I'm sure this wil catch some flack,

512taylor

Redshirt
Sep 2, 2012
1,546
0
0
but I think Henderson and his staff need to stay.

Yeah. I know he has made some questionable calls, but he inherited a bad situation. Look where we are now and that is all that really matters.

Who among us has NOT made some bad calls in their work life?

I know I have.

Fire away.
 

Coast Dawg

Redshirt
Feb 28, 2008
364
0
0
Just let it continue to play out because his interview is getting better and better... just needs more time
 

T-TownDawgg

All-Conference
Nov 4, 2015
4,425
3,886
113
I think the current staff has done a great job getting this fragmented team early in the season to come together and play their best ball at the right time.

Conversely, the talent is there. MSU baseball is a beast; winning in spite of some glaringly bonehead moves. Thanks, Gary, great job. But we need fresh air to supercharge this idling big block.
 

TBone.sixpack

Redshirt
Feb 2, 2011
9,759
0
0
I think as a fan base we bought into the passionate high energy Cann type. Henderson is really laid back and doesn't show much emotion. I think that contrast has worked against him as much as anything.

If he does land the job we need some high energy recruiter types on staff. Is Gautreau a solid recruiter?
 

gymdawg.sixpack

Redshirt
Aug 26, 2012
1,724
0
0
No....i dont know how to say this any cleaer....but this team is winning because of player leadership. Henderson lost us a lot of games because of high school decisions
 

RutherfordBHayes

Redshirt
Nov 4, 2014
767
14
18
Flak

The pro-Henderson guys (both of them) seem to forget that we have a body of work by which we can judge Henderson. He has done an admirable job in a few months, but he is not a good option.
 

Bucky Dog

Redshirt
Nov 10, 2012
904
0
0
Watching them last night, the team really responds to Gautreau and he is a leader to them. Notvdissing Gary but Jake is whobthe team looks to IMO.
 

AssEndDawg

Freshman
Aug 1, 2007
3,183
54
48
I understand where you are coming from but you have to understand this is an EMOTIONAL decision you are making. We need to find a leader for the next 15 years. What Henderson has done is to be applauded and if we make it to Omaha I will be surprised if he doesn’t get Coach of the Year, but he simply isn’t the future of MSU Baseball.

Now, I might be more on board with a known time period and an Associate Coach situation. I hear a lot of good things about Gautreau. Everyone thinks he will be a great head coach in the future. So the only way I see this working is letting Henderson hold the reins while we groom. Kinda the same thing we did with Cann but without the title that can get a young guy in trouble. I still would only be ok with this if other options were limited.

Cohen needs to make a business decision, not an emotional decision. This is about getting ROI in a $55 million stadium. We have to look to the future no matter how fun the present and recent past have been.
 

onewoof

Heisman
Mar 4, 2008
13,154
10,775
113
IB was talking up Henderson like I've never heard him before. Saying how he was making brilliant calls. Sounded like he's staying.
 

RutherfordBHayes

Redshirt
Nov 4, 2014
767
14
18
Cohen took Kentucky from the worst SEC program and won the SEC.
Henderson took over and averaged about 34 wins over 8 years, won 40 games once, and made a regional twice.
Just, no.
 

Hugh's Burner Phone

All-Conference
Aug 3, 2017
4,798
4,727
113
Just let it continue to play out because his interview is getting better and better... just needs more time

If he wants to apply for the job and he goes in and IB asks him why he should have it and Hendo sets the NC trophy on his desk and then leans back in his chair and props his feet up...that should take care of it.
 

preacher_dawg

All-Conference
Nov 12, 2014
2,526
1,785
113
but I think Henderson and his staff need to stay.

Yeah. I know he has made some questionable calls, but he inherited a bad situation. Look where we are now and that is all that really matters.

Who among us has NOT made some bad calls in their work life?

I know I have.

Fire away.

This is exactly why I started a thread a few weeks ago asking if it would be better if the new coach was already selected and announced. I got blasted for it. Heck, I even blasted myself.
 

Philly Dawg

All-American
Oct 6, 2012
10,372
5,279
113
The bonehead moves most complained of here were using Cole Gordon. IMO, Gordon has repaid the team well for the faith placed in him. We have a bias to only remember managerial decisions when they don’t work. If roles had been reversed last night with Gordon and France, this board would have been apoplectic.
 

Shmuley

All-American
Mar 6, 2008
23,403
8,994
113
Thank God in heaven LT is not making this hire. Because your suggestion would be a classic LT move.
 
Sep 8, 2008
4,100
850
113
Cohen took Kentucky from the worst SEC program and won the SEC.
Henderson took over and averaged about 34 wins over 8 years, won 40 games once, and made a regional twice.
Just, no.
Actually, CGH averaged 32, not 34.

It took 2 years for JC to build a program from the ashes. His record following the 2-year build:

44 wins, 1st (East)
34 wins, 5th (East
44 wins, 3rd (East)

Then CGH took over the reins of an established top-notch program and...

Henderson:
28 wins, 5th
31 wins, 4th
25 wins, 5th
45 wins, 2nd (This is what is known as an anomaly)
30 wins, 4th
37 wins, 4th
30 wins, 4th
32 wins, 4th

So, in 6 of Henderson's 8 years as HC at UK, he had a worse record and finish than JC's worst year after the rebuild, and he did this after being handed the keys to a program in better shape than they'd been in their entire history.

Henderson was fired for a reason. He was given 8 years to prove he could be the HC of a good SEC program. If you look at some of his decisions this year, I'd say it's pretty easy to see why UK regressed under him.

I've posted this before and will again. I think CGH was laid-back/no pressure this year, and it was what our group of young men needed in the aftermath of the Canni debacle. It was also made possible by the very low expectations we had for this season due to the aforementioned Canni debacle. This will not be the environment going forward.

Additionally, this run we are on is still a year in which we almost didn't even make the SEC touurney, and up until the final series weren't even a lock to get an at-large into the NCAA tourney. That is not good enough for Miss State. Just making somebody else's regional is not good enough for our program, but that's what CGH's track record as an HC suggests would be our norm.

With what we have in facilities, support, tradition, etc, we should pretty much always be in the top 5 of the SEC, top 3 most years. There is nothing in GH's past that suggests he is capable of being the HC to take us there. With our kick-*** brand new ballpark, this is the time to get the next great coach. We will never have a better opportunity with this kind of momentum. Hire the wrong guy and struggle for another 3-5 years, and we've lost some of the luster.

No to CGH. Thank him for stepping up (but realize the guy gets paid $1/4 million to do it, so I expect him to step up). Thank him for allowing this group of ball-players to find themselves, their heart, theri own leadership, etc. But do not make the mistake of glossing over the several deal-breaker bad decisions he made this year...no doubt the same kinds of decisions that lead to UK dropping from 41 wins per year the last 3 years under JC to 32 wins per year under GH.

That kind of thing takes you from hosting regionals and Super Regionals to just hoping you get into somebody else's as an at-large.
 
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Sep 9, 2012
2,803
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I’m sorry but this is a horrible take. I appreciate Gary and what he has done these last couple of months, but you cannot make a long-term decision based off of one team (or one player rather) getting hot at the right time. Henderson is a mediocre SEC head coach and I have nine years of data from his time at UK to back that up- not a couple of weekends of hot baseball. Two regionals in nine seasons and you want him to be our full time head coach for the next 10+ years when he’s already in his late 50s? Ridiculous. If we hired him it would set us back tremendously for years and be a terrible decision. I would be against it even if we somehow won the CWS this year.

Now coach G on the other hand... He needs to stay on staff if there is any possible way of keeping him. Superstar in the making right there, and I think he has much more to do with our success of late than Henderson.
 

maroonmadman

Senior
Nov 7, 2010
2,530
852
113
Right now I wouldn't do a damn thing to mess with this teams chemistry. I'd ride this gravy train until it runs out of track. Cohen needs to wait until our season is over, whenever that may be, and then make a decision.

I'm just glad I don't have to make that decision.
 
Sep 9, 2012
2,803
0
0
Take the emotions and recency bias out of this. We need a coach for the next 10-15 years. Gary is not that guy, as much as we appreciate what he’s done lately. Hiring him because we’ve won a few games late in the season would almost be as bad as hiring Polk again.
 

RutherfordBHayes

Redshirt
Nov 4, 2014
767
14
18
Henderson’s 8 years at UK:
258-199 with an SEC record of 105-134.

That’s a much more logical expectation of what to expect than this last few weeks.
 
Sep 8, 2008
4,100
850
113
Goes way beyond that. Our team has at times looked like the Keystone Cops, making numerous mental errors. Sure, they are young, but they have often made mistakes you wouldn't expect great high-school players to make. That's on coaching. We have not looked well-coached. We have won mostly on heart, determination, grit and sometimes dumb luck. We have gotten outstanding leadership from players, particularly Jake Mangum, and from Coach G.
 

MSUDawgFan86

Redshirt
Aug 14, 2017
1,331
1
0
17 NO! This is the same exact thing LSU fans went through with Orgeron. Don’t let a small sample size and hot streak by the bats lead you into doing something stupid. This is called an outlier for Henderson.
 
Sep 9, 2012
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What’s funny is if Mac misses a 1-2 pitch against FSU, these same people would be cussing Henderson for going 2 and out in the regional. The idea of him being our full time coach is insane. 105-134 SEC record over nine years at a program that was healthy when he took it over. This whole topic is crazy.
 
Sep 9, 2012
2,803
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If he wants to apply for the job and he goes in and IB asks him why he should have it and Hendo sets the NC trophy on his desk and then leans back in his chair and props his feet up...that should take care of it.

And I would say thanks for the hardware, Gary. Now let me help you find a new job to land on your feet.
 

Go Budaw

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
7,321
0
36
Goes way beyond that. Our team has at times looked like the Keystone Cops, making numerous mental errors. Sure, they are young, but they have often made mistakes you wouldn't expect great high-school players to make. That's on coaching. We have not looked well-coached. We have won mostly on heart, determination, grit and sometimes dumb luck. We have gotten outstanding leadership from players, particularly Jake Mangum, and from Coach G.

Jesus Christ. We did all the same things under Cohen. Baserunning mistakes and fielding errors galore for close to a decade. Are you saying we only got by with heart and determination under him, too? And the fact that you put dropped pop-ups and errors in the field on coaching is ridiculous.
 

hatfieldms

All-Conference
Feb 20, 2008
8,472
1,861
113
If we make a run in the CWS I would. Be opposed to Henderson running the show for a couple of years while Gautreau learns Iver him and eventually takes over. Probably isn’t going to happen, but I would be ok with it
 

Go Budaw

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
7,321
0
36
If he wants to apply for the job and he goes in and IB asks him why he should have it and Hendo sets the NC trophy on his desk and then leans back in his chair and props his feet up...that should take care of it.

It really is this simple. He’ll get offered the job if he wins the natty. Otherwise, we should (and will) go another direction.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
54,061
21,825
113
He’s still not my 1st choice. But if he wins 2 more games, I’m ok with keeping him if that’s what Cohen decides. 2 more wins would tie for 3rd best postseason in our history.
 

Go Budaw

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
7,321
0
36
Henderson’s 8 years at UK:
258-199 with an SEC record of 105-134.

That’s a much more logical expectation of what to expect than this last few weeks.

John Cohen’s 13 year body of work in the SEC (including 8 years at a Top 5 SEC program in terms of facilities, history, fan support, etc, and 5 years at the worst program in the SEC):

459-315-2 overall (.591 winning %)
171-215 SEC record (.443 winning %)

Gary Henderson’s 9 year body of work, 8 of which were at the worst SEC program in all of the above factors and 1 of which was at the same Top 5 program as Cohen.

294-222 (.570)
120-149 (.446)

Cohen, who anyone with a brain would consider a very good / borderline elite HC during his time in the SEC, had an overall winning percentage that was .021 higher than Henderson and an SEC winning % that was .003 less than Henderson. Are there extenuating factors that make Cohen’s record lower than it should be for a supposed elite coach? Sure there were, namely his first 2 years at each program where he had some rebuilding. But his 8 years spent at a program with a **** ton of resources considerably cancels that out compared to a guy who spent 85% of his time at the league’s worst program.

Point is, there is not a universe that exists where John Cohen is a great / elite coach while at the same time Henderson is a not good / terrible coach. Henderson is at least a pretty good head coach, even though I and many others don’t think he is the long term answer for our program. So people need to quit shitting on him and at least give him some damn credit for the run we have been on.
 
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G-Dawg

Freshman
Sep 6, 2012
1,183
76
48
If you think Gary Henderson's bad managerial moves are confined to just his use of Cole Gordon then I question whether you've been watching all year long. Our baserunning is atrocious. Our fielding is 11th in the SEC. We have caught fire, but don't let that fool you...we are NOT a very sound fundamental baseball team.
 

Go Budaw

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
7,321
0
36
If you think Gary Henderson's bad managerial moves are confined to just his use of Cole Gordon then I question whether you've been watching all year long. Our baserunning is atrocious. Our fielding is 11th in the SEC. We have caught fire, but don't let that fool you...we are NOT a very sound fundamental baseball team.

50% positions on the field (LF, 1B, 3B, C) have been occupied by freshmen for a good portion of the season. Freshmen tend to make a lot of errors. It happens. But even regardless of all that, it is not EVER the job of an SEC head baseball coach to teach a player how to routinely catch, field, and throw a damn baseball correctly. That is little league / junior high stuff. The game is so much deeper at the point of D1 / SEC that the only fielding instruction / drills given involve how to make the great play. Charging the slow rollers and bare handing for the quick throw to first. Footwork required to move into the hole more quickly to cut off a base hit.

If you think its something Gary Henderson did that made Luke Alexander throw a ball 10 feet over the head of the first baseman (on a throw he’s probably made no less than 5,000 times in his baseball career) or made Skelton / Jordan drop easily catchable pop flies, then I don’t really know what to tell you.
 

Len2003

Redshirt
May 13, 2018
1,103
0
36
If we have to keep Henderson to keep Gautreau, I say it’s a deal you have to make. Give Hendo a 3 year contract and let him groom Gautreau into our head coach. Gautreau can take care of the recruiting. Put out the money to hire a really good pitching coach. Whatever they have bottled right now, it works. Don’t mess with the chemistry they have. The pitching needs more consistency, but that can be fixed.

The more I think about it, I wonder if no one wants to work for Cohen because he’s insisting on keeping Gautreau as part of the deal. A seasoned coach will not want a meddlesome, overbearing AD. Didn’t he tell Cannizaro to keep Hendo on staff?
 

BiscuitEater

Redshirt
Aug 29, 2009
4,178
0
36
I understand where you are coming from but you have to understand this is an EMOTIONAL decision you are making. We need to find a leader for the next 15 years. What Henderson has done is to be applauded and if we make it to Omaha I will be surprised if he doesn’t get Coach of the Year, but he simply isn’t the future of MSU Baseball.

Same kind of EMOTIONAL type 'call' was made when LSU hired O and OM hired Fatt Luke. Think both fanbases are going to be holding their collective breath this coming year 'cause both could go 'off a cliff' in a hurry.
 

Joe Mayo

Redshirt
Apr 25, 2016
190
0
0
Yea no thanks. I don't want a coach that thought it was a good idea to start Tanner Poole over Mac in RF 19 games this year.

Mac hit 295 in SEC last year and and Poole started over him 19 times lol and I don't care if Mac was struggling, you neverrrr start Poole over him.

That's not my real reason of not wanting him but I giggle when I think about that.