If we lose.

bdgan

All-Conference
Oct 12, 2021
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Annually going 10-2 is disappointing until you find the successor coach brings you 9-3 and 8-4.
Joe had a lot of 3-4 loss teams (in addition to 5 undefeated seasons) but it was a different era. Back then Illinois had players like Kevin Hardy & Simeon Rice. Iowa had players like Chuck Long. Wisconsin had players like Ron Dayne and Erasmus James. West Virginia had Major Harris & Jeff Hostetler. Boston College had Doug Flutie. In today's game if a team is lucky enough to sign an under the radar kid who excels as an underclassman he'll get gobbled up in the portal by the big money teams.

I don't know how the schedules are prepared but it looks like BiG teams only play between 1 and 3 big money teams per year. I expect a lot of 10-2 or better seasons for the big money teams because the gap between the haves and have nots has never been greater.
 

KingLando

All-Conference
Nov 29, 2021
2,204
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Annually going 10-2 is disappointing until you find the successor coach brings you 9-3 and 8-4.
Sounds like Dabo right now. The reality is with the team he has this year anything short of a deep playoff run is an epic failure.

Yes there's risk but you could also go from Richt to Smart. The objective is to win titles.

Not saying fire him if we lose to Oregon but if we fail to make the playoff he should be gone.
 
Sep 10, 2013
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If BGJ goes 2-1 v O OSU and I and gets to the final 4 (as I predicted here in August) I will be fine with big game. Really it all rests in 15s hands now
 
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WVilleLion23

All-Conference
Oct 27, 2022
994
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Sounds like Dabo right now. The reality is with the team he has this year anything short of a deep playoff run is an epic failure.

Yes there's risk but you could also go from Richt to Smart. The objective is to win titles.

Not saying fire him if we lose to Oregon but if we fail to make the playoff he should be gone.
Or you can go from a Solich (can do better) to a Pelini (can do better) to a Riley (can do better) to a Frost (can do better) to Rhule (not a great first two seasons and too early to tell about this season and beyond).

Yeah, maybe PSU can get someone else that would get us back to a NC, but I would say odds are similar record as Franklin or worse.

🤷‍♂️
 
Sep 10, 2013
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No, I do not believe you. I would bet a lot that you are a Pitt or Rutgers troll fan.
I lived with Harry but he’s mad at me right now. Ask me some SC bar trivia
EXAMPLE Q where do you go to Hawaii? A Gaff. Q what nite was dollar li ice tea nite at the saloon? A m and wed
 

LionJim

Heisman
Oct 12, 2021
12,836
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I lived with Harry but he’s mad at me right now. Ask me some SC bar trivia
EXAMPLE Q where do you go to Hawaii? A Gaff. Q what nite was dollar li ice tea nite at the saloon? A m and wed
Maybe Harry’s mad at you for saying that you lived with him? It’s “Harry and I were roommates,” ffs.
 
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Midnighter

Heisman
Jan 22, 2021
11,024
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Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way but it sure looks to me like PSU has gone in the last 15 years from a mess of a program on the periphery of the top 25 to a solid top 10 program, maybe top 5, likely regular playoff team, one of the elite factories for NFL talent, maybe on the verge of being one of the superprograms like Ohio State and Michigan and Oregon that contend for championships and rule college football. Correct me if I'm wrong about this but I think the guy who's run the PSU football program during this long rise has been a guy named James Franklin. And he's done it without cheating. And people here are saying they want to fire him if the team loses a football game on Saturday. Hmmm.
I think people here ought to be worried about losing Franklin if PSU doesn't surpass last year's success but it will be because some other place wants to hire him for a truckload of money to do what he's done at PSU. And if he were to leave, the odds are frankly not great that his successor would be as successful. If you want to see PSU continue to rise (and rising is harder the higher you get), I think your best odds would be to stay with the guy who has rebuilt the program to where it is. I've been a college football fan for nearly 60 years and that would be my long-term perspective.

'Mess of a program on the periphery?' - can't agree with that. Joe, even in his worst decade coaching (2000 - 2010), won two B1G championships, four good/very good bowls, finished in the AP top ten three times, and did it while putting almost zero effort or energy into recruiting - so, doing fairly well with much less. He was also 3-8 against OSU and 4-5 against Michigan. I think Franklin has got us to consistently good/very good (wins and top ten finishes are proof) and he's great for the program but he's yet to achieve anything above what I think fans were yearning for when Paterno left, which was the awakening of a 'sleeping giant' that would win a few against our top opponents and have us in the hunt regularly. Landscape has changed a lot and we're primed to do well in the playoff era, but that next step hasn't happened and as noted, it's been 12 years for Franklin. He's not going anywhere I think but I also don't think PSU falls of a cliff without him.


Skylar Astin Super Fine GIF by The Roku Channel
 
Sep 10, 2013
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'Mess of a program on the periphery?' - can't agree with that. Joe, even in his worst decade coaching (2000 - 2010), won two B1G championships, four good/very good bowls, finished in the AP top ten three times, and did it while putting almost zero effort or energy into recruiting - so, doing fairly well with much less. He was also 3-8 against OSU and 4-5 against Michigan. I think Franklin has got us to consistently good/very good (wins and top ten finishes are proof) and he's great for the program but he's yet to achieve anything above what I think fans were yearning for when Paterno left, which was the awakening of a 'sleeping giant' that would win a few against our top opponents and have us in the hunt regularly. Landscape has changed a lot and we're primed to do well in the playoff era, but that next step hasn't happened and as noted, it's been 12 years for Franklin. He's not going anywhere I think but I also don't think PSU falls of a cliff without him.


Skylar Astin Super Fine GIF by The Roku Channel
How come when MN says what I say it’s embraced but when the rick says it he’s vilified? It’s his girl polls isn’t it. smh
 

94LionsFan

Sophomore
Sep 27, 2023
90
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'Mess of a program on the periphery?' - can't agree with that. Joe, even in his worst decade coaching (2000 - 2010), won two B1G championships, four good/very good bowls, finished in the AP top ten three times, and did it while putting almost zero effort or energy into recruiting - so, doing fairly well with much less. He was also 3-8 against OSU and 4-5 against Michigan. I think Franklin has got us to consistently good/very good (wins and top ten finishes are proof) and he's great for the program but he's yet to achieve anything above what I think fans were yearning for when Paterno left, which was the awakening of a 'sleeping giant' that would win a few against our top opponents and have us in the hunt regularly. Landscape has changed a lot and we're primed to do well in the playoff era, but that next step hasn't happened and as noted, it's been 12 years for Franklin. He's not going anywhere I think but I also don't think PSU falls of a cliff without him.


Skylar Astin Super Fine GIF by The Roku Channel
I suspect he was referring to the post-sanctions state…
 
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Ram20

Senior
Jul 29, 2013
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Or you can go from a Solich (can do better) to a Pelini (can do better) to a Riley (can do better) to a Frost (can do better) to Rhule (not a great first two seasons and too early to tell about this season and beyond).

Yeah, maybe PSU can get someone else that would get us back to a NC, but I would say odds are similar record as Franklin or worse.

🤷‍♂️

Good post and for the most part, I've taken this position. Sort of "the devil you know." If Franklin loses this game and Ohio State, I think it is a reasonable position to take the other side. Look, for a long time he couldn't win as an underdog because the program was not "all in, 365 days a year." He couldn't win the big one because the administration wouldn't pony up for top level coordinators and coaches. On record, I don't think he was wrong....I do remember losing coaches, good coaches, to lateral moves. That said, nobody can argue the investments being made to the program at this point. Knowles is the highest paid coordinator in the country, school is redoing beaver stadium, deals being cut all over with jersey brands, insurance companies, and so on. They paid up and brought back high level/experienced talent and in order to do so, flashed big coin. Considering the exodus of players leaving next year, and the relatively paltry 2026 recruiting status, we are probably 2-4 years away from being real NC threats again...Franklin will be in like year 20 at that point. I think its fair to say "if not now......when?" and if he loses to OSU and OU this year, he'll have deserved that no?

So back to your original point....Do you eliminate a guy that wins a lot of games knowing you risk winning less games if only, you MIGHT strike lightening in the bottle and marry a "lesser known" coach to the program and he can reach a ceiling never realized under Franklin? I'll even concede the probability stipulates he won't and worse, will underperform Franklin. Is that a risk the fans and administration are willing to take? If Franklin goes 0-2 this year, god forbid he loses to Indiana too(real chance).....I think I'd say Yes, time to try something knew. Hat tip to Franklin, has done a wonderful job, but he's basically Mike Tomlin(w/o a ring) at that point.....long term coach, good enough to keep the stands full, the cash flowing, deserves respect, but just couldn't get there and the potential downsides, and they are vast(think Fickell at Wisconsin), are worth it to me. Not that Franklin gets fired, but I do think Kraft and Franklin could be reasonable in at least beginning to formulate a next plan for both him and the program. Just my $.02.
 
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PSUSignore

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
1,154
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113
As far as having a better record against big opponents... what is the answer there, if you replace Franklin? What is the "magic" solution where we're suddenly recruiting better and improving to 5-5 against Ohio State over a 10-year stretch, and able to regularly beat Michigan?
Recruiting has improved under Franklin's tenure. This year's team roster has the highest blue chip ratio in PSU's history since it was tracked, and it's been improving annually under Franklin.
 
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PSUSignore

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
1,154
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What we can all agree on is big game has shown his ceiling. What’s the crime wanting to raise the ceiling. Anyone with money on here knows risk reward. Time to stop being so comfy and take a risk. Or not lol. Signed happy all the time in DE
Considering the most recent season concluded with the highest ever finish for PSU under Franklin, you are objectively wrong. You would require another season to be completed before you could even begin to make this argument. Of course, this makes perfect sense to everyone except those blinded by their hate, such as yourself.
 
Sep 10, 2013
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Considering the most recent season concluded with the highest ever finish for PSU under Franklin, you are objectively wrong. You would require another season to be completed before you could even begin to make this argument. Of course, this makes perfect sense to everyone except those blinded by their hate, such as yourself.
No hate, just talkin some football. Are SMU and Broncos Big Boys? A: nope
 
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PSUSignore

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
1,154
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Joe had a lot of 3-4 loss teams (in addition to 5 undefeated seasons) but it was a different era. Back then Illinois had players like Kevin Hardy & Simeon Rice. Iowa had players like Chuck Long. Wisconsin had players like Ron Dayne and Erasmus James. West Virginia had Major Harris & Jeff Hostetler. Boston College had Doug Flutie. In today's game if a team is lucky enough to sign an under the radar kid who excels as an underclassman he'll get gobbled up in the portal by the big money teams.

I don't know how the schedules are prepared but it looks like BiG teams only play between 1 and 3 big money teams per year. I expect a lot of 10-2 or better seasons for the big money teams because the gap between the haves and have nots has never been greater.
Today, teams like Ohio St have an entire starting roster of players of that caliber every single year. The game has changed significantly for the elite. Those teams are at a level that is so much higher now that it makes it so that catching lightning in a bottle with 1-2 special recruits isn't necessarily going to get you to a championship level anymore.
 

PSUSignore

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
1,154
1,852
113
Sounds like Dabo right now. The reality is with the team he has this year anything short of a deep playoff run is an epic failure.

Yes there's risk but you could also go from Richt to Smart. The objective is to win titles.

Not saying fire him if we lose to Oregon but if we fail to make the playoff he should be gone.
There's maybe a 5% chance of that happening. PSU should not be putting the fate of a their program on something with odds akin to the spin of a roulette wheel when they are already in a position better than 90-95% of programs in the sport.
 

PSUSignore

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
1,154
1,852
113
100% lose if 15 does 2 of 3: 55% completion 25% 3rd down 2 interceptions or sack fumbles
he schits the bed we lose
3rd down conversions are not 100% on Allar and you know that. Neither is anything else on your list as other players besides Allar are involved in every single play, but by all means keep hating.
 
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PSUSignore

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
1,154
1,852
113
'Mess of a program on the periphery?' - can't agree with that. Joe, even in his worst decade coaching (2000 - 2010), won two B1G championships, four good/very good bowls, finished in the AP top ten three times, and did it while putting almost zero effort or energy into recruiting - so, doing fairly well with much less. He was also 3-8 against OSU and 4-5 against Michigan. I think Franklin has got us to consistently good/very good (wins and top ten finishes are proof) and he's great for the program but he's yet to achieve anything above what I think fans were yearning for when Paterno left, which was the awakening of a 'sleeping giant' that would win a few against our top opponents and have us in the hunt regularly. Landscape has changed a lot and we're primed to do well in the playoff era, but that next step hasn't happened and as noted, it's been 12 years for Franklin. He's not going anywhere I think but I also don't think PSU falls of a cliff without him.


Skylar Astin Super Fine GIF by The Roku Channel
Funny how you anti Franklin people immediately assume OP was talking about Paterno at all. The program was still a mess when Franklin was hired because of Sandusky fallout and NCAA sanction and was coming off of 2 very mediocre seasons under O'Brien. This had nothing to do with Paterno's coaching.