If Colleges and Universities will not uphold the basic freedoms afforded by our Constitution

[WVPATX]

Is Trump right to withhold federal grants until they begin to act according to the law of the land, our Constitution? Cal Berkeley gets a huge amount of federal money for research. It can be cut off in a New York second. Should Trump make an example of Cal Berkeley?

As we all know, Milo spoke at WVU. President Gee hates Milo but acknowledged his free speech rights. I am proud of our university for upholding principles far more important than Milo.

I communicated with Gee about this issue. He was very gracious. He explained his dislike for Milo but pledged to continue to reinforce our most fundamental rights as long as he is President. He is a man of honor.

BTW, I don't like Milo, think he is a provocateur, using these speeches to gin up money and sell his books.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

BTW, I don't like Milo, think he is a provocateur, using these speeches to gin up money and sell his books.

What about the content of his speech, how do you feel about that?

I watched the YouTube video of his WVU speech and was appalled and turned it off after a few minutes. I got all I needed to know about this guy in the first 5 minutes.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Is Trump right to withhold federal grants until they begin to act according to the law of the land, our Constitution? Cal Berkeley gets a huge amount of federal money for research. It can be cut off in a New York second. Should Trump make an example of Cal Berkeley?

As we all know, Milo spoke at WVU. President Gee hates Milo but acknowledged his free speech rights. I am proud of our university for upholding principles far more important than Milo.

I communicated with Gee about this issue. He was very gracious. He explained his dislike for Milo but pledged to continue to reinforce our most fundamental rights as long as he is President. He is a man of honor.

BTW, I don't like Milo, think he is a provocateur, using these speeches to gin up money and sell his books.

How is this Cal - Berkeley's fault?

 

[moe]

Is Trump right to withhold federal grants until they begin to act according to the law of the land, our Constitution? Cal Berkeley gets a huge amount of federal money for research. It can be cut off in a New York second. Should Trump make an example of Cal Berkeley?

As we all know, Milo spoke at WVU. President Gee hates Milo but acknowledged his free speech rights. I am proud of our university for upholding principles far more important than Milo.

I communicated with Gee about this issue. He was very gracious. He explained his dislike for Milo but pledged to continue to reinforce our most fundamental rights as long as he is President. He is a man of honor.

BTW, I don't like Milo, think he is a provocateur, using these speeches to gin up money and sell his books.

Oh the outrage. How about the student protestors' right to free speech? I'm sure the campus and local police can handle the modest unrest associated with this event. So what if that guy's talk got cancelled. Your overreaction to this (and about everything) is typical.

 

[CAJUNEER_rivals]

How is this Cal - Berkeley's fault?

In theory failure to provide adequate security.

 

[WVPATX]

What about the content of his speech, how do you feel about that?

I watched the YouTube video of his WVU speech and was appalled and turned it off after a few minutes. I got all I needed to know about this guy in the first 5 minutes.

Content is not the issue, nor actually very important. The First Amendment is meant to protect speech, even speech that is very offensive. You may want to read a few Supreme Court decisions on this very topic. This one is particularly relevant. No more disgusting speech than this, Imo.

https://www.myheritage.org/news/supreme-court-protects-‘even-hurtful-speech’/

 

[CAJUNEER_rivals]

Is Trump right to withhold federal grants until they begin to act according to the law of the land, our Constitution? Cal Berkeley gets a huge amount of federal money for research. It can be cut off in a New York second. Should Trump make an example of Cal Berkeley?

As we all know, Milo spoke at WVU. President Gee hates Milo but acknowledged his free speech rights. I am proud of our university for upholding principles far more important than Milo.

I communicated with Gee about this issue. He was very gracious. He explained his dislike for Milo but pledged to continue to reinforce our most fundamental rights as long as he is President. He is a man of honor.

BTW, I don't like Milo, think he is a provocateur, using these speeches to gin up money and sell his books.

One might consider posturing on behalf of Ben Shapiro. Milo Yiannopoulos? Not so much.

 

[WVPATX]

How is this Cal - Berkeley's fault?

They did not provide security. They forced the club hosting the event to pay for security. No students punished. Several injuries. And this has happened all over the country. Until a university knows that their financials are at stake, this will continue to happen.

Universities provide safe spaces for offended students (as does Cal Berkeley). What about safe spaces for free speech?

 

[ThatNehlenFeelin]

I hope Trump defunds Pitt football

 

[WVPATX]

One might consider posturing on behalf of Ben Shapiro. Milo Yiannopoulos? Not so much.

But then you get into content of speech. That is not our first Amendment.

https://www.myheritage.org/news/supreme-court-protects-‘even-hurtful-speech’/

Once you start drawing a line about what offensive speech is free speech and what offensive speech is not free speech, we are in deep trouble.

 

[TarHeelEer]

What about the content of his speech, how do you feel about that?

I watched the YouTube video of his WVU speech and was appalled and turned it off after a few minutes. I got all I needed to know about this guy in the first 5 minutes.

So your next move was to torch your house, right?

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

So your next move was to torch your house, right?

Show me where I said that.

 

[moe]

No students punished

Really? (meaning student protestors/rioters).

 

[TarHeelEer]

Show me where I said that.

sigh. Nevermind, carry on

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

Content is not the issue, nor actually very important. The First Amendment is meant to protect speech, even speech that is very offensive. You may want to read a few Supreme Court decisions on this very topic. This one is particularly relevant. No more disgusting speech than this, Imo.

https://www.myheritage.org/news/supreme-court-protects-‘even-hurtful-speech’/

I didn't ask about the content, only your opinion of it.

 

[WVPATX]

Oh the outrage. How about the student protestors' right to free speech? I'm sure the campus and local police can handle the modest unrest associated with this event. So what if that guy's talk got cancelled. Your overreaction to this (and about everything) is typical.

The protesters are very much allowed to protest. What they are not permitted to do is riot, destroy property, injure people, threaten people, knock down barricades, and force the cancellation of the speech out of security concerns. Frankly, shocked that you can't see or even acknowledge this.

You're being very hypocritical. If this happened to a leftist, you would be up in arms. If Condi Rice, who had to cancel a commencement speech, was a Hillary Clinton, you would have rightfully been appalled.

 

[WVPATX]

I didn't ask about the content, only your opinion of it.

From my very first post in this thread:

BTW, I don't like Milo, think he is a provocateur, using these speeches to gin up money and sell his books.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

sigh. Nevermind, carry on

You implied that I supported violence against speech in some way. Am I to take that another way?

 

[TarHeelEer]

You implied that I supported violence against speech in some way. Am I to take that another way?

Not what I implied. I implied you didn't, that you didn't burn your house down after listening to a conservative firebrand.

 

[moe]

The protesters are very much allowed to protest. What they are not permitted to do is riot, destroy property, injure people, threaten people, knock down barricades, and force the cancellation of the speech out of security concerns. Frankly, shocked that you can't see or even acknowledge this.

You're being very hypocritical. If this happened to a leftist, you would be up in arms. If Condi Rice, who had to cancel a commencement speech, was a Hillary Clinton, you would have rightfully been appalled.

Actually I don't care about any of it but I'm bored and thus responding. The police or campus security handle unruly students, that stuff happens all the time. How about all of the college kids that are going to class (99.9% of colleges/universities) and it's just another day all over the country? Don't get too caught up in a minor dustup here or there, it's not a big deal. It probably helps Milo sell more books. If people weren't raising hell about this guy I would have never heard of him and I still don't know anything about him other than he's a gay male conservative I guess.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

They did not provide security. They forced the club hosting the event to pay for security. No students punished. Several injuries. And this has happened all over the country. Until a university knows that their financials are at stake, this will continue to happen.

Universities provide safe spaces for offended students (as does Cal Berkeley). What about safe spaces for free speech?

Did the club sponsor him to come or did the University? I wonder if Milo would be up to doing these talks via the web. I'm guessing cancellations are better for his bottom (no pun intended) line.

I'm all for withholding federal money for any school/hospital/whatheshitever that does not uphold "basic freedoms afforded by our Constitution" Just don't, at this time, see how this event reaches that threshold.

 

[WVPATX]

Actually I don't care about any of it but I'm bored and thus responding. The police or campus security handle unruly students, that stuff happens all the time. How about all of the college kids that are going to class (99.9% of colleges/universities) and it's just another day all over the country? Don't get too caught up in a minor dustup here or there, it's not a big deal.

Again, if leftist were being denied the opportunity to speak, you would be one of the first on this board to register your opinion. I, frankly, would support your position.

Is really is sad, when we can't agree on the fundamental principles of preserving the First Amendment even when we disagree with that speech. If this was a one off thing, I might agree with you. But it is happening with increasing frequency all over the country and not just with Milo, but many others including Condi Rice, Ben Carson, George Will, Jason Riley, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ben Shapiro, etc.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

Not what I implied. I implied you didn't, that you didn't burn your house down after listening to a conservative firebrand.

OK, got it.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

From my very first post in this thread:

BTW, I don't like Milo, think he is a provocateur, using these speeches to gin up money and sell his books.

That is your opinion about Milo, the person. What is your opinion on what Milo actually says; they're two different things, in my opinion.

 

[WVPATX]

That is your opinion about Milo, the person. What is your opinion on what Milo actually says; they're two different things, in my opinion.

I haven't heard him speak and would not attend. So I am in no position to answer. The snippets I've heard about mocking "fat people" and others is offensive. His title is a "provocateur" and I guess he is good at it since he is getting so much publicity.

Having said this, I would certainly defend his right to speak and be as obnoxious as he wishes. People can choose to attend, not attend and even protest, but not STOP the speech.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

I haven't heard him speak and would not attend. So I am in no position to answer. The snippets I've heard about mocking "fat people" and others is offensive. His title is a "provocateur" and I guess he is good at it since he is getting so much publicity.

Having said this, I would certainly defend his right to speak and be as obnoxious as he wishes. People can choose to attend, not attend and even protest, but not STOP the speech.

Agree. And violence should be totally off the table.

 

[TarHeelEer]

That is your opinion about Milo, the person. What is your opinion on what Milo actually says; they're two different things, in my opinion.

Milo's public personnae is appalling. Doesn't mean you burn down your university.

 

[moe]

Again, if leftist were being denied the opportunity to speak, you would be one of the first on this board to register your opinion. I, frankly, would support your position.

Is really is sad, when we can't agree on the fundamental principles of preserving the First Amendment even when we disagree with that speech. If this was a one off thing, I might agree with you. But it is happening with increasing frequency all over the country and not just with Milo, but many others including Condi Rice, Ben Carson, George Will, Jason Riley, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ben Shapiro, etc.

Some colleges may raise hell if a conservative speaker comes to their campus and others like WVU have no problems. Maybe campus speaking tours just aren't good ideas for everyone. It's not like these speakers can't get their message out there in other locations and in other ways. BTW, I'd give a big shoulder shrug if this happened to Hillary or any left leaning speaker, stuff happens.

 

[WVPATX]

Some colleges may raise hell if a conservative speaker comes to their campus and others like WVU have no problems. Maybe campus speaking tours just aren't good ideas for everyone. It's not like these speakers can't get their message out there in other locations and in other ways. BTW, I'd give a big shoulder shrug if this happened to Hillary or any left leaning speaker, stuff happens.

So, what you are saying is it is ok to deny free speech in certain places and against certain types of speakers. It is ok to force speaker to choose venues that welcome their speech? And it is also ok for institutions to avoid speech it doesn't like. For example, a college can shut down speech it does not want its students to hear.

Do you really believe this? Do you really believe this is in keeping with American values? Is this consistent with our First Amendment? If you do, very, very sad.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

So, what you are saying is it is ok to deny free speech in certain places and against certain types of speakers. It is ok to force speaker to choose venues that welcome their speech? And it is also ok for institutions to avoid speech it doesn't like. For example, a college can shut down speech it does not want its students to hear.

Do you really believe this? Do you really believe this is in keeping with American values? Is this consistent with our First Amendment? If you do, very, very sad.

What about the right of the College or University to not have a particular speaker appear on their campus? If an institution felt that it was not in the best interest to have someone appear on their campus, maybe over concerns for security, do they have that right or would you deny them the control over their campus over and above their concerns?

 

[WVPATX]

What about the right of the College or University to not have a particular speaker appear on their campus? If an institution felt that it was not in the best interest to have someone appear on their campus, maybe over concerns for security, do they have that right or would you deny them the control over their campus over and above their concerns?

Then you are giving what the Supreme Court describes as a "heckler's veto." A university cannot let student anarchists control their rules and regulations. They cannot let anarchists control who can speak and who can't speak. A university must stand for and uphold the principles of our country and our Constitution. When they shun those principles, the government is well within their right to stop funding that institution.

 

[moe]

So, what you are saying is it is ok to deny free speech in certain places and against certain types of speakers. It is ok to force speaker to choose venues that welcome their speech? And it is also ok for institutions to avoid speech it doesn't like. For example, a college can shut down speech it does not want its students to hear.

Do you really believe this? Do you really believe this is in keeping with American values? Is this consistent with our First Amendment? If you do, very, very sad.

You don't understand. No one denied Milo his rights to free speech, the event got cancelled due to unrest near the speaking venue. It was a matter of public safety that the event got cancelled.

 

[Mntneer]

What about the right of the College or University to not have a particular speaker appear on their campus? If an institution felt that it was not in the best interest to have someone appear on their campus, maybe over concerns for security, do they have that right or would you deny them the control over their campus over and above their concerns?

So they should just cave to the violent leftists. Let the babies have their way?

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

Then you are giving what the Supreme Court describes as a "heckler's veto." A university cannot let student anarchists control their rules and regulations. They cannot let anarchists control who can speak and who can't speak. A university must stand for and uphold the principles of our country and our Constitution. When they shun those principles, the government is well within their right to stop funding that institution.

Ooops, too late... those commies at DePaul...

http://depauliaonline.com/2016/07/07/university-denies-second-yiannopoulus-visit/

 

[WVPATX]

You don't understand. No one denied Milo his rights to free speech, the event got cancelled due to unrest near the speaking venue. It was a matter of public safety that the event got cancelled.

Give me a break. He was denied because of violent protests. The university provided no security, they forced the sponsoring group to pay for it. No one was punished. No students expelled. Property damage. Violence. Injuries. Speaker evacuated due to safety concerns.

The school knew well in advance this was going to happen. They could have done much more to prevent the violence and allow the speech to happen. You can't permit hecklers, violent extremists, anarchists to stop something Americans consider so sacred, free speech.

I hope Trump hurts them financially sending a big message to all other left wing campuses that you do this at your own peril.

 

[WVPATX]

Ooops, too late... those commies at DePaul...

http://depauliaonline.com/2016/07/07/university-denies-second-yiannopoulus-visit/

Free speech at its finest. Only let those speak with whom you agree. Talk about liberal values.

 

[rog1187]

So they should just cave to the violent leftists. Let the babies have their way?

wonder what the liberals in Hollywood do if people started riots in front of movie theaters and impacted the attendance and thus their bottom line...I'm guessing they wouldn't be too happy like some seem to be about these recent events.

 

[WVPATX]

wonder what the liberals in Hollywood do if people started riots in front of movie theaters and impacted the attendance and thus their bottom line...I'm guessing they wouldn't be too happy like some seem to be about these recent events.

Better yet, what if Lib singers, lib actors on Broadway, lib politicians were forced to cancel due to violence and safety concerns. I bet the libs on the board would be singing a far different tune.

 

[moe]

Give me a break. He was denied because of violent protests. The university provided no security, they forced the sponsoring group to pay for it. No one was punished. No students expelled. Property damage. Violence. Injuries. Speaker evacuated due to safety concerns.

The school knew well in advance this was going to happen. They could have done much more to prevent the violence and allow the speech to happen. You can't permit hecklers, violent extremists, anarchists to stop something Americans consider so sacred, free speech.

I hope Trump hurts them financially sending a big message to all other left wing campuses that you do this at your own peril.

lol Maybe Trump will throw a mean tweet at them. Like I said, this is all good attention for Milo, probably helping him sell more books and the free press he's getting is just priceless. He's probably surprised when he actually gets to speak somewhere. I'm sure that Milo appreciates your concern.

 

[moe]

wonder what the liberals in Hollywood do if people started riots in front of movie theaters and impacted the attendance and thus their bottom line...I'm guessing they wouldn't be too happy like some seem to be about these recent events.

If a movie were that controversial they would love it as people would be streaming to the theaters to find out what all the commotion was about. Mel Gibson made a lot of money in that manner.