I'm calling out the Stansbury critics/haters.

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Maroon Eagle

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Dawgbreeze, so many topics to discuss here. Let's start with Richard Williams. Considering the shape of the program in the 1980s when Williams took over with average attendance being less than that of baseball, I believe my assertion that he built the program is valid.

I also disagree with the laziness point. You say Williams let Brady and Stansbury bring in talent, but I recall that it wasn't quite as easy. Williams's core recruiting class that later won the 1991 regular season title were for the most part unheralded players in high school with the exceptions being Joe Courtney and Chancellor Nichols both of whom later transferred from MSU.

Additionally, I'd go so far as to say Brady is no Stansbury as far as recruiting is concerned and wasn't as good a recruiter for MSU as is often credited. Of course, a lot of it had to do with the fact that top high school players in Mississippi tended look first to out-of-state colleges.

The shot clock was in effect during Williams's tenure as head coach-- albeit that of the 45-second variety-- so Williams's teams couldn't play as deliberate an offensive style as Bob Boyd's teams, but they could play defense. While the 1990-91 team was a surprise that was a culmination from most of a recruiting class sticking around and gaining experience, Williams had very good teams in the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons.

A lot of schools in the SEC have been going small/quick with their lineups, so I don't know if being undersized is a valid excuse yet, but we will see. We are young though. Like you, I want to see how the team and individual players will progress over the course of the season. I think we mostly agree here.
 

MSUCostanza

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We aren't talking about replacing Croom. There were dozens upon dozens of qualified replacements for him that were a guaranteed upgrade. He was an abject failure, so upgrading over him was not exactly a daunting task, and the risk of replacing Croom was incredibly low.

Stansbury is a proven winner, with multiple championships, and is responsible either directly or indirectly for virtually every postseason appearance in school history. Replacing him is a huge risk, and if you do so, you better be damn sure what you're doing. That's why I'm interested in who you have in mind, since you've already declared 2009 and 2010 as failed seasons.

It doesn't surprise me that you are comparing getting rid of Croom with getting rid of Stansbury, because you are an idiot.
 

slickdawg

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MSUCostanza said:
Of players on NBA rosters, by college. Top 10. See a trend?

Code:
 [b][u]School In NBA [/u][/b]Duke 14 Connecticut 12 UCLA 12 Kansas 11 North Carolina 11 Arizona 9 Florida 9 Georgia Tech 9 Kentucky 9 Michigan St. 8

Bender, Ellis, Outlaw, there's three right there we lost because the NBA doesn't nicely like the NFL and MLB.</p>

Stansbury is an exceptional recruiter, is a very good coach, and is right up there with SEC Wins with Florida and Kentucky. </p>

He's had to deal with some attitudes (Delk, Delk and Hans wannabe), and that's resulted in us being really young this year. Jarvis and Randy are our experience, the rest are all noobs.</p>

</p>
 

She Mate Me

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what does the fact that you can't do that basic level of research mean about how much we should care what you think?
 

BlindDawg

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I think any talk of getting rid of Stans is absurd right now. Coach34 and others, get back to me if we don't make the tournament next year and we'll have the "what if" discussion then. Stans has proven that he can put us in the tournament regularly so worrying about not making it next year isn't really a concern right now when lots of things can happen between now and then.

I do agree with D@A that a change on the assistants staff is needed. I really like all of our assistants and think they are decent coaches. But I think they have been here so long complacency may have set in, and a move to bring in a better floor coach and really just new blood is needed.
 

Coach34

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"Stans has proven that he can put us in the tournament regularly so worrying about not making it next year isn't really a concern right now when lots of things can happen between now and then."

one trip in four years as "regular"...in case you havent watched us, we arent going this season
 

Coach34

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Lighten up. Its obvious this season is going to be an ugly one. And it was pretty much expected by levelheaded fans...but that aside, this will be 3 of the last 4 seasons we wont be in the NCAA Tourney

And you dont have to worry about my list. If we dont make it in next year, you'll be worrying about Byrne's list
 

MSUCostanza

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4 years in a row "regular"?

You can't pick and choose time periods to prove your point and ignore time periods that refute you.
 

MSUCostanza

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you ignore questions you don't want to answer.

Again, how in the hell can you compare replacing Croom to replacing Stansbury? Who are the guys that are a guaranteed upgrade that we can get?
 

Coach34

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MSUCostanza said:
4 years in a row "regular"?

You can't pick and choose time periods to prove your point and ignore time periods that refute you.

why fire Jackie? We had all that late 90's success with him, why did you want him gone just because we had a few bad seasons to from 2001-2003? Stansbury's teams are not getting the job done NOW. SEC West titles are fairly worthless in basketball and baseball. Its about making the NCAA Tourney
 

ImHurtinLinda

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Everyone talks about Stansbury's recruiting talent being so great and how they underachieve - this is just stupid.

Stansbury is an above average recruiter based on the level of talent that he brings to MSU.

How many McDonald's All Americans have suited up for Stansbury? I'm pretty sure that the answer is one-Mario Austin - IN 10 YEARS!!! That is a about 4 or 5 fewer than is on UNC, UCLA, Texas, Duke, Etc. roster EVERY YEAR!!!

Give Stansbury a roster of 4 or 5 McDonald's All Americans every year, and I can pretty much guarantee you that he would have them in the Final Four very, very regularly.

Stansbury has top 30 talent, and achieves as expected for that talent (a little better when we are more experienced, and little worse when we are younger).

This year, we are young, not as physical as we need to be in the post, and don't have anyone that can create their own offense (i.e. Gordon). This team will have to shoot well this year and get scrappier for rebounds to win this year.

Stansbury is fine-he like any other coach needs the right mix of talent and experience to win-ain't going to happen every year at State. Crap-it's hard to make it happen every year at Carolina, Kansas, etc.
 

DawgatAuburn

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Anything short of Roy Williams or Ben Howland and you would proclaim "fail" or some other catchy internet word.

There are plenty of coaches in smaller conferences that would be an upgrade over Rick. The truth is that neither you nor I nor coach are as familiar with the 320 something basketball coaches as we are the 119 football coaches. There are also many good assistants looking for a chance at a head coaching job.

Here are some names for you to laugh at and proclaim as failures.

Larry Shyatt at Florida. Did not succeed at Clemson, but his defense is the reason there are two crystal basketballs in Gainesville. Perhaps he has learned from Donovan.

Butch Pierre did a pretty good job replacing Brady last year.

Rick Byrd at Belmont always does well.

Kermit Davis has done decent at MTSU and is a State graduate.

Anthony Grant at VCU who we could keep until Florida takes him.

Gregg Marshall at Wichita State.

I will say again for the record I really like Rick. This conversation is based on speculation, and I would be fine to speculate that we are going to the NCAAs this year and the Sweet 16 next year. That being said, I wish we were more consistent in everything we do, and I think he could benefit from cutting loose at least one of his assistants if not both. I don't think they bring a lot to the table.
 
Nov 16, 2005
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I will say again for the record I really like Rick. This conversation is based on speculation, and I would be fine to speculate that we are going to the NCAAs this year and the Sweet 16 next year. That being said, I wish we were more consistent in everything we do, and I think he could benefit from cutting loose at least one of his assistants if not both. I don't think they bring a lot to the table.
I totally agree with you. I had heard back in the fall of some rumors about staff changes to the bball team but apparently nothing of the such happened. I liked your last two names on the list out of the ones you listed.
 

Coach34

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Dont think we cant find a coach to come in here and get us to an NCAA Tourney more than once in 5 years then I cant help you.

I've only said he should be replaced if we dont make the Tourney next season. Its obvious we arent going this year. Next year his job should be on the line</p>

I repeat- there are at least 100 coaches around the nation we could hire to come in, fill his schedule full of McNeese State"s and SE Louisiana's to get his winning percentage up, compete in a weak SEC West, and make the NCAA Tourney once out of 5 years</p>
 

Coach34

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I dont have any. I havent done the research. As D@A said, there are 320 D-1 basketball teams with head coaches, plus assistants. Should Stansbury continue his offseason pattern of transfers and such, then I will begin looking for names because Byrne will too.

If this team could stay intact for 2009-2010, then it should be an NCAA Tourney team
 

She Mate Me

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We have been to the NCAA tourney 5 of the last 7 years (and almost won the NIT) yet you continually say 1 NCAA in the last 5 years because you are projecting a talented young team's 7 and 4 record out to two years of no NCAA tourney. This is one of the more ridiculous arguements I have ever seen. I hope no principal ever judges your performance this way, for your sake.
 
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Coach34 said:
"Its going to happen from time to time, but 1 trip in 4 years is unacceptable


I am a fan of Stans and all but this is dead on. Its time we did something in March. We had a great SEC season last year. But we pissed away the SEC tourney last year against UGA. There was no excuse for that, and it cost us.

Seriously, I like Stans. But 1 trip in 4 doesn't work for me. 1 in 5 is grounds for dismissal. You can hate Coach all you want. But he's right on this one. Stans is playing for his job next year.
 

She Mate Me

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If you can't research enough to know that we have been to the NCAAs 2 of the last 4 years then you just need to not comment. We also had a really nice and fun run in the NIT one of those non NCAA years. Please get a life or simply quit posting.
 

Coach34

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we have been once in the last 3 years...we will miss it this year...that makes once in the last 4 years...If we are truly one of the top 3 teams in the SEC as so many of you Stansbury sheep proclaim, then an NIT trip is not considering a successful season.

We are also seeing a very disturbing trend of player transfers and constant teams that are "young". There is no way for our program to be consistent with that going on. Stansbury's best days are behind him
 

fishwater99

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DawgatAuburn said:
That one cost us a 7 seed. No doubt in my mind. Beat Bama on Friday night, beat a horrible UGA team on Saturday in front of friends and family at Tech, and you are playing the Hogs for the sixth time in two years, this time for a trophy and with a win there, probably a 6 seed.

That was the worst coaching Stans has ever done, I am still pissed about that one.
 

She Mate Me

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more than one. The two that are most obvious to me are 1) you are wrong frequently. 2) you typically do not recognize when you are wrong and do not admit it and move on to another subject which you might know more about.</p>

Now it is 1 out of 3 (which, oh my gosh, is correct). It was 1 out of 5, etc etc etc. It is really 5 out of 7 and that should be easily good enough. This is Miss State and I and many others are realistic and realize that this is a wonderful record which needs to be applauded and cheered rather than whatever it is you think you are doing, but please enjoy your pit of despair. We have had one team in 100 years good enough to make the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tourney (and it really is one because it was basically the same team two years in a row, Dontae just made a Sweet 16 team into a Final 4 team). Even with that, some MSU fans seem to think the Sweet 16 is an MSU birthright and Stans is the only reason we aren't there every year.</p>

</p>
 
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Coach34 said:
SWFLDawg said:
It's very good talent sprinkled around mediocre role players. Elite players make it to the NBA. LR is the only one on that list that anyone outside of MS could name.
Elite players like Renaldo Balkman? He wasnt half the player Rhodes was in college. JJ Reddick is the all-time ACC scorer, yet cant hardly get in a game in the NBA. The all-time scorer in the top basketball conference in the country the last 25 years, and he hardly gets to play in the NBA.

Good college players dont necessarily make it to the NBA. How many NBA games did Darryl Wilson play in? Are you telling me he wasnt a great college player? Because you would be lying if you did.

I could go on and on, but you get what i'm saying

As much as I hate doing this, I am going to back Coach again. He is right. Everyone was talking to **** to fishwater about Gordon last year saying "Good college players dont necessarily make it to the NBA."
 
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try comprehending what was said.

AFTER THIS YEAR, we will be 1 for 4 as far as NCAA tourney appearances go. You can not conceivably hate that <17>in' prick more than I do. But he's right. It is time to put up or shut up. Stans is coaching for his job next season.
 

She Mate Me

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1) Where was anything said about 1 of 4 because it hasn't happened yet, even though it may be more likely than not. It has been stated incorrectly throughout this thread as a fact when it is not and is very misleading as to the overall Stans' record.
2) If you are going to mention 1 of 4 (which, as has been stated, hasn't happened yet), why not mention: 5 out of 7, 4 in a row, 8 of 10 (years in NIT or NCAA, in other words-top 75 type team), making the MSU program the third or fourth best program in the 2nd or 3rd best conference in the US over the last 10 years (in other words, one of the top 2 coaching performances in MSU's 100 years of basketball)
3) If he is coaching for his job next year, then we have truly lost our way in allowing an AD trying to make a name for himself too much lattitude. Byrne has not made a misstep yet, as far as I can tell, but absolutely nothing has been accomplished yet on a field (although I, like many, am very hopeful). I believe Stans will certainly not be coaching for his job next season or anytime soon, and that is because morons like you, thankfully, have no influence.
 
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First, we are't making the Big Dance this year. If you can't see that, you're a homer. If you're a homer, your opinion doesn't mean a thing to me.

Second, call me crazy, but the NIT does not mean **** to me. Seriously, the NIT is like jerking off on prom night.

Third, if Byrne doesn't do something to address the complete disregard for success that our basketball dept has adopted, I won't fell good (I bet you were satisfied with a 9 seed last year). I like Byrne, I think he has done a spectacular job thus far.

A lot of people don't understand how hard it was to tell Polk to <17> off. But Coach is right on this one, we won't make the tourney this season (care to argue that?).

Why don't you continue to call me names? Does it make you feel better? How will you feel if I end up being right?
 
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you don't have the slightest idea as to what you are talking about. You just won't answer me when I bring up numbers to counter your free throw argument. Why is that?
 

She Mate Me

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In this case it apparently is. If the NIT does't mean **** to you and you think that this staff has shown a disregard for success then I would encourage you to review the history of MSU basketball (and all sports) for some perspective on why longer term fans might be satisfied and even giddy over what Stans has accomplished.

Losing a tight game to the 2nd best team in the country in the NCAAs may be a failure to you, but it is a victory to a guy who has lived through a lot of MSU Bball prior to the 90's and 00's You appear to be unrealistic about success at MSU so I suggest you bandwagon onto UK (Oh, they're kinda struggling lately, so maybe not) or UNC so you can be unhappy and unrealistic at a higher level.

I am a Byrne fan. I was just pointing out that his hires have done absolutely nothing at MSU yet (although I expect they will), while Stans has put up a record that is enviable to say the least, considering where he has done it.

By the way, if you end up being right about Stans coaching for his job next season, I will feel like we made a mistke in the selection of an AD. I don't think we did, so you will be wrong. If you were referring to your prediction of no NCAA, then you are indeed a guru if that happens in a year that no one expected us to make it.
 

kired

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ShineOnYouCrazyBulldog said:
we won't make the tourney this season (care to argue that?).
Is that based on the same logic people used when they said we wouldn't make it last year - after starting 9-5 before league play? Remember, we lost to some crappy teams then too (Southern Illinois, Miami OH). But this Charlotte game may take the cake - although they did nearly upset Clemson as well.

Anyway, I agree we're likely to not make the tournament - but anything can happen when SEC play starts. I've kind of wondered if Stans is playing a lot of guys early so he can find out who we can depend on later this season. I expect we'll begin to see some guys gain more playing time, while others will sit out more (Benock anyone?) I think the key is having another big man emerge as a go to guy - somebody between Augustus, Osby (who I think will be great in a few years), Bailey, & Johnson (if he gets back soon) has got to step and perform - rebounds & points.

As pitiful as our team looks, I just feel it's too early to lock us out of the tournament this year. Again - I think we probably will miss out, but I'm willing to wait another month before I say all hope is lost.
 

Coach34

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"The two that are most obvious to me are 1) you are wrong frequently"

provide some examples of this, because i've been pretty much dead on with Stansbury. I did miss how many SEC games last years team would win, but was only one off my season win total prediction. And Gordon's Freshman and Sophomore years I was dead solid perfect. I said repeatedly SHOULD he go 1 for 5 that he should be gone, because come March- he will be 1 for 4

Dont just make **** up, enlighten me please
 

Coach34

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"Is that based on the same logic people used when they said we wouldn't make it last year - after starting 9-5 before league play? Remember, we lost to some crappy teams then too (Southern Illinois, Miami OH). But this Charlotte game may take the cake - although they did nearly upset Clemson as well."

Last year was based on the fact we had been underachieving and everybody knew it. Those of us with basketball sense also knew every game we lost was blowing our chance at a good seed. And what happened? A 9 seed for a team that easily should have been a 5 seed. So, by losing games he shouldnt have, Stansbury does a ****** job, yet many of you that dont know **** just see the fact we made the NCAA Tourney and think Ricky has done something great.

This season, we arent underachieving- we just arent very good. Our low post offense is dogshit. We played the worst 2-3 zone against Cincy I have ever seen. We are inconsistent with our shooting due to inexperience. Lots of turnovers. Plain and simple- this team just isnt very good this year. Couple that with Ricky's in game coaching, and you get a ****** season.

Come March- this will make 1 NCAA in the last 4.
 

mstateglfr

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MSUCostanza said:
You don't have any, do you?

Anthony Grant

i know im not coach, and i have no idea if he would even be interested. but he is at a lower level, he has shown he can coach and recruit well, even given the limitations built into the school he is at.
 

HighPointDawg

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Every time you post you say something even dumber than the last time.

Gordon was most definitely NOT a Mc All Star and he wasn't even really considered. It would have taken you 30 seconds to figure that out without posting more crap.
 

She Mate Me

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Those of us with good sense (and humility rather than self delusion) realize we know tremendously less about coaching at the SEC level than Stans.

Based on that, our only real way of judging him is to compare his record to previous results at our school, then to compare our school's current commitment (financial and otherwise) to basketball vs. the rest of the schools in the country, and then to assess his overall performance against those criteria. His record speaks for itself and I find it highly unlikely that any but the very best college coaches in the country could do better for as long. We'll never know, but I tend to think they most would have a hard time matching Rick's record, even if he can't say freshmen without an S.

I'll make this my final post to this thread, because it is becoming pointless.</p>
 
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