Was it a red flag when Mullen got the Carl Torbush here? I mean seasoned as 17 and sucked as 17Your second paragraph is spot on.
The fact Lebby didn’t get a seasoned DC to be Our DC: As far as I’m concerned, that’s a…
If Lebby goes 5-7, which naysayers will admit
- Thread starter paindonthurt
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17 off bunt. Don’t act like a fool and I won’t call you one.
Use facts or stfu.
I didn’t say 5 wins was good. I said 5 wins would be about like feeling good about Mullens 5-7.
sorry you can’t comprehend
Nope.
Mullens did the smart thing and got a seasoned DC while he was a coordinator moving on up to the head coach role.
However, Torbush sucked so Mullens got Manny.
Hertzler’s Defense wasn’t good last year and and he’s back?
Hertzler not only is an odd hire; he’s also an odd retained hire after ‘24…
Mullen was in a different era that involved program building and player development. It was reasonable to expect baby steps then. 5-7 just says you suck at buying players and putting them in position to win in 2025.
Carl torbush sucked with 9 NINE NFL players.
Hutzler sucked with 0 sec starters at any other school.
can you tell the difference?
hutzler might suck. But last year doesn’t tell us **** whether you think so or not.
11 nfl players.
if we had top 10 money id agree. We dont. We still have to evaluate and build. Sorry you can’t see that.
I think I get what you’re trying to say here but, …. Mullen with presence and charisma ??
He was about as standoff ish and awkward and goofy as any coach we’ve ever had.
Yeah PDH is an ******* poster but what he is saying is pretty accurate. Zero talent last year. Somewhat better this year. State cant just go buy a top caliber SEC team. It doesn't work like that. Both of these coaches are gonna have to grow into their respective jobs. Thats why they went and got those 2 experienced coaches to consult or whatever they call it. 5 would be a good job this year. How can you expect much more. Our first four plus Missouri if you need specifics eta maybe Arkansas if we can contain Green and maybe OM. We might have a decent DL this year. If you paid attention you eould know we had a back up from Purdue and a 3 star true freshman anchoring that thing last year. JLD couldn't win with that talent
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4-8 has been my prediction all along. And I'm ok with it, as long as we're relatively competitive in our losses.
Jmo but my biggest concern is the DL. If those transfers actually pan out and Dink and Trevion can stay healthy this team could be surprisingly good. Lot of big ifs there. I think OL will be pretty good. We need a corner to step up.
Theoretically a coach should be able to win by year 2 if he is going to be a winning coach. As everyone has said, the portal changes everything. Here are some things to consider:
1) Point 1, the blue bloods could lose their whole roster to the draft and have a roster just as good the next year.
2) Every year we will look at our strength of schedule and say 6 wins max due to point 1, unless our coach brings something unique to the table such as an innovative offensive scheme or a great portal haul. Sadly, I saw nothing innovative about Lebby's system year 1.
3) Due to constant roster changes from year to year, you no longer have 3 years to implement your system. You have 2 max, depending if a majority of your roster stays put. Everyone else is teaching their system to new players.
So, in my opinion, what Lebby does this year is what we can expect on average every year. The only thing that might alter this would be if his familiarity at State makes players more willing to take our offer to play here over others. However, familiarity or not, if he can't put a good product on the field, he will miss on great players.
1) Point 1, the blue bloods could lose their whole roster to the draft and have a roster just as good the next year.
2) Every year we will look at our strength of schedule and say 6 wins max due to point 1, unless our coach brings something unique to the table such as an innovative offensive scheme or a great portal haul. Sadly, I saw nothing innovative about Lebby's system year 1.
3) Due to constant roster changes from year to year, you no longer have 3 years to implement your system. You have 2 max, depending if a majority of your roster stays put. Everyone else is teaching their system to new players.
So, in my opinion, what Lebby does this year is what we can expect on average every year. The only thing that might alter this would be if his familiarity at State makes players more willing to take our offer to play here over others. However, familiarity or not, if he can't put a good product on the field, he will miss on great players.
He’s gong to have to keep improving the roster to get us back to a Mullen level or anything close to that. But to be able to improve the roster he’s going to have to overachieve some. Which is exceedingly harder to do in this era.
I don’t think we’ve got the horses to get to a bowl game this year barring some teams on our schedule clearly underachieving. But you’ve gotta figure out a way to be more competitive against some of these teams and get some energy back in the fan base.
The thing Mullen did in 2009 prior to beating Ole Miss was he gave us our most competitive showing against LSU in almost a decade and played a Tebow/Meyer Florida team tough, believe that game was tied in the 3rd quarter. These were games we were losing by 30+ under Croom. He also had a sneaky good road win over a Kentucky team that went to a bowl game that first year. And then obviously the Egg Bowl was the big lasting impression.
We live in a world where Vanderbiilt beat Alabama last year. I’m not saying you’ve got to pull off that level of upset this year but do enough to give your fans reason for belief.
I don’t think we’ve got the horses to get to a bowl game this year barring some teams on our schedule clearly underachieving. But you’ve gotta figure out a way to be more competitive against some of these teams and get some energy back in the fan base.
The thing Mullen did in 2009 prior to beating Ole Miss was he gave us our most competitive showing against LSU in almost a decade and played a Tebow/Meyer Florida team tough, believe that game was tied in the 3rd quarter. These were games we were losing by 30+ under Croom. He also had a sneaky good road win over a Kentucky team that went to a bowl game that first year. And then obviously the Egg Bowl was the big lasting impression.
We live in a world where Vanderbiilt beat Alabama last year. I’m not saying you’ve got to pull off that level of upset this year but do enough to give your fans reason for belief.
Maybe you guys close to the program know better.... I believe Lebby knew he needed a bonafide DC. However Hutzler was the best candidate to even seriously consider the job.
These experienced DCs knew State had just fired Arnett and hired an inexperienced HC. They knew they would have to rebuild the roster. It wasn't an ideal situation to move into.
And I firmly believe we didn't fire Hutzler last year because of continuity, money and concern we would have to fire people after this year.
These experienced DCs knew State had just fired Arnett and hired an inexperienced HC. They knew they would have to rebuild the roster. It wasn't an ideal situation to move into.
And I firmly believe we didn't fire Hutzler last year because of continuity, money and concern we would have to fire people after this year.
Yeah he wasn't personable at alumni events but he knew what to say to the masses when he had a mic.
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I’d like to throw out a number here for everyone..
0, as in zero. Zero draft picks. that is the number of players that leach and ZA signed that were drafted from both of their respective tenure ls here. Another 0, as in zero number of players that Lebby supposedly “ran off” are starting at different schools that includes G5 schools.
0, as in zero. Zero draft picks. that is the number of players that leach and ZA signed that were drafted from both of their respective tenure ls here. Another 0, as in zero number of players that Lebby supposedly “ran off” are starting at different schools that includes G5 schools.
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I’d prefer people didn’t say stupid $h1t and I didn’t have to call them on it but….
Mine too. I think we’ll manage to cobble together an OL that’s more or less serviceable. The thought of our interior DL going up against 6 teams that could win 10+ games in P4 scares me.
Hardly anybody is doing development anymore. Everybody is looking for a proven quick fix. Which is why it’s so important for us to keep guys in and develop like we used to. We are looking for age, and guys that have their breakout years as upperclassmen. They are much easier to keep.
A lot of guys we had were young and not ready to start, or were just coming into it. And they get lost in the mix. Mullen was a good coach so he took those same players and continued to develop them. Heavy Lebby did the opposite - ran them off and brought in defective quick fixes.
There are a lot of players out there that need programs like us. Unfortunately more and more coaches are starting to get lazy and just do portal when a guy hasn’t started in his first two years.
Mark my words - we will not ever have success but trying to buy players like the blue bloods. EVER.
I would think the outcome of lebbys recruiting is incomplete as of yet. The 23/24 class is kinda of a wash due to the hiring and portla widow. This past class 24/25 is all lebbys class.
As for as those that left, they aren’t developing at the new location either. It’s ok to admit those were misses and we weren’t alone both OM and USM haven’t had much success with those in state signees in recent years.
"True but since this was the case, why wasn't our new DC full time when he was hired? Why did he stay with Alabama to coach. This falls on Lebby for not having him in Starkville full time and recruiting the moment he was hired."
Obviously you can't. I literally mentioned he waited to come to campus after Alabama was finished and he was a position coach. Not a coordinator (which then I could have understood).
Well that’s kind of my point, who knows if they were misses, but hard for me to believe John Lewis and the like are misses. Perhaps, like I said before, they just need a certain type coach to get it out of them, which is like most raw Mississippi players.
Again, if we try and think like Alabama, where we are just gonna cut guys and go replace them with equal talent, we are gonna come up broke, like we did last year.
I agree that we won't have their type of success but we should have much more than we're having right now.
We're finally finding money to pay people to come here. It's like baseball though. You can have the money but if you have a lame duck coach, you'll have to pay more to get them here. I'm not saying that's Lebby but he better show some improvement or we'll have to hire someone else and start over because that hill just gets harder and harder to climb.
Odds he wins:
Five or more: Zero
Four: 20%
Three: 50%
Two: 30%
One or less: Zero
It's science.
Five or more: Zero
Four: 20%
Three: 50%
Two: 30%
One or less: Zero
It's science.
It doesn't make the argument you want it to make because it doesn't absolve Lebby. It in fact makes him complicit.
We certainly have to spend a baseline - which now is 20.5M or whatever our percentage is of that. My opinion is that 80% of that should be roster retention - and if we’re developing correctly, that should be achievable. Obviously we still save the 20% for the portal because it’s reality.
Im curious to see what Clemson shows this year because they went the retention route as a blue blood.
This. If our DL isn’t great but lots better than last years which was atrocious for juco we will be a lot better on defense.
If you think this fanbase gets restless over losing seasons, just wait until some of these donors don't see results for these investments. It's gonna get ugly.
Maybe I can’t read bc in that bolded paragraph it says nothing about him being a position coach
Defense will be waaaay better talent wise if we don't get people hurt again. Let's face it, it can't be as bad as last year if you put corpses out there. The offense will be good but it might take a couple games to get everybody on the same page, same as most teams these days.
I expect 5+ wins but this schedule is a biatch!
I expect 5+ wins but this schedule is a biatch!
Touché. Your brilliance among idiots shines brightly! FACTS! <-see that part right there made it unarguably true
There is absolutely no way Hutzler was the best we could get. Lebby made a lazy hire & a crony hire. Just like Selmon did.
In a way, I’m not sure we’ll ever know if he’s a good or bad head coach just from his MSU tenure. I’d say he probably isn’t, just because most aren’t. It certainly seems like he sucks right now. But he’s also further behind the 8-ball than any other hire we have ever had.
I honestly don’t see the talent ever being good enough here - within the time frame he needs it to be - in order for him to stay employed for longer than 2-3 years. We’re just not doing enough to get the players we need, and in today’s climate that’s not necessarily on the coaching staff. He knows offense and knows talent on that side of the ball….yet we aren’t really getting very much of it. And defense is just a disaster.
No something actually being a fact makes it unarguably true.
FACT: in 2009 Mullen had 11 nfl players
FACT: in 2024 Hutzler and Lebby had zero nfl players
FACT: Lebby hasn’t lost anyone leach recruited that would be an nfl player on defense.
those facts have not been disputed. I’d love to hear an intelligent factual reply disputing them but haven’t yet.
Thanks for playing!