Who do we hire? What new coach has panned out for other SEC teams? Would we go the young guy from a small school approch ala Pelphrey/ Fox/ Grant/ Horn ? Or do we go after a "proven" guy from a big school (Trent Johnson)? It doesn't look like either strategy has worked. I remember being a little jealous after each of these guys was hired but would any of them made us any better? Is the SEC just that bad?
If we were to get a new BBall Coach.....
- Thread starter Liverdawg
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Who do we hire? What new coach has panned out for other SEC teams? Would we go the young guy from a small school approch ala Pelphrey/ Fox/ Grant/ Horn ? Or do we go after a "proven" guy from a big school (Trent Johnson)? It doesn't look like either strategy has worked. I remember being a little jealous after each of these guys was hired but would any of them made us any better? Is the SEC just that bad?
Duggar Baucom of VMI<div>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duggar_Baucom</div><div>
</div><div>You can't really recruit to VMI, so he just has to take what he gets. He plays an extreme up-tempo style and has led the nation in scoring every year despite not having any recruits. It would be quite a turnaround from what we have.</div>
</div><div>You can't really recruit to VMI, so he just has to take what he gets. He plays an extreme up-tempo style and has led the nation in scoring every year despite not having any recruits. It would be quite a turnaround from what we have.</div>
We only get like 20 hours a week of practice, therefore one would think we would use it on more important things like how to attack a zone defense, thus FT practice would be left up to the player to practice on his own. I'm not sure any of what have just typed, though, is currently going on.
is like a Quantum Physics professor being asked to teach Introduction into Basic Elementary Math 1.01
each student athelet aslo can practice on his/her own time in a gym like say the SANDERSON center....we may not have enough time during team practice to justify giving alot of time to ft's, but it should be an unspoken rule that in down time your *** better be in the sanderson shooting nothing but free throws!
I do NOT want us to go and hire whatever flavor of the month coachgets lucky in March and wins a couple of games in the NCAA tournament. It does not have to be a guy from a big school but I don't want a guy from a tiny college in the MidWest that has no recruiting connections in the South and not enough name recognition to turn the heads of recruits. I don't give a crap how well he runs the picket fence if he can't bring in players.
My biggest fear is that whatever we gain in bench coaching from firing Stansbury will be offset by what we will lose in recruiting.
My biggest fear is that whatever we gain in bench coaching from firing Stansbury will be offset by what we will lose in recruiting.
Not sure how other teams manage to shoot em well and/or make the key ones, but other teams are successful. We should copy what they do.RobbieRandolph said:
mstateglfr said:
2009-2010 Free Throw % rankings
196. Mississippi State
201. Michigan State - Tom Izzo
207. Kentucky - John Calipari
234. Syracuse - Jim Boeheim
241. Tennessee - Bruce Pearl
279. North Carolina - Roy Williams
This bunch of dumbass coaches need to "teach" free throws more.
Donovan worked out
Pearl worked out
Stallings worked out
Calipari worked out
Hell, Kennedy is 83-52 at Mississippi. He is averaging 20 wins a season and has 2 SEC West titles. He just has to take the next step
Jury still out:
Mark Fox- made Georgia better in 2010 and a team to watch in 2011
Anthony Grant- had a big job to do in T-Town. Team looks better coached, but still has some discipline and talent problems to solve.
Darrin Horn- shared an East title his 1st season but slipped last year- off to a good start in 2011- will see what he does.
John Pelphrey- yeah I said it- John Pelphrey. Has a Tourney appearance and then had to start over. has to eliminate discipline problems and be more of a factor this season. But has pulled a top 5 in the nation recruiting class and off to a solid start this season. Time for him to produce.
Failed hires-
Dennis Felton
Jeff Lebo
Dave Odom
Billy Gillespie
Our situation is different than some of these other programs. Alot of these coaches are taking over programs that are down and having to rebuild. You are not going to take a down SEC program and have them in the Sweet 16 every year in a year or two. If you look at the SEC programs that were in decent shape when a change was made, they have had decent success with going another direction.
Pearl worked out
Stallings worked out
Calipari worked out
Hell, Kennedy is 83-52 at Mississippi. He is averaging 20 wins a season and has 2 SEC West titles. He just has to take the next step
Jury still out:
Mark Fox- made Georgia better in 2010 and a team to watch in 2011
Anthony Grant- had a big job to do in T-Town. Team looks better coached, but still has some discipline and talent problems to solve.
Darrin Horn- shared an East title his 1st season but slipped last year- off to a good start in 2011- will see what he does.
John Pelphrey- yeah I said it- John Pelphrey. Has a Tourney appearance and then had to start over. has to eliminate discipline problems and be more of a factor this season. But has pulled a top 5 in the nation recruiting class and off to a solid start this season. Time for him to produce.
Failed hires-
Dennis Felton
Jeff Lebo
Dave Odom
Billy Gillespie
Our situation is different than some of these other programs. Alot of these coaches are taking over programs that are down and having to rebuild. You are not going to take a down SEC program and have them in the Sweet 16 every year in a year or two. If you look at the SEC programs that were in decent shape when a change was made, they have had decent success with going another direction.
At least he knows how to make halftime and in-game adjustments. When is the last time Stans made any adjustments during a game? Why in the hell do we not play zone when since we have no post defense?
<div><div style="border: medium none ; overflow: hidden; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent; text-align: left; text-decoration: none;">One big thing MSU must address is playing against a zone defense. FAU coach Mike Jarvis, who said he prefers playing man-to-man, switched to zone in the second half and put a clamp on Ravern Johnson, holding the SEC's leading scorer to just four points the final 20 minutes.<span>
Read more: NEMS360.com - News, Business, Classifieds, and Events in Northeast Mississippi </span></div></div>
<div><div style="border: medium none ; overflow: hidden; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent; text-align: left; text-decoration: none;">One big thing MSU must address is playing against a zone defense. FAU coach Mike Jarvis, who said he prefers playing man-to-man, switched to zone in the second half and put a clamp on Ravern Johnson, holding the SEC's leading scorer to just four points the final 20 minutes.<span>
Read more: NEMS360.com - News, Business, Classifieds, and Events in Northeast Mississippi </span></div></div>
Liverdawg said:
Donovan- 2 national titles
Pearl- 2 Sweet 16's and an Elite 8 in 5 seasons
Stallings- 2 Sweet 16's
Calipari- enough said
How are they not making deep runs? You can't compare us to SC, Mississippi, Georgia, Auburn- we have had the better program the last 20 years...****, we have had a better program than UPig the last 15 years overall.
I didnt say I'd rather have Kennedy. But he has made the Mississippi program better since he got there. So, you can't say he has been a failed hire. Has he gotten them where they want to go? No. And it's up to them how much longer they want to stick with him. But Stansbury hasnt gotten us where many of us want to go either.
Playing some nationally relevant basketball teams in the OOC and then a Sweet 16 or better every 5 years is not too much to ask for in our program.
We have more to lose than to gain than most programsby firing Stansbury until he turns in a Croom/Cohen type disaster of a season. The slightest drop off in recruiting for us will result in us going back to the days of 4-12 SEC records. Getting rid of Rick right now will most assuredly hurt recruiting. Do you risk destroying a decent program for the chance at a great program? Some will say yes. Others will say no. There is no right answer.
Ole Miss had nothing to lose by hiring Kennedy. South Carolina had nothing to lose by hiring Horn. Georgia had nothing to lose by hiring Fox. We are in a totally different boat. It is frustrating that we have not done better but I sure as **** don't want to risk returning to the pre-Richard Williams days.
Ole Miss had nothing to lose by hiring Kennedy. South Carolina had nothing to lose by hiring Horn. Georgia had nothing to lose by hiring Fox. We are in a totally different boat. It is frustrating that we have not done better but I sure as **** don't want to risk returning to the pre-Richard Williams days.
Of course if you miss them earlier in the game, then you arent in the position later in the game for those FTs to be key.
Way to march out a handful of great coaches whose teams shoot FTs worse than MSU. You win, there is no possible way to refute that.
Ill make an attempt though- Those great coaches and teams were great IN SPITE of their FT shooting. And even if we were average in terms of %, it is clear that our program each year needs to be GREAT at something. Maybe better FT shooting would get them over the hump since its clear that other issues are just never going to be resolved.
I am not blaming Stans entirelyfor the poor shooting. But he is the guy that brought these guys into the program.
****, Bailey is A TON better now than he was a couple years ago. A TON. He is actually not a terrible FT shooter now. Remember him as a freshman?...40% if that from the line? Now he has consistent form and an actual release on the shot. So clearly the players can improve.
On a related note, i think Ravern may have the least caring FT routine of all time. He doesnt even line the ball up with the seams. He just gets it and tosses it up, regardless of how the ball is positioned in his hand. Insane.
Way to march out a handful of great coaches whose teams shoot FTs worse than MSU. You win, there is no possible way to refute that.
Ill make an attempt though- Those great coaches and teams were great IN SPITE of their FT shooting. And even if we were average in terms of %, it is clear that our program each year needs to be GREAT at something. Maybe better FT shooting would get them over the hump since its clear that other issues are just never going to be resolved.
I am not blaming Stans entirelyfor the poor shooting. But he is the guy that brought these guys into the program.
****, Bailey is A TON better now than he was a couple years ago. A TON. He is actually not a terrible FT shooter now. Remember him as a freshman?...40% if that from the line? Now he has consistent form and an actual release on the shot. So clearly the players can improve.
On a related note, i think Ravern may have the least caring FT routine of all time. He doesnt even line the ball up with the seams. He just gets it and tosses it up, regardless of how the ball is positioned in his hand. Insane.
"<font size="2" face="Arial"><font size="2" face="Arial">They made some good free throws as well. I don’t know what the percentage was but it had to be a high percentage of free throws.”
I will give you a hint, he was talking about us down the stretch in overtime.</font></font>
I will give you a hint, he was talking about us down the stretch in overtime.</font></font>
Donovan has been at UF since 96. He is not a recent hire and Florida fans are already tired of him after two down years and a loss to UCF. Stallings has been at Vandy since 99. Pearl is the best example of a recent hire working out and he some other issues right now. I just think that its a big risk to get rid of Stansbury. There aren't any newly-hired coaches that have had more success and most are dealing with better resources. I'm not saying we should stick with stansbury til the bitter end, but I think we need to be bad before it is worth the risk.
I am just being realistic. You can't fire a guy who continually goes 23-11 or so every year. I am not saying that is some kind of impressive feat but it is not horrible either. The risk of ruining where we are now is not worth it to me but that is just my opinion. It was a no brainer to fire Croom and Polk because of their last record at MSU.
Now I will say this: When Stansbury turns in that first 16-14 season, his *** needs to be gone. However, unless you can predict the future we can't do it until he does. Hell I would have loved to have pre-emptively fired Polk and Croom had I known they were going to suck so bad their last season. Hind sight is always 20/20.</p>
Now I will say this: When Stansbury turns in that first 16-14 season, his *** needs to be gone. However, unless you can predict the future we can't do it until he does. Hell I would have loved to have pre-emptively fired Polk and Croom had I known they were going to suck so bad their last season. Hind sight is always 20/20.</p>
I'm with Hamnu...I think it's too much to risk. Until he has a terrible terrible year, we have to keep him. Let's see what he does with this next class. I may say next if in Smith, Hood, and Gardner's second year we aren't in the Sweet16.Hanmudog said:
SEC hires to programs is decent shape have turned out pretty well for the most part
SEC hires to programs that have been struggling are works in progress with some failures...
Bringing in a coach to State would be like a hire that Florida, Tennessee, and Vandy had to make. Hell, even LSU- Johnson won an SEC title- but LSU was unstable with lots of ups and downs the last 10 years. He is trying to get it on a stable foundation. People want to call Johnson a failure but he has as many SEC titles as Stansbury. He deserves a couple more years of evaluation before any real judgement can be made.
You cant compare us hiring a coach to Georgia, Auburn, SC, Mississippi because our program has been much better than these schools the last 15-20 years
SEC hires to programs that have been struggling are works in progress with some failures...
Bringing in a coach to State would be like a hire that Florida, Tennessee, and Vandy had to make. Hell, even LSU- Johnson won an SEC title- but LSU was unstable with lots of ups and downs the last 10 years. He is trying to get it on a stable foundation. People want to call Johnson a failure but he has as many SEC titles as Stansbury. He deserves a couple more years of evaluation before any real judgement can be made.
You cant compare us hiring a coach to Georgia, Auburn, SC, Mississippi because our program has been much better than these schools the last 15-20 years
I agree, wearent them. And i agree the firing was absurd.Hanmudog said:
But really, are wethat much worse than them over the last half decade(which is a lifetime in college basketball)? Sure doesnt seem like it. They were highly ranked with Aminu there at one point, but really underachieved and basically wenrent anything special.
05-0617-16 overall 3-13 conference 12th place
06-07 15-16 5-11 11th place
07-0817-13 7-9 8th place
08-0924-6 11-5 3rd place
09-10 19-10 9-7 5th place
10-11currently 4-3 overall in last placewith losses to STETSON, VCU, and WINTHROP.
Really, we arent them?In the last5 years they havedone nothing. They have had 1 good season overall. 1.
Wake let Dino go becauseof his LACK OFPOST SEASON SUCCESS. Meaning they recognize thataveraging 20 wins/season, which i believe he did to the number, isnt much when it gets you 8th place and5th place in conference and nothingin the post season.
Now i added this year's numbers becausethis example can also illustrate what can happen if Stans leaves, we suck even more. Who knows.
I just find it funny that you say coaches arent fired for doing what Stans has done, i point to a perfect example, and you say we arent them as if they are someprogram that is a winner every year on a national level or something.
MSU is just as good a program.
I didnt realize our recruiting was so great. In the last 5 or 6 years we get 1 top 100 player on average each signing period and a couple of players who are talented in certain areas and very deficient in other areas. Oh and we get on average a couple of spring signees that are talented in 1 area and lacking in all other areas.Hanmudog said:
Nobody elsecould possibly reel in that sort of signing class. Paul friggin Hewitt manages to bring in great talent year after year in spite of a terrible product on the courst each year. I am pretty sure many coaches could get our level of talent if they were at MSU.