campaign back in 2001. They made voting for the current flag to be something akin to being in favor of America, Apple Pie, and Beer. The pro-new flag campaign by comparison was not any good at all.

 

[dawgatUSM]

I was a month or two out from being able to vote...

But I would have voted to get rid of it, and I am as conservative as they come. I just don't buy all the business of that flag is about "heritage"... Maybe it is about heritage, but it is a racist heritage, if you ask me. So, I still wish we would change it.

 

[FlabLoser]

The embedded confed flag was established out of spite. Over the years its been accepted by most...well maybe half...ok by a lot, as tradition.

But overall, the benefits of getting rid of it are greater than whatever merit there is in keeping it.

I say get rid of it.

 

[TulsaLawDawg]

I remember them interviewing people after the vote and one particular comment made by a black man stuck with me. I paraphrase loosely, but it was to the effect of "I voted to keep the flag because that is the flag I went to school under. I've never been a slave... never met someone who owned slaves. Never met a man who stated he wanted to have slaves if he could. I just don't appreciate people coming into my state to start issues that don't exist anymore."

For what it's worth, I no longer live in Mississippi. I'm proud of being from there and every once in awhile I wear Mississippi flag cuff links to court. Similar to the guy I just quoted, I'm ok with the people of a State choosing when they want to change their image. I have a big problem with external agencies, including the NCAA, stirring up problems that are gone.

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

I'd like to know how often the average person actually thinks about their....

state flag. As many things are going on in not only this state, but entire country, is it really a piece of cloth that's holding us back? If it wasn't the flag, the NCAA and the rest of the media driven **** stirrers would have something else negative to say about us. Let's not kid ourselves here. Is the flag making our citizens the fattest and most out of shape in the country? Is it the flag that's holding back our students? I guess parents would take better interest in their kids' learning and development if only we changed that pesky flag. And as for the NCAA, since when do we stop and listen to their point of view? They're incoherent about 99% of their policies and let's be real here. They have an agenda that outreaches state flags and such. Remember, the last thing they want is conferences in the south to continue dominating baseball. They've made every effort possible to promote and try and spread the excitement to other parts of the country to absolutely no avail. What's the average attendance for a baseball game at say Penn State? It is today more than likely what it was 30 years ago and won't change. But that doesn't stop their agenda from being forced down. I'm all for good harmony among people. I'm all for everyone being able to take pride in their state flag and if changing it is the solution and end all answer, then I'm perfectly fine with that. But let's not kid ourselves and think the nation, the NCAA, and other groups are going to suddenly promote Mississippi and quit screwing us around like always.

 

[AFDawg]

The last time around I voted to keep the current flag, but now I'd vote to change it. I favor the pre-1894 flag. The state flag needs to be something the whole state can be proud of.

 

[00Dawg]

Nope, but I'm one of those people who doesn't appreciate the non-offensive tilt of post-modern society. I'm also not a resident anymore, either.

On a related note, it ticks me off anytime the NCAA, let alone the SEC, gets involved in politics. I don't like their strong arm tactics over mascots, which I view in the same vein as the flag issue.
If the opposition had been smart, they would've never even considered any type of boycott, but simply taken the long view and worked quietly with natives to get the original magnolia flag restored. Unfortunately very few organizations these days have leaders that can convince people to take the long view.

 

[TulsaLawDawg]

I'm trying to keep from being the guy that gets this threat locked

But bottom line, I didn't care for the way the vote then even came up. It essentially started with NAACP going ape **** over a different state's use of the confederate flag. If I recall correctly, I believe it was SC. Then GA. There was this movement and pressure for MS to change the flag. Instead of our legislature just canning the thing, they did what in my opinion, was the most noble and democratic way to handle it - they put it to a vote. Keep in mind, we aren't Utah, so the vote easily could have canned the flag. In fact, I may be mistaken, but the current flag was actually not "officially" the state flag so when the vote came up, it was not just a vote to change the official state flag, but to actually pick one of the two.

I'm a federalist by nature. I just think the people of a State should make their own decisions regarding state issues. If the people of the State of MS want a new flag, then go for it. I just have beef with entitites like the NCAA creating problems. Yes.. NCAA.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

I hated the design of the flag proposed in 2001. I would support a return to the Magnolia Flag if I still lived in MS.

 

[TUSK.sixpack]

I never have understood how inanimate objects could actually be "racist(s)"...

 

[Sutterkane]

I'd like to know why you think they are screwing us if it's not for a flag

 

[RougeDawg]

He who opposed this flag for the aforementioned reasons of similar...

Issues should also vote to change the US flag because it was flying a lot earlier in this nation over the same issues that people have associated with the confederate flag. People are associating racism and hate with the CF, so why not bring up the fact that our original national flag flew long before the CF was ever created?

The flag is our history. You dont have to agree with it, but no one can go back and change what happened. You can't change the past, and you also can't forget it completely. the CF symbolizes a division amongst a nation over things that most citizens haven't the slightest clue over. The War was never about the issue of slavery. We need education on what actually happened; cause and effects and this issue would be dropped. Yet we allow certain special interest groups run their mouths about what they want you to believe the flag stands for.

What if all these terrible groups had used a the Old Glory instead? Do you think the entire nation would vote to overturn it? What if some radical hate group on east Asia starts using old glory as their symbol of destruction? You think Europe, Canada and our other trade partners going to start boycotting us for the actions of some group over which we had/have no control?

To me it's an ignorant/uneducated bias way of one group using a controversial issue/time of American history to flex their muscle and show what great power they have. If the NCAA felt that strongly about it, they'd stop putting their stamp on schools in Mississippi.

Why haven't they bitched about Alabama's state flag? After being in Tuscaloosa this past weekend and seeing it, I instantly thought confederate flag when I saw it. Just alternate colors.

Plus the people of Mississippi have spoken already. It's outsiders who continue to bring up the issues surrounding it and try to make changes.

 

[Incognegro]

I'm with you on that. I don't see the flag itself as racist. It's more unfortunate the dumbasses that use the flag as a symbol for their vitriol. But I also have a lot of relatives that when they look at the flag, they're constantly reminded of a time where they were less than equal. Even though the flag itself isn't racist, because it can act as a constant reminder for many is one of the main reasons I'd vote for it to change. That, and the added economic value of it.

 

[Sutterkane]

You mean like the swastika?

 

[coach66]

I voted to change it the last time so yes I would vote that way again but I must

say and I don't want to get too political that the biggest mistake this country ever made was slavery.
The second biggest mistake was not educating African Americans and bringing them into the mainstream after the civil war was over. Those decisions have cost and continue to cost this country unbelievable amounts of money and pain. Our forefathers we some dumb bastards in some regards.

 

[Incognegro]

...you do know the origins of the swastika right?

 

[BIG_SLEAZY_DAWG]

Replace it. This is similar to counties that are still dry in my opinion. People that want to keep the current flag are living in the past and hurting Mississippi just like those who refuse to let their county sell booze. Mississippi has come a long ways but there is still a lot of people living a backwards style of life.

 

[ckDOG]

I never developed a strong opinion one way or the other on this...

But if I were to choose, the impact on sporting events would be way down my list of considerations. Change shouldn't be made because of the NCAA's ignorance.

 

[Big Sheep81]

The original flag was a magnolia tree on a blue field. No problem going back.

No new designs, just use the historical flag. Nobody should be offended by that.

 

[saltslugs]

What if it where a white guy hanging a black guy posted on a flag? Obviously, that's way over the top. But clearly that would be an inanimate object that would elicit negative feelings.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Thats kind of how I feel. Really don't care if the NCAA thinks that way. I say keep it.

 

[seshomoru]

Which makes it a pretty good example of why the flag should go.

Despite it's wide use in Buddhist and Hindu culture and religion, it was co-opted by one of the worst movements in all of human history. Despite what it originally was used for, in Western culture it is a symbol of hatred. That's how many view the flag. However it began and whatever it stood for originally, it was used in the civil rights era as a symbol of segregation and racism. No amount of arguing for pride and heritage can ever remove the images of the 50's and 60's in Mississippi. The flag became the symbol of the biggest stain in Southern Culture. Maybe that's not fair, but that's how it is.

 

[ckDOG]

The actions of a few *** holes always ruin it for the reasonable folks.

The swastika had benevolent connotations before Hitler hijacked it. I certainly wouldn't be the first in line defending its use before the Nazis grabbed it - at least not its use in the Western world. There's definitely arguments to be made for keeping the CF, but you can't deny that wacko fringe groups using it in their symbolism doesn't help the cause of keeping it. Hate-groups' known use of the CF would easily be the biggest factor in me deciding to vote for a new flag...

 

[patdog]

It's origins don't have anything to do with what it means after WWII. The meanings of things change over time. The swastika is a prime example of that.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

They came back a couple of days later and said they would continue to use it.

 

[Incognegro]

That's not the point of my question. I was asking because I wasn't sure if he was inferring that the swastika was racist from it's inception or if it eventually adopted when the Nazis decided to claim it.

Besides, plenty of Asian cultures still use the symbol in contemporary usage simply because they still see the symbol as it was initially intended. However, many people outside of their boarders have been complaining about their usage which is putting them under some (very small amount) pressure to potentially discontinue any usage, but I doubt that will happen.

Regardless... I'm all for changing the flag as I stated earlier, but I also don't have any issue with people that sees it for what it was initially intended for either.