Think it’s getting worse but not all the coaches fault.. society/expectations are different. Seemingly parents more involved and politics more involved. Less protection from admin etc. just my guess. Roanoke has some really well coached teams though. So maybe I’m wrong. maybe just same ish different day. What do you think?
In total, is high school coaching getting better or worse?
- Thread starter CrushBlock
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I would say it is some of both better and worse. But what is the definition of "better"? Wins? Consistency? Preparing young men to succeed in life? Long tenure? I think you have fewer guys who want to put up with the politics, parents, transfers, demands on family time, etc. so you naturally have fewer getting into coaching in the first place and you also have some who say "enough" and leave the coaching ranks. But on the flip side of that most of the ones who put up with all that coach because they love the game and love working with the kids.
Then there is this thought: perhaps there were more coaches around in past decades (and therefore more of a chance there were higher numbers of "better" coaches just from the larger available talent pool) but there were also probably more who coached in ways that are no longer acceptable. It was easier to use coaching methods you preferred or felt were OK as long as you got results or had the support of a few key individuals in the school or community. That coaching "style" is not tolerated as much now.
Then there is this thought: perhaps there were more coaches around in past decades (and therefore more of a chance there were higher numbers of "better" coaches just from the larger available talent pool) but there were also probably more who coached in ways that are no longer acceptable. It was easier to use coaching methods you preferred or felt were OK as long as you got results or had the support of a few key individuals in the school or community. That coaching "style" is not tolerated as much now.
I shouldn’t have said coaching is getting worse. Late night thoughts. I don’t know this for sure, just a lot of new age strategy that I don’t prefer being coached. I see it as a trend. But ultimately this is a preference thing and no reason for me to disparage coaches.
I use the term backback coaches. What you have now are coaches that are great on instagram and social media but can not draw up a defense to defend the triple option.
Elite Training Programs and ELITER 7 0n 7 teams are making kides more eliter and when dumb HS coaches don't run the right offense to show case the elite talent that has been developed and documented on INSTATWEET parents and uncles and 2nd cousins get pissed when on Bridgewater and Shenandoah "OFFERS" roll in. That dude with the swag and good hair said my boy was ELITE in APRIL! Dumb HS coach made him not ELITEREST!
In general I do think think coaching is getting worse but it's mainly because there are less and less willing individuals to take the job. Plenty of really good coordinators and high level assistants who don't want the headache of all of the off-field stuff.
Think about your coaches in HS. I graduated in ‘93 and there wasn’t a bunch of good “coaches” in terms of knowledge and scheme. Just good men who loved football and believed in the virtues of hard work and teamwork. I was woefully unprepared for college football and learned the specifics of the game when Mike Clark took over Bridgewater. The knowledge that coaches have now is far superior to back in the day BUT the “soft skills” are lost on a bunch of the younger coaches. They have knowledge of scheme and use collegiate and pro terms when installing things but fail to connect with the humans. Thats why I respect the Salems and Highland Springs of the state. I have talked to some of the most successful coaches in VA history and they are done with the parents. The job is 365 and these guys are underpaid and under appreciated (see King George).
Good point bridgewater. The question is: does pro level/ college level strategy make sense and transfer to the high school level well
Large Swiss Army knife playbooks instead of actually having their teams know 2-3 concepts exceptionally well and execute.
You mention these soft skills, a lot of that has to do with positional skills, as well. Salem had a ton of position coaches back in the day who may not have been X’s and O’s guys, but knew very specifically how to teach a d tackle how to “shock, gap, trap” no matter what their size or strength was. They were artisans at dialing in technique and football IQ of their respective positions.
Same techniques don’t work for all guys the same. You may have to adjust aiming points and smart splits if you have a 155lbs guard compared to a year prior where you had a 250lbs guard.
College has become so homogeneous from a playbook perspective because they know they can recruit and typically fill their offensive line with five 6’4”+, 300lbs+ player all across the front 5 and can make sure their skill positions all run 4.5 40s. The technical strategies to be successful with this are completely different than the far more random group of kids you’re going to get at the high school level. The blocking rules up front for this kind of personnel may not for high school personnel etc.
Getting to the point this is late night thoughts once again. Don’t want to be deragatory. But my feelings are consistent with maroon dudes position. I hate the “7 on 7”ification of football and feel like it’s becoming a sport that I recognize less and less. Which is why I still watch Salem every week and barely watch Saturday or Sunday football.
As far as college goes, D3/D2/ NAIA are more among what I like to watch and what I remember feeling when I used to watch tech. Watched SUNY courtland vs north central a couple years ago in stagg bowl and those boys were pounding the rock, going to the whistle, and hitting hard as all get out. It’s almost like there are different versions of our beloved sport that are fracturing.
Large Swiss Army knife playbooks instead of actually having their teams know 2-3 concepts exceptionally well and execute.
You mention these soft skills, a lot of that has to do with positional skills, as well. Salem had a ton of position coaches back in the day who may not have been X’s and O’s guys, but knew very specifically how to teach a d tackle how to “shock, gap, trap” no matter what their size or strength was. They were artisans at dialing in technique and football IQ of their respective positions.
Same techniques don’t work for all guys the same. You may have to adjust aiming points and smart splits if you have a 155lbs guard compared to a year prior where you had a 250lbs guard.
College has become so homogeneous from a playbook perspective because they know they can recruit and typically fill their offensive line with five 6’4”+, 300lbs+ player all across the front 5 and can make sure their skill positions all run 4.5 40s. The technical strategies to be successful with this are completely different than the far more random group of kids you’re going to get at the high school level. The blocking rules up front for this kind of personnel may not for high school personnel etc.
Getting to the point this is late night thoughts once again. Don’t want to be deragatory. But my feelings are consistent with maroon dudes position. I hate the “7 on 7”ification of football and feel like it’s becoming a sport that I recognize less and less. Which is why I still watch Salem every week and barely watch Saturday or Sunday football.
As far as college goes, D3/D2/ NAIA are more among what I like to watch and what I remember feeling when I used to watch tech. Watched SUNY courtland vs north central a couple years ago in stagg bowl and those boys were pounding the rock, going to the whistle, and hitting hard as all get out. It’s almost like there are different versions of our beloved sport that are fracturing.
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Well said. I don’t miss the old days because honestly a lot of what coaches asked players to do was stupid from a safety POV but the fundamentals of the game were emphasized over and over and over. Now it’s very concept driven and schematic. These schemes are great IF you have the athletes to run them but usually the better you are the simpler you can be. That said there are some programs around the state, Lake Taylor, Salem, Highland Springs, Graham, Loudoun County etc that still have that old school feel. They can block, tackle, kick, etc. and win consistently because they play fundamentally sound football.
HS Coaching is the same as it was 50 years ago. No better, no worse. There are good ones and bad ones. Technology, nutrition, fitness, knowledge about technique is way better obviously, and some coaches are all over it and some not.
At the end of the day, even compared to 1950, you still have the chess game on the field. The x's and o's, the scheming, the thinking, your offense versus their defense and play calling and formations and pass routes, etc. This is what separates the good ones or great ones from the bad ones. And in this area, it hasn't changed. Some were elite and ahead of the game in 1950 and some were not. Same thing today.
At the end of the day, even compared to 1950, you still have the chess game on the field. The x's and o's, the scheming, the thinking, your offense versus their defense and play calling and formations and pass routes, etc. This is what separates the good ones or great ones from the bad ones. And in this area, it hasn't changed. Some were elite and ahead of the game in 1950 and some were not. Same thing today.
1940 was 86 years ago and 1976 was 50 years ago. The year is irrelevant. Coaching (with the available technology and knowledge for its time) is roughly the same. There was always one guy in an area out scheming opponents in 1940 with similar talent. There was always the one guy who had superior talent in 1940, but struggled to win. Same thing today.
I have coached since 1995 and 3 years of that was in Pennsylvania and the other 27 were in North Carolina. So as far as Virginia goes I am an outsider looking in but I will guess what is happening in NC is happening in VA. When I was young the older coaches pretty much made sure you did your job. You listened , you learned, you went to clinics. I have probably a novels worth of plays written on bar napkins on how to defend the triple option. I stopped seeing that in NC. Also what you have or at least in NC is a brain drain of talent leaving the coaching profession. Older coaches around my age are getting out and what is replacing them ( I feel) are not as ready to run programs as coaches were before. Also some coaches are getting out of the teaching profession and that causes shortages in talent. Now I will admit there is a lot that has changed since 2009 when I first became a head coach. So I am not throwing these young guys under the bus there are a few more dynamics that coaches deal with now than then. Now if/when I get back into coaching in the RVA perhaps I will learn more about the area and what VA is all about. Could be fun and perhaps my attitudes will change
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Everytime old dudes start talking about the younger generation....
Socrates-
Socrates-
Our youth love luxury. They have bad manners and despise authority. They show disrespect for their elders and love to chatter instead of exercise. Young people are now tyrants, not the servants of their household. They no longer rise when their elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up food and terrorize their teachers.”
I think the crux of this post was to compare the old dudes to the young ones. And by no means did I trash younger coaches. The climate is what it is and the one thing in coaching and teaching that is the constant is change. The one coach that I look to is Tommy Knotts he is an old dude still winning in the modern age look him up and listen to what he says
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They Were I was coaching at Mt Tabor then in Winston Salem. Those teams he had were just unbeatable. So much talent and his coaching was top shelf. I know many coaches from NC, SC, PA, MD , ILL and knotts is the best HS coach I have ever met