In Bury's 11 Years Coaching The Boys...............

[kired]

I honestly didn't realize how poor most of the SEC has been over the last 10 years. Other than Florida making in 3 times, only LSU has been to the final four from 99-08. hmmm.... I've got a horrible memory - that kind of stuff never jumps out until I see it on paper.

 

[megadawgmaniac]

<span style="font-weight: bold;">Coach34 wrote:</span>
I love how people like to throw out this "100 years of basketball" ********.

Florida before Donovan- 4 trips to the NCAA Tourney in their entire history
</p>

AA - oh yeah, that's why

 

[robertd38606]

<h4>During Stansbury's tenure as coach</h4> _________________________________________________ <div class="messagebody"> 1) Alabama has been to the Elite Eight.
2) Auburn has been to the Sweet Sixteen.
3) Georgia has been to the Sweet Sixteen.
4) Ole Miss has been to the Sweet Sixteen.
5) Tennessee has been to the Elite Eight.
6) Vanderbilt has been to the Sweet Sixteen.
7) Florida has been to the Final Four (and won the National Championship twice).
8) Kentucky has been to the Elite Eight.
9) LSU has been to the Final Four

South Carolina, Arkansas, and Bury are the only teams to never make it past the 2nd round.

So disappointing. Just stating the facts!! </div>

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

and your reply says a lot...</p>

You would trade all of the success we have had under stansbury for one FF and a bunch of crappy years, like FLA had with Kruger</p>

No need to reply. You have already said you would do that.</p>

How in the hell can you compare Stansbury with Horn? There is no comparison there. You cannot compare a 10+ year coach with a first year coach. Thats just moronic. Thats like comparing Tubby Smith's first year at UK and saying that he was better than any other coach in NCAA history. It could be true because you have no other experience to compare it to. who is the moron??? Perhaps you are right. It may be me for actually giving a **** of what you say.</p>

Answer the million dollar question for us all... exactly what did Stans do to your mother that rainy night...</p>

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

Exactly how much better has Horn done than Stansbury in his first year(which would actually be an accurate comparison, numbnuts)...</p> <table class="wikitable"> <tbody> <tr> <td>2008-2009</td> <td>Darrin Horn</td> <td>20-8</td> <td>9-6</td> <td></td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
<table class="wikitable" style="FONT-SIZE: 95%"> <tbody> <tr> <td>1998-1999</td> <td>Mississippi State</td> <td>20-13</td> <td>8-8</td> <td>T-3rd (West)</td> <td>NIT 1st Round</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
now... lets compare the SEC in 1998 versus the SEC in 2008...

1998 AP final rankings:
#4 Auburn
#8 Kentucky
#17 Arkansas
#20 Tennessee
#23 Florida

UK, FLA & AU all made the sweet 16... do I even have to prove that the SEC was far better in 1998-1999 than in 2008-2009??? Because I would have sworn that you have been on here non-stop saying how Stans should be domintating this year due to how the SEC sucks. Really, just go away

Edited to say: USC is 2nd in the East

 

[mstateglfr]

HD6 wrote:has been to NCAA tournament 10 times in 100 plus years of basketball, 6 times with Rick Stansbury as head coach.

I understand the greater point you are trying to beat into their heads, but 100 plus years of basketball? What does that have to do with the NCAAT? If the NCAA tournament wasnt around, then how could they be in it?

Lets take it from 1939, seeing as how thats when the NCAAT started. 70 years. MSU has been to the NCAA 10 times in 70 years.

Your greater point of 'we arent historically good enough to expect much at all from our teams' is still understood, and i feel your point can still valid with 10 times in 70 years.

Personally, i do think MSU can do better in the NCAA tournament than it has in the last decade, considering the talent we have had. I dont think Stans should be fired, i just think he needs to do his damn job better come March.
But i do not agree with your view that poor old MSU has sucked *** for decades upon decades, so we shouldnt have higher expectations. Call me a sheep when it comes to basketball, i guess.

 

[MSUCostanza]

is we went once from 1939-1990 (52 seasons), in 1963. Could've gone in '59, '61 and '62.

Since Rick Stansbury joined the staff in 1990, we've been to 8 tourneys ('91, '95, '96, '02, '03, '04, '05, '08), won 2 SEC titles, 2 SEC Tournament titles, and 6 West titles, in addition to the Final Four. Few programs in the league can match or surpass that level of success. Kentucky and Florida are it, actually, and Florida has done it all this decade. Other schools have had one or two really good years here and there, but sustained success? No.

Coach says Stans is only responsible for 5 trips. But I've got news for him - if you're on the staff, you're just as responsible as anyone for assembling the team and helping coach the team. Stans has been the head guy for 5 trips, but should of course (to anyone with half a brain) be credited with helping us make the other 3.

If we had a coach in football that had us as the 3rd most successful SEC program in a 20 year span, that man would have half the buildings, the stadium, 4 or 5 streets, and maybe the town named after him, plus a 30 foot tall statue somewhere. Our basketball coach does it, and has a group of people that **** on his every accomplishment. And in an ironic twist, we have a football coach who finished with a .500 record, went to postseason less than half the time he was here, got us on probation twice, and put forth some of the crappiest football teams I have ever witnessed in person and included some of the shadiest, laziest pieces of **** human beings to ever walk the Earth, and is still revered by some, including Coach34.

 

[Todd4State]

is that when we go to the NCAA Tournament we get seeded something like 8th or 9th it seems- I'm sure that hasn't always been the case, but I don't feel like looking it up right now. Anyway, when that happens you are normally going to play the 1 seed in the Big Dance. That's why we end up with Duke or Memphis in the second round.

Now, you can say that's all RPI and we should schedule tougher teams, but in theory that would be a wash at best because we would likely lose to those teams and probably have our confidence shot going into SEC play and possibly not even make the Big Dance at all or that our seeding would have been better had we not lost to some small school like South Alabama, but that happens sometimes to pretty much everyone.

Part of the selection process is political. That's part of the reason why you see people like UK and Indiana go in year after year even if they have a lackluster season. I think that's where our 10 appearances the last 100 years comes in. Let's say that we win the West, well, the committee may say that we were the third best team in the SEC, but that the "conference was down", so they give us a crappy seed. One of the ways to change that is to keep going year after year. Stansbury has done that- he either has us in the Big Dance or at least on the bubble and going to the NIT, and usually when we're on the bubble it's a young team like we have this year. That's the difference between Stansbury and Gottfried, Brady, or even a Barnes. He has us consistently winning every year rather than come in, get everyone excited, build up a team, have a good run, and then collect a paycheck until the wheels come off completely, rinse and repeat.

 

[mstateglfr]

is that when we go to the NCAA Tournament we get seeded something like 8th or 9th it seems- I'm sure that hasn't always been the case, but I don't feel like looking it up right now.

Part of the selection process is political. That's part of the reason why you see people like UK and Indiana go in year after year even if they have a lackluster season. I think that's where our 10 appearances the last 100 years comes in. Let's say that we win the West, well, the committee may say that we were the third best team in the SEC, but that the "conference was down", so they give us a crappy seed. One of the ways to change that is to keep going year after year.

'02 - 3seed(lost in the 2nd round to a 6 seed)
'03 - 5seed(lost in the 1st round to a 12seed)
'04 - 2seed(lost in the 2nd round to a 7seed)
'05 - 9seed(lost in the 2nd round to a 1seed)
'08 - 8seed(lost in the 2nd round to a 1seed)

Ok, so here are our 5 seedings. Look at them and tell me what exactly is so unjust about the seeding? 03, 04, and 05...WE WERE THE HIGHER SEED WHEN WE LOST.
And in 05 and 08, we got exactly what we deserved. We were good but not great, and were seeded right in the middle...which fits.

Really, what seeding wasnt deserved?

And we dont go 'year after year'. Currently, we go year after the year after...or something like that. We go every other year(soon to no longer be true).

 

[Coach34]

what does it say about your program if you have to type this:

"Now, you can say that's all RPI and we should schedule tougher teams, but in theory that would be a wash at best because we would likely lose to those teams and probably have our confidence shot going into SEC play and possibly not even make the Big Dance at all"

Exactly how good is your program if this is the case?

 

[Coach34]

You need to compare it to baseball because that would be a much better comparision. Baseball and basketball are two sports that, as a smaller school, dont leave us disadvantaged. So, we really need to start having the same expectations in those two sports.

Stansbury has elevated our program according to you. He has us as one of the top programs in the SEC according to you. So the NCAA Tourney should always be our expectation- and when we start missing it on a regular basis, we arent meeting expectations.

This has been my whole problem with you and others the 5 years on this board. In one sentence you want to scream how much he wins and how much SEC success we have- but when we talk about playing a national schedule against good teams or mention lack of postseason success, suddenly we are "lowly Miss State with no basketball history"....

Either we are a top program or we are not....which is it?</p>

 

[HD6]

We aren't a top program. We're a good program, but I would list about 30 programs better than ours without batting an eyelash.

To further my new expectation level with a new coach, just getting to the dance won't be enough either. This new John Wooden better put our *** consistently in the Sweet Sixteen or better.

 

[HD6]

the lengths people will go to, and the facts they will straight make up to feel better about bashing Stansbury. I can't believe I have to throw Extreme on the Coach/Fish/OEM trash heap. Maybe next time, you'll ask me to do the research.

 

[rebfan04]

has been to NCAA tournament 10 times in 100 plus years of basketball, 6 times with Rick Stansbury as head coach. You think we should go every year. What is your logic behind that? What historical evidence you have that Mississippi State could become a school that goes to the tournament every year without question?

.

This argument has been had ad nauseum on NAFOOM regarding football.

The argument against you is that, just because we have sucked for 100 years, you believe that we should continue to suck or be average? Are your aspirations that low? Is the goal to be average "just because we have been average?" When does the expectation level to win championships start? Never, because we never have had one?

I realize that, over the last 6 years, Stansbury has the winningest program in the West (by the numbers, not championships). I'm simply presenting what the other side of the argument is, whether I agree with it or not.

 

[HD6]

I just feel that Stansbury is maximizing the potential here. We are never going to be Duke, North Carolina, UCLA, or any other program you equate with basketball success. We are consistently in the mix for the SEC West title, usually in the mix for the SEC title, and usually in the mix for the NCAA tournament. That's about all we can ask for, I feel.

 

[HD6]

than 6 tournament appearances in 10 years for a program with 10 appearances all-time? What color is the sky in your world?

 

[HD6]

for the second time in the past few weeks, Florida didn't fire Lon Kruger.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

that may be why Coach always disappears when his "facts" are shot

 

[anon1754664043]

Before 1975 you had to win your conference to go to the NCAA Tournament, then they started adding a few other teams.
Half of our conference makes the tournament these days, so Stansbury should have more trips than anybody.

 

[HD6]

What was your point aGAIN?

 

[Coach34]

In Stansbury's tenure, we dont have more trips than Bama, Florida, Kentucky...and thats just naming 3..i'm willing to bet there are more that have as many or more trips than us the last 11 years
</p>
**Edited to add Tourney appearances**

Kentucky- 10
Fla- 9
Tenn- 6 (about to be 7)
Upig- 6
Bammer- 5
State-5
LSU- 4 (about to be 5)
Auburn- 3 (good chance at 4)
Georgia- 3
Vandy-3
Mississippi- 3
SC- 1 (bout to be 2)

We are middle of the pack- just like many of us have been saying

 

[HD6]

Kentucky-2 coaches
Florida-1 Coach
Tennessee-3 coaches
Arkansas-3 coaches
Alabama-2 coaches
LSU-3 coaches
Auburn-2 coaches
Georgia-4 coaches
Vanderbilt-2 coaches
Ole Miss-2 coaches
South Carolina-3 coaches

So outside of Tubby Smith and Billy Donovan, Stansbury has more appearances than anyone. Pretty good company. I'd count him as tied with Gottfried, but I'd prefer to deal only in coaches that have a job.

 

[Coach34]

our expectations arent the same as some of these schools

UPig fired Heath in a year they made the NCAA Tourney- we would never, ever do that
Bama fired Gottfried who has as many tourney appearances as Stansbury, an Elite 8, an SEC title, and only 7 fewer SEC wins starting 2009.
Kentucky is well, Kentucky

and on and on and on....

Come Sunday we will be in a 3 way tie for 5th place in Tourney appearances under Stansbury- and because of our 100 year history, thats all we can ask for huh?</p>

 

[HD6]

Arkansas fired Heath, and they finished last this year. That's what happens when you do stupid **** like that. And Kentucky is Kentucky, well no **** retard, that's what I've been saying for months. We have no reason to expect tournament appearances the way they do. You are the one arguing that we should be in the tournament every year.</p>

</p>

 

[KurtRambis4]

wait till horn has his players in there (top 3 scorers are upperclassmen who previous staff brought in, obviously) before we start anointing him as one of the top coaches in the sec

 

[Coach34]

"You are the one arguing that we should be in the tournament every year."

But 3 out of 5 isnt unreasonable...and 1 time in 4 years damn sure aint cutting it

 

[BriantheDawg]

We are like the 10th best team in each sport in the SEC. In baseball, LSU and us are considered to be the top 2 baseball schools. Historically speaking that is.

All of our recent success can directly or indirectly be attributed to one Rick Stansbury. But you'd like to get rid of him yesterday. So fukcing brilliant.

 

[RT23]

Croom was responsible for 10 bowl games and 2 national titles at Bama, and a Super Bowl trip with San Diego. </p>

 

[squirldawg]

Arkansas should be a top 3 Basketball program in the SEC considering their tradition and facilities. The fact that Stansbury has owned the West and most of the East over schools with better resources and facilities is pretty damn good.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

I had no idea how awesome Stansbury really is... Since, after learning from you, we only look at what a coach does in his first year... That sonofabitch stansbury should be inducted into the HOF already... Mind you, this is only calculated based upon Coach 34's theory of
"You moron, i'm not comparing Stansbury to Odom- i'm comparing him to what Horn has done is nhis 1st season. Horn has come in and provided some new blood and energy to stale program"

Stansbury
</p> <table class="wikitable" style="FONT-SIZE: 95%"> <tbody> <tr> <td>1998-1999</td> <td>Mississippi State</td> <td>20-13</td> <td>8-8</td> <td>T-3rd (West)</td> <td>NIT 1st Round</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
Donovan
<table class="wikitable" style="FONT-SIZE: 95%"> <tbody> <tr> <td>1996-1997</td> <td>Florida</td> <td>13-17</td> <td>5-11</td> <td>5 - East</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>Duke
Coach K
<table class="wikitable"> <tbody> <tr> <td>1980-81</td> <td>17-13</td> <td>6-8</td> <td>Neither</td> <td></td> <td>NIT</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
North Carolina
Dean Smith
<table class="wikitable"> <tbody> <tr> <td>1961-62</td> <td>8-9</td> <td>7-7</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
Indiana
Bobby Knight
<table class="wikitable" style="FONT-SIZE: 95%"> <tbody> <tr> <td>1971-1972</td> <td>Indiana</td> <td>17-8</td> <td>9-5</td> <td>T-3rd</td> <td>NIT First Round</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

 

[Todd4State]

which is an above average program.

The thing you don't seem to understand is that isn't going to change unless we hire a Hall of Fame caliber coach- and one that is not washed up looking for a paycheck.

I think the best way to attract a coach like that is to keep going to the postseason year after year like we are doing.

 

[Todd4State]

the year we had to play Texas in Dallas? That was pretty unjust.

And I was talking about going to the postseason every year, including NIT. Not just NCAA Tourney.

 

[mstateglfr]

the year we had to play Texas in Dallas? That was pretty unjust.

And I was talking about going to the postseason every year, including NIT. Not just NCAA Tourney.

Yep, we played UT in Dallas. Where would you have liked us to play? What other site should we have gotten, where the 2 seed in that bracket would also make sense to play in Dallas?
You ***** about it, so offer up the realistic better circumstance.

As for the postseason, the NIT blows. Nobody should ever start out the year with the desire to play in the NIT. I would love to see MSU make the NIT and keep playing after the SECT...but lets not try and sell the NIT as some great accomplishment. And by your relaxed view, the CBI and collegewhatever.com tournaments also count as 'postseason'. The CBI is on a channel that like 3% of the country gets, and im really not even sure if the other one is going to be televised. But they are postseason tournaments, so lets count em to make our view look better. what a joke.

 

[thatlonghairedguy]

but look how many banners we hang before and after Rick took over as basketball coach. enough said, jack.

 

[Todd4State]

a site that year? Again, I'm not looking any of this up, so I may very well be wrong, but I seem to remember a lot of people bitching about it at that time.

It would seem to be a lot more fair to me that a higher seed plays a game that is not essentially a road game for them.

And my point about the NIT is this. Again look at our history. Before Stansbury, we would rarely even make it to the NIT, much less the Big Dance Now, since he has taken over, we're consistently going to at least the NIT when he has down years. That means that we are winning at least 18 or so a year, at worst, and are at least on the bubble of going to the Big Dance at worst. Circa 1990, you couldn't say that. Even during Richard Williams heyday, we had to pretty much win the SEC to go to the Dance. That's not the case anymore.

 

[wpnetdawg]

I also think it funny that the same people who act like Roberts fell into Stansbury's lap don't ever mention how Dontae Jones came to State. Both came to State under unusual circumstances, but when one comes under Stansbury, it was an accident and when the other comes under Williams, it was coaching genius.

Out of KB34's many retarded arguments, this one may be the most retarded.

 

[wpnetdawg]

It just seems to me that there are more substandard coaches making runs in the NCAA tournament than making runs towards division and conferences titles. Further, it seems that there are far more substandard coaches that make a run (or perhaps two) than make repeated runs towards division and conference titles.

Mathematically (and logically too), this indicates that perhaps one is easier to do than the other. It also indicates that one is more random than the other.

 

[MemphisMaroonClubDog]

I should not say I am surprised... You have made yourself a name for getting baffled by the truth and then running out of the argument...</p>

 

[Coach34]

You dont think there is a difference in recruiting a juco player that had to take a couple of extra courses and a damn player from another 4 yr school that only came available because one of his teammates killed another teammate? Really?

 

[Coach34]

but look how many banners we hang before and after Rick took over as basketball coach. enough said, jack.

until the SEC split in what 1992? You had to win the SEC to get one. So Stansbury has the same number as Williams does on that note. 1 SEC title, 1 Tourney title...He does lead in NCAA Tourneys, but with one trip in the last 4 years, those are becoming a thing of the past too it appears