I'm calling out the Stansbury critics/haters.

Maroon Eagle · Dec 19, 2008

I believe the great majority of MSU fans appreciate and acknowledge that Rick Stansbury has contributed a lot to MSU basketball, and I count myself among them. He's long been regarded by fans here on Six Pack as the best coach we've had on staff, and I believe Stansbury still is the best coach because Cohen and Mullen haven't demonstrated what they can do on the field yet for MSU.

I think right now that some of the more disenchanted people are in awe of the power of the Ninja and can't help but wonder openly who would he hire as basketball coach. And that wondering is spilling out more and more.

I think that Stansbury has done a very good job in maintaining the program that Richard Williams built. The proof is in his longevity and record.

That being said, I've always kind of thought that Richard Williams was a better planner, a better coach than Stansbury. It may not make sense, but I think part of that has to do with Williams's openly acknowledging several times when he was coach that he always considered himself a student of the game-- learning from such people as former Belhaven coach Charlie Rugg, to give an example. I don't recall reading similar articles about what Stansbury does to improve himself professionally.

Shmuley · Dec 19, 2008

doesn't give a ****, or even a liquidy squirt. It's basketball. Meh.

Bring on baseball.

GhostDawg.sixpack · Dec 19, 2008

Maroon Eagle said:
I think that Stansbury has done a very good job in maintaining the program that Richard Williams built. The proof is in his longevity and record.

That being said, I've always kind of thought that Richard Williams was a better planner, a better coach than Stansbury.

Agreed. If one needed a recruiting coach, take Stans. However, if one needed a strategist, take Williams. His ability to have a game plan, manage the game, and adapt to changing circumstances was pretty solid. Williams had a good eye for detail and strategy.

LandArchDawg · Dec 19, 2008

Let's see what experienced player(s) he runs off this year, then get back to us...

Edited due to my retarded typing.

Mr Meoff · Dec 19, 2008

ShrubDog · Dec 19, 2008

1. When to get out of a Zone

2. When to call a TimeOut.

Been saying this FoEva

HD6 · Dec 19, 2008

of active coaches with a better winning percentage than Stansbury. Pick the one you think is coming here. I'll go over my ideas after the list.

1. Roy Williams ......................North Carolina ........................................20 560 134 .807

2. Mark Few ............................Gonzaga ....................................................9 236 60 .797

3. Bruce Pearl ..........................Tennessee ................................................16 394 108 .785

4. Bo Ryan ...............................Wisconsin ................................................24 556 163 .773

5. Jamie Dixon ........................Pittsburgh ..................................................5 132 40 .767

6. Thad Matta ..........................Ohio St. .....................................................8 207 66 .758

7. John Calipari .......................Memphis .................................................16 408 135 .751

8. Mike Krzyzewski ................Duke ........................................................33 803 267 .750

9. Bob Huggins .......................West Virginia ..........................................26 616 222 .735

10. Jim Boeheim .......................Syracuse ..................................................32 771 278 .735

11. Rick Pitino ..........................Louisville ................................................22 521 191 .732

12. Rick Majerus .......................St. Louis ..................................................21 438 162 .730

13. Tubby Smith ........................Minnesota ................................................17 407 159 .719

14. Bill Self ...............................Kansas .....................................................15 349 137 .718

15. Danny Kaspar ......................Stephen F. Austin ....................................17 353 148 .705

16. Billy Donovan .....................Florida .....................................................14 320 135 .703

17. Tom Izzo .............................Michigan St. ............................................13 305 130 .701

18. Jim Christian .......................TCU...........................................................6 137 59 .699

19. Darrin Horn .........................South Carolina ..........................................5 111 48 .698

20. Jim Calhoun ........................Connecticut .............................................36 774 337 .697

21. Bruce Weber .......................Illinois .....................................................10 231 101 .696

22. Mike Montgomery ..............California ................................................26 547 244 .692

23. John Thompson III ..............Georgetown ...............................................8 168 78 .683

24. Brad Brownell .....................Wright St. ..................................................6 127 60 .679

25. Ben Howland ......................UCLA ......................................................14 294 144 .671

26. Stew Morrill ........................Utah St. ...................................................22 455 224 .670

27. Pat Douglass ........................UC Irvine.................................................27 547 273 .667

28. Gregg Marshall ...................Wichita St. ..............................................10 205 103 .666

29. Bob Hoffman ......................Mercer .....................................................14 310 156 .665

30. Tom Crean ..........................Indiana .......................................................9 190 96 .664

31. Rick Barnes .........................Texas .......................................................21 449 227 .664

32. Tony Shaver ........................William & Mary ......................................22 413 214 .659

33. Mike Brey ...........................Notre Dame .............................................13 266 138 .658

34. Larry Hunter ........................Western Caro. .........................................28 543 282 .658

35. Bart Lundy ..........................High Point ...............................................10 202 106 .656

36. Jeff Price .............................Ga. Southern ...........................................15 291 155 .652

37. Keith Dambrot ....................Akron ......................................................10 200 108 .649

38. Blaine Taylor .......................Old Dominion .........................................14 277 150 .649

39. L. Vann Pettaway ................Alabama A&M ........................................22 421 229 .648

40. Tim Floyd ............................Southern California .................................15 306 167 .647

41. Mark Gottfried ....................Alabama ..................................................13 267 147 .645

42. Rick Stansbury ....................Mississippi St. .........................................10 208 115 .644

1-14 are not coming here, nor are 16, 17, 20-23, 25, 30, 31, 33, 40, or 41. Our coach averages a 20-11 record for his career. There is no firing him for a coach with a worse record than that. Who are we going to hire that guarantees us 25 wins a year? Look at that list. Are we bringing in Ben Howland? There is nobody on that list I can point to and say "He's a definite upgrade, and it's a lock we'd get him if we offered."

Dawgbreeze · Dec 19, 2008

Maroon Eagle, I agree with some of your points and I also disagree with a couple. I don't think Richard Williams built anything. He let Rick and Brady bring in some talent and then was very fortunate for a couple of years. He was lazy at recuiting and would have never had any success had those guys not been on his staff. As far as Rugg, good defensive coach and because of no shot clock, could control tempo and play slow down game. I think it is a whole different game now and Rick does a heck of a job with the talent he has. This team is young and undersized. Now maybe Brian Johnson will get well one day but Jarvis can't do it alone and believe me he has improved greatly in the time he has been here. I think we are having problems because our young players are still making far too many mistakes particularly Bost and Twanny at times and Elgin has bad hands. I think it is only fair to wait till the conference is over to pass judgement and we aren't going to get many better than Stansbury at MSU because Coaches like Coach K, Donovan, Roy Williams, and Izzo, aren't coming here.

dawgstudent · Dec 19, 2008

let's say you are Greg Byrne and MSU doesn't go to the tourney the next 2 years, what do you do?

DawgatAuburn · Dec 19, 2008

If that is the case, I would start negotiating with Gregg Marshall in late Feb. 2010 and try to close the deal and be ready to announce about a week after the season ends. Marshall makes $750k a year, so we would have to pony up. And I would definitely also interview Turner Gill just to be safe.

HD6 · Dec 19, 2008

MSUCostanza · Dec 19, 2008

to make a move just to make a move. You have to be certain or at least fairly certain that you are upgrading. Otherwise, there is no sense in firing a coach with a .642 win pct. See also Tuberville, Tommy. If we get rid of Stansbury, what if we wind up with our version of Gene Chizik? That is a definite possibility. Nobody is happy that we haven't made it to the 2nd weekend. But those saying it's a no-brainer that we can do better have never given any examples of who that might be. Gregg Marshall? Is that a lock that he's an upgrade? I'm definitely not sure. This ain't like replacing an uninterested and lazy Polk, or an incompetent Croom.

Coach34 · Dec 19, 2008

but if we miss the Tourney this year AND next, you wouldnt be for replacing him? Missing the Dance 4 out of 5 years isnt enough?

DawgatAuburn · Dec 19, 2008

I think the crux of this argument is what would you rather have. Someone who recruits well but is not much of a tactical coach or someone who has all the X's and O's but is not a stellar recruiter. We've had the former for the last 10 years with varying degrees of success.

I will amend my earlier answer with this, inspired by Croom. Stansbury, in my opinion, gets NO help from his staff. There's a reason Kirby can't get a head coaching job, and why Cunningham is never even mentioned for one. They are in the Stansbury mode. We all know who the best floor coach amongst the assistants in the Stansbury era. If we go another year without making the tournament, Stans should have to let go of at least one of those guys in favor of someone who brings a different expertise to the table.

The uber frustrating part about Stans is I have seen him coach beautiful games from the floor, especially in the last two years when he had Gordon to work with. But those performances are inconsistent. We look great one night, and terrible the next.

MSUCostanza · Dec 19, 2008

you say this 10,000 times per season. But you have never suggested who you think would be an upgrade that we could reasonably get. So let's hear it. Nobody would be happy missing the tournament 4 out of 5 years, including me. But, again, this isn't like replacing some incompetent moron like Croom. You're replacing a guy who has won a helluva lot of basketball games, and won championships. You have to prove that you can upgrade, or there is no reasonable excuse to replace him. And considering Stansbury's record and win pct, you better come up with a pretty big name to replace him.

MSUCostanza · Dec 19, 2008

if you are talking about Stan Jones, but he's never been mentioned for a head job either. All he's done is carry Leonard Hamilton's luggage for the last 10 years. And the year we went 25-2 in the regular season and won the SEC title, Stan Jones was not in Starkville. Although I'm sure JA and MC miss his expertise.

I agree that Rick's assistants are probably not helping. And Rick is no John Wooden or Dean Smith. I don't think anyone has ever said that. But, like I said, when you look at his resume, you had better come up with a "wow" name to replace him if you're wanting to get rid of him. Otherwise, we would look pretty damn foolish, again I'll bring up Auburn firing Tuberville. Unless they had landed a Mike Leach or somebody, you're downgrading. And now they look like a bunch of idiots. That has a good chance of happening to us. Like HD6 said.. is Tom Izzo going to come here? Ben Howland? Gary Williams?

Let's also remember that Stans never got a lot of support from Mr. Templedick either. Remember the digital video equipment he wanted and was denied? Let's see how Byrne handles him. And also, let's see how the entire season plays out before the wailing and gnashing of teeth like C34 loves to do. Hell, he's already got us missing the 2010 tourney.

DawgatAuburn · Dec 19, 2008

I don't know why but I don't. There's more money in football. The coaches tend to be under more of a spotlight for the most part. I just don't see nearly the outrage happening when hoops coaches are let go. Brady is a decent example. In the Final Four two years ago to unemployed. And barely anyone complained about it. Granted he did not have the body of work Tubs had. I don't know....I just don't think it is the same thing.

HD6 · Dec 19, 2008

you make for keeping him.

One more time, how many of Stans' boys are in the NBA? NONE.

And yet, despite lacking elite talent, we still average 20 wins a year with him as our coach.

DawgatAuburn · Dec 19, 2008

A good college player does not always make a good NBA player. We've beaten that horse to death on this board.

We've had no elite talens? Look at the list of All-SEC players we have had since 2000.

2001-02: Mario Austin (2nd AP & Coaches)
Derrick Zimmerman (3rd AP)
2002-03: Mario Austin (1st AP & Coaches)
Timmy Bowers (3rd AP)
Derrick Zimmerman (3rd AP)
2003-04: Timmy Bowers (1st AP & Coaches)
Lawrence Roberts (1st AP & Coaches)
2004-05: Lawrence Roberts (1st AP & Coaches)
Shane Power (2nd Coaches)
2005-06: Charles Rhodes (2nd AP & Coaches)
2006-07: Jamont Gordon (1st Coaches & 2nd AP)
Charles Rhodes (2nd Coaches)
2007-08: Jamont Gordon (1st Coaches & 1st AP)
Charles Rhodes (1st Coaches & 2nd AP)
Jarvis Varnado (Honorable Mention AP)

I am sure you will say being among the best of the pitiful SEC does not make you elite, so here are our All Americans?
2002-03: Mario Austin (5th Team Foxsports.com;
Honorable Mention AP)
2003-04: Lawrence Roberts (Consensus 1st Team)
2004-05: Lawrence Roberts (Honorable Mention AP)
2006-07: Jamont Gordon (3rd Team Rivals.com)
2007-08: Jamont Gordon (2nd Team Scout.com;
6th team ESPN.com)

That's pretty darn impressive and probably exceeds everyone in the SEC except UK and UF since 2000.

Stormrider81 · Dec 19, 2008

First they say Stans is a great recruiter and a bad floor coach, pointing out that he wins because of recruiting. Then they say that Stans has no players in the NBA, which would mean he isn't quite the great recruiter they make him out to be but also means he is a better floor coach than they make him out to be.

I think Patdog is right, Stans is somewhere in between. He is a good recruiter, but not mind blowing. He is a decent floor coach, but not great. Bottom line is the guy consistently wins games at one of the historically worst programs in the SEC.

DISTRICT DOG · Dec 19, 2008

i'll play Hubble brown...if we don't make the tourney or atleast the finals in the NIT yea we get rid of Stans, and for all of you who say who do we hire to replace him I believe I know a guy who is currently unemployed by the name of Bobby Knight who would not only be a ticket seller but would also bring a championship attitude to state...just beware of the flying chairs

Mullenation · Dec 19, 2008

Stans has done a good job for MSU over the last 8-10 years compared to baseball and football. We have the tools in place for great football now and we have always had the tools in place to succeed in baseball. Stans doesnt leave until after we build a basketball practice arena like the top notch basketball programs have. Stans needs all the help he can get to keep all the great players he recruits because he obviously has a weakness in coaching and keeping them happy.

SWFLDawg · Dec 20, 2008

It's very good talent sprinkled around mediocre role players. Elite players make it to the NBA. LR is the only one on that list that anyone outside of MS could name.

MSUCostanza · Dec 20, 2008

[No message]

HD6 · Dec 20, 2008

aren't Coach's or Associated Press, then I'm not interested. Scout.com, did Gene get a vote?

I did a pretty comprehensive list awhile back showing that almost every team in the Sweet Sixteen since 2001 had at least one player on an NBA roster today on it. Most had a couple. A majority had a lottery pick. I thought Lawrence Roberts was our only player in the league, but then I found his <a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/lawrence_roberts/index.html">player profile page.

</a> The only truly elite players Stansbury has recruited were Travis Outlaw and Monta Ellis, and we know how that turned out. Elite players go to the NBA.

MSUCostanza · Dec 20, 2008

on your list of potential replacements, and how they are an upgrade. Take your time.

MSUCostanza · Dec 20, 2008

Of players on NBA rosters, by college. Top 10. See a trend?

Code:

 [b][u]School In NBA [/u][/b]Duke 14 Connecticut 12 UCLA 12 Kansas 11 North Carolina 11 Arizona 9 Florida 9 Georgia Tech 9 Kentucky 9 Michigan St. 8

dawgstudent · Dec 20, 2008

Just because of Stansbury's past success doesn't give him a free ride for the remainder of his career. If he doesn't make the tourney the next 2 seasons, that's 4 out of 5 that has been stated above.

It's somewhat of a risk to fire Stansbury because he is a proven winner but to me, you have to continue that success and 4 out of 5 is not doing it. It's just a risk you have to take. A goal of the basketball program should be 3 out of 5 years = NCAA tourney berth.

I didn't really answer your question who could we get that is better because I am not sure who would come. But sooner or later, if he doesn't produce, you have to look elsewhere.

MSUCostanza · Dec 20, 2008

Let's not forget that after Bob Boyd, the only person who would even consider the job was an assistant coach who just a few years earlier was coaching junior high and teaching algebra in Natchez. Fortunately for us, Richard Williams was one hell of a coach, and he hired some excellent assistants that recruited like crazy. One of those has sustained what Williams built out of absolute garbage. When we made the NIT in 1990, it was our 3rd postseason appearance - EVER. Since then, we've been to the NCAA tournament in 1991, 1995, 1996, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2008. NIT tournaments in 1994, 1999, 2001, 2007. That's 12 out of 19, after 3 appearances in close to a century.

SkinsDawg · Dec 20, 2008

Do we want a recruiter or a coach? Stansbury can't be both because he doesn't know how to coach. If he did know how to coach we wouldn't have seen Jamont Gordon and Gary Ervin blazing down the lane only to turn it over every other trip down the court. Period.

I would much rather have a coach who could do more with less than a recruiter who did less with more. That said, I love Stans. He needs to go to a Camp for Coaches to learn some X's and O's.

mstateglfr · Dec 20, 2008

HD6 said:
I thought Lawrence Roberts was our only player in the league, but then I found his player profile page.

do you mean Dampier?...cuz Roberts hasnt been in the league since the '06-'07 season. he fell off the map after that season. signed with Olympiacos, was cut by them before the season even started because he wasnt what they expected, went into hiding for the entire season, and is now in Belgrade playing for Red Star.

Coach34 · Dec 20, 2008

we could bring in for over a million a year. Our last two head coaches were no-name assistants that turned out to be pretty damn good. Who says we have to hire a Head Coach from another school? A successful assistant from a big school could be an outstanding hire as well. The ninja has pulled off two outstanding hires so far, and should he have to make a 3rd, I feel like he will do so once aGAIN.

I've been telling you guys for 4 years that Lawrence Roberts coming here saved Stansbury's ***. He would have been fired already had that not happened. We were 17'ed that season in the post until we got lucky and Baylor players started shooting each other. If SWAT leaves early for the draft, we are going to be in trouble next year too in the post.

Coach34 · Dec 20, 2008

when you schedule plenty of McNeese State's and SE Louisiana's...Stansbury has a losing record against major college teams not in the SEC

Also, how tough has the West been the last 10 years? I dont have the time this morning, but it would be interesting to look at the entire conference record-wise the last 10 years. My guess is rthat it is going to be Kentucky, Florida, and everybody else jumbled together.

And from your list General, I did see that Gottfried still has a better coaching record that Stansbury....

DerHntr · Dec 20, 2008

we now have a foundation and can do better.

/good post. tough to read though. 3 times? damn.

Coach34 · Dec 20, 2008

SWFLDawg said:
It's very good talent sprinkled around mediocre role players. Elite players make it to the NBA. LR is the only one on that list that anyone outside of MS could name.

Elite players like Renaldo Balkman? He wasnt half the player Rhodes was in college. JJ Reddick is the all-time ACC scorer, yet cant hardly get in a game in the NBA. The all-time scorer in the top basketball conference in the country the last 25 years, and he hardly gets to play in the NBA.

Good college players dont necessarily make it to the NBA. How many NBA games did Darryl Wilson play in? Are you telling me he wasnt a great college player? Because you would be lying if you did.

I could go on and on, but you get what i'm saying

DawgatAuburn · Dec 20, 2008

HD6 wrote: Elite players go to the NBA.

This is where you are wrong. It's just not that cut and dried. Even you have to know that it is a different game at the NBA level. More isolation. More one on one. More pick and roll. The college game is more about tempo, motion and tougher defense. There are multiple, multiple examples of elite college players who are barely hanging on in the NBA. Some of them get the guaranteed three year contract when they are drafted and never play in the NBA any more. Three years ago Wayne Simien was a college superstar. He was elite, right?. Now he is in Spain. Costanza and the other Duke haters have reveled in JJ Redick's struggles in the NBA. I daresay he was an elite college player no matter how much you hate him and Duke. Shelden Williams is another Duke guy who can't get off the bench and is already with his second team. Dee Brown was the leader of the Illinois team that was the runner up and only got a shot last year due to injuries and is out of the league again. And on and on.

College players have no guarantee of success in the NBA. If that's the way it worked, the All American teams would be a mock draft filled with one and done guys and ignoring the Hansbroughs of the world. All Americans are the elite of the elite, period. If you are in a power conference and have all league players, you have elite talent. There are what, six power conferences? Each with 10-14 teams? So say 70 teams, that's 350 starters plus usually one bench guy who gets big minutes per team so maybe 400 guys. If you have an all league guy in one of those six conferences then he is in the top 7% or so of those 400 players. That's elite.

You don't have to agree. You are free to be stubborn and wrong.

MSUCostanza · Dec 20, 2008

You don't have any, do you?

Coach34 · Dec 20, 2008

I didnt have Dan Mullen's name either before we hired him to be the football coach. We will be able to find someone and hope you dont go all KB21 on us when we do in the Spring of 2010

kired · Dec 20, 2008

Garciacamebackadawg said:
One more time, how many of Stans' boys are in the NBA? NONE.

Quality NBA players (guys that stick around for more than 1-2 years) typically aren't coached up........they're born with it. Most good NBA players could go to any college in the US and still make it to the NBA.

She Mate Me · Dec 20, 2008

that rather than focusing on the pointless and baseless projection that we might miss the NCAA tourney in 09 and 10 making it 4 out of 5, why not focus on the FACT that we have been to the NCAA tourney 5 of the last 7 years. Don't feel like looking it up, but I doubt many schools with our budget and history even come close to that record, nuf said!!

I'm calling out the Stansbury critics/haters.

All-American

Heisman

Redshirt

Junior

Redshirt

Redshirt

Sophomore

Redshirt

Heisman

All-Conference

Sophomore

Redshirt

Redshirt

All-Conference

Redshirt

Redshirt

All-Conference

Sophomore

All-Conference

Redshirt

Redshirt

Redshirt

Redshirt

Redshirt

Sophomore

Redshirt

Redshirt

Heisman

Redshirt

Redshirt

All-American

Redshirt

Redshirt

All-Conference

Redshirt

All-Conference

Redshirt

Redshirt

All-Conference

All-American