Insurance Companies

[horshack.sixpack]

One should have a separate policy for a SxS but it is covered by the HO policy, usually for a couple grand. Unfortunately if you ever file a HO claim, you’re screwed, especially in MS where carriers are trying to stop writing completely.
Insurance is about to explode. The NC floods are bad but the sheer amount of money it will take to rebuild those houses in LA will be unfathomable. Something will have to happen (politically) because premiums will increase significantly over the next 24 months.

A very un American answer in this consumer culture might be that we consider living a little more humbly. I as guilty as anyone as I’m unlikely to surrender my house unless I literally can’t afford it, but I could for sure make do with less. Admittedly, I don’t know how you rebuild affordable in CA even if that was your goal…

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Watch local TV and you'll see why insurance is a **** show. 3 out of 5 commercials are from personal injury attorneys who do nothing but defraud insurance with BS settlements. It is not getting better but worse. Some kind of reform on the legal profession fraud would go a long way to reducing insurance costs and easing the process of getting a legitimate payment

I don’t have an affinity for litigation, or attorneys but I imagine that the threat of lawsuit is a driving force behind insurance companies having any onus to offer payments in some cases.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

You're right but 90% of the time, these "attorneys" are defrauding their not-so-sophisticated clients and not insurance companies or the rest of us. They make a big show about GETTING RESULTS FOR YOU, which is actually the same result a person would've gotten anyhow. They then take 1/3 to 1/2 of that payment/settlement for their troubles. To be clear, there absolutely are times a person needs to hire a (real) lawyer against an insurance company.

I'm all for reform here, but it's not going to save most of us a penny.

I hate ambulance chasing lawyers, but firmly believe insurance companies would pay zero claims without them.

 

[dorndawg]

I hate ambulance chasing lawyers, but firmly believe insurance companies would pay zero claims without them.

You're probably not wrong.

 

[MStateDawg]

A little FYI about property & casualty insurance: Insurance companies also buy insurance. It’s called Reinsurance. Those Reinsurance rates are sky rocketing due to large scale disasters like hurricanes in Florida and wildfires in California. Thus even if you don’t live in one of those states, your premiums are going to increase because of them.

 

[PrimeDog]

I was a 30+ year customer of SF dating back to when a close family friend was our original agent.

I’ve never had an at fault accident but our teenagers had a couple of accidents in their first year and a half of driving including one that spun out on the interstate avoiding a drunk driver. According to SF, since they didn’t allow the drunk to plow into them, they were at fault.

We got a notice that our entire family was being dropped and they would allow us to appeal to underwriting ONLY because I was “such a loyal customer”.

We switched to another carrier and are paying much less. Good riddance to that criminal company.

 

[johnson86-1]

Watch local TV and you'll see why insurance is a **** show. 3 out of 5 commercials are from personal injury attorneys who do nothing but defraud insurance with BS settlements. It is not getting better but worse. Some kind of reform on the legal profession fraud would go a long way to reducing insurance costs and easing the process of getting a legitimate payment

The problem is not really the legal profession but the juries and judges. Certainly the plaintiffs bar doesn't help, but they bring frivolous suits because judges and juries reward that behavior. If you have a voting populace that is going to give you bad juries and bad judges, it's hard to fix.

 

[johnson86-1]

On the surface, not knowing details, I’m surprised the homeowner policy paid out at all.

I’d think either a separate policy on toys like boats and sxs’s, or your sisters auto insurance would be on the hook for that.

It was probably paid under the liability portion of the policy. And it's not super surprising to me that it got their policy cancelled. I can see thinking that a homeowner that doesn't carry liability insurance for "toys" like SxS's and ATV's puts them at greater risk of lawsuits against the homeowner's policy.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

It was probably paid under the liability portion of the policy. And it's not super surprising to me that it got their policy cancelled. I can see thinking that a homeowner that doesn't carry liability insurance for "toys" like SxS's and ATV's puts them at greater risk of lawsuits against the homeowner's policy.

Ah, makes sense.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

I'll be over here waiting on the good news anytime ya'll have some.

The day SPS mods can ban based on IP instead of username, I’ll be the first to ring church bells in your direction.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

A little FYI about property & casualty insurance: Insurance companies also buy insurance. It’s called Reinsurance. Those Reinsurance rates are sky rocketing due to large scale disasters like hurricanes in Florida and wildfires in California. Thus even if you don’t live in one of those states, your premiums are going to increase because of them.

Do some research about the number of Reinsurance companies in the United States & their ownership. You might end up thinking that our entire economic system is as corrupt as HE!!. It is a damned racket & they will not lose money long-term.

There are no good guys in the Plaintiff Attorneys vs. Insurance Companies & Reinsurers.

 

[Ozarkdawg]

From personal experience and some of our neighbors. Alfa and Farm Bureau have been good to pay what they should in a timely manner.

Been impatiently waiting on Liberty Mutual to pay on a claim. Their insured driver cause a wreck I was in. I did not say accident and never will, it was a wreck. But I am considering calling one of those ambulance chasing layers to get it finalized if they don't get the lead out.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

The day SPS mods can ban based on IP instead of username, I’ll be the first to ring church bells in your direction.

That isn’t a thing anymore unfortunately.

 

[atomic dawg]

I don't understand how State Farm stays in business. They've never been competitive when I've seen quotes, and it's a coin flip on whether they will pay a valid claim or make you get an attorney involved.

They weren't always that way. 20 years ago I had a pretty good fender bender and had the adjustor meet me at work to discuss the claim. He was looking over my truck practically trying to help me find things so he could write me a larger check. Fast forward to 2 years ago when I had a limb go through my roof and the adjustor they sent was looking for reasons not to take the claim and he initially denied it... despite not having any recent claims. After some back and forth with the local agent they agreed to pay but it took some arm twisting. State Farm used to be slightly higher on their premiums but gave the best service and payouts. The last few years they've gotten really stingy and Ive considered moving everything elsewhere but just havent pulled the trigger yet.

 

[patdog]

The insurance market is tough these days. My advice, get USAA if you qualify for it. Had my first homeowner claim in 30 years last year, their adjuster worked with my roofer and the claim was settled easily and fairly. And they didn't drop me. Even still, if I have another claim less than $5,000 or so more than my $5,000 deductible, I'm just paying it and not filing.

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

I was a 30+ year customer of SF dating back to when a close family friend was our original agent.

I’ve never had an at fault accident but our teenagers had a couple of accidents in their first year and a half of driving including one that spun out on the interstate avoiding a drunk driver. According to SF, since they didn’t allow the drunk to plow into them, they were at fault.

We got a notice that our entire family was being dropped and they would allow us to appeal to underwriting ONLY because I was “such a loyal customer”.

We switched to another carrier and are paying much less. Good riddance to that criminal company.

I had something similar. My wife had to swerve out of the way and hit a tree. Since noone else got hit, she was at fault even though the other drivers was in her lane. We had Progressive at the time.

I had already switched from SF because they denied my roof claim. I wasn't going to get a lawyer involved, but told my agent I could either sit there and take it or vote with my wallet and I'm voting with my wallet.

Never going back to SF. Ever.

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

It Trump really has balls, he'll go after Insurance and Pharma. Those two are the scourge of the earth, along with lawyers.

Do bone spurs count?

 

[mstateglfr]

The problem is not really the legal profession but the juries and judges. Certainly the plaintiffs bar doesn't help, but they bring frivolous suits because judges and juries reward that behavior. If you have a voting populace that is going to give you bad juries and bad judges, it's hard to fix.

You really think our legal system is flooded with lawsuits that are going to be universally viewed as frivolous, yet are also being supported by judges and juries to ensure they are successful?

I dont think you understand what a 'frivolous lawsuit' even is. The definition is in the name- they are lawsuits that lack merit and likely wont even reach court, much less win.

 

[mstateglfr]

Watch local TV and you'll see why insurance is a **** show. 3 out of 5 commercials are from personal injury attorneys who do nothing but defraud insurance with BS settlements. It is not getting better but worse. Some kind of reform on the legal profession fraud would go a long way to reducing insurance costs and easing the process of getting a legitimate payment

Hot take that really shouldnt be...
- If insurance companies, employers, etc were willing to pay out closer to what is actually needed to make individuals/employees whole, then lawyers wouldnt be as heavily involved.
Eliminate the need for them and they wont be so significant. <--this is so obvious that it seems silly to even specify.


But instead, insurance companies, employers, etc who try to provide the lowest payout are driving injured/hurt parties to seek representation.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Hot take that really shouldnt be...
- If insurance companies, employers, etc were willing to pay out closer to what is actually needed to make individuals/employees whole, then lawyers wouldnt be as heavily involved.
Eliminate the need for them and they wont be so significant. <--this is so obvious that it seems silly to even specify.


But instead, insurance companies, employers, etc who try to provide the lowest payout are driving injured/hurt parties to seek representation.

I don’t entirely disagree with you, but even if made more than whole, a lot of people will try to sue for more if they think they can get it. People are just as greedy as corporations.

 

[pmack3641]

Well going with Allstate would be a "lateral move".

Who are (if any) the better insurance companies for home & auto. Also is it financially better to have separate policies with different companies instead of the combined plans they all offer? Is the cost differential for separate policies compared to a combo that much greater?

 

[johnson86-1]

You really think our legal system is flooded with lawsuits

Where did you get that wording?

that are going to be universally viewed as frivolous, yet are also being supported by judges and juries to ensure they are successful?

I dont think you understand what a 'frivolous lawsuit' even is. The definition is in the name- they are lawsuits that lack merit and likely wont even reach court, much less win.

Frivolous lawsuits do reach the courts. All it takes is paying a filing fee and filing them and they are there. Beyond that, even if you wanted to assume our legal system was flawless, frivolous would still not mean "easily and/or quickly dismissed". There are non-frivolous suits that can get tossed for a variety of reasons. And "Artful" pleading can go a long way towards keeping a case in court that would ultimately be a clear loser assuming you have a competent and good faith fact finder, whether judge or jury.

But yes, there is a lot of time and money spent on BS claims. And depending on the jurisdiction, there are a lot of frivolous claims settled for real money because of concern about the judge or jury pool they would get stuck with.

 

[mstateglfr]

I don’t entirely disagree with you, but even if made more than whole, a lot of people will try to sue for more if they think they can get it. People are just as greedy as corporations.

For sure. Totally agree that people are just as greedy as corporations.

I think this is, in part, a matter of what is being discussed as 'the issue' too.
- If 'the issue' is that people sue for more than they really need to be made whole or for the company to learn their lesson, that could definitely result in higher costs...though I doubt the actual increase due to that scenario is anywhere close to the increase in prices. One outpaces the other, best I can tell.
- If 'the issue' is whether or not people would even go to court if they were offered to be made whole earlier on, I would say that yeah a lot of people would choose to skip the lawyer and lawsuit process and take the offer.


A vast majority of what lawyer involvement in damage/injury claims wouldnt be necessary if the insurance company/employer would just offer to make the person whole to begin with.
When insurance companies and employers lowball offers or offload blame onto a victim, they are vilifying themselves and choosing to make insurance the very shitshow that the poster was complaining about.


Obviously this calculated risk continues to pay off overall for insurance companies and employers, so they keep doing it. They control the purse strings and they have the power to make the process less like a shitshow.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Who are (if any) the better insurance companies for home & auto. Also is it financially better to have separate policies with different companies instead of the combined plans they all offer? Is the cost differential for separate policies compared to a combo that much greater?

I am CERTAINLY not an authority on this but I plan on switching to Farm Bureau for everything.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

For sure. Totally agree that people are just as greedy as corporations.

I think this is, in part, a matter of what is being discussed as 'the issue' too.
- If 'the issue' is that people sue for more than they really need to be made whole or for the company to learn their lesson, that could definitely result in higher costs...though I doubt the actual increase due to that scenario is anywhere close to the increase in prices. One outpaces the other, best I can tell.
- If 'the issue' is whether or not people would even go to court if they were offered to be made whole earlier on, I would say that yeah a lot of people would choose to skip the lawyer and lawsuit process and take the offer.


A vast majority of what lawyer involvement in damage/injury claims wouldnt be necessary if the insurance company/employer would just offer to make the person whole to begin with.
When insurance companies and employers lowball offers or offload blame onto a victim, they are vilifying themselves and choosing to make insurance the very shitshow that the poster was complaining about.


Obviously this calculated risk continues to pay off overall for insurance companies and employers, so they keep doing it. They control the purse strings and they have the power to make the process less like a shitshow.

the system sucks but I don’t really know how it can realistically be better. Hopefully or government will prevent collusion and a startup will identify a way to be profitable for less by not screwing people. Holding my breath.
I’ve seen coworkers get screwed by insurance companies basically because the company knew they could. I encouraged those people to get a lawyer. I’ve also worked with another lady who managed to drum up multiple frivolous lawsuits a year. She was quite proud of herself. Would companies be better to the first group of coworkers of people like the lawsuit lady didn’t exist? Which came first, chicken or the egg? Who knows? I just canceled all my insurance and spend that money on lottery tickets hoping that hits before I need insurance.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

There is a difference though, between certain companies that provide insurance as opposed to others and it comes down to you get what you pay for. People gripe and complain about how much Farm Bureau or nationwide cost but they are some of the least litigated insurance companies out there because they pay and they stand behind what they say they are going to do.

If body shops are refusing to take Allstate or State Farm claims, then I think that’s an indication that the company is not holding up their end of the bargain

In Alabama, if you have ALFA, you’re golden. We had 2 claims on roofs on 2 different properties. No issues. Both times the contractor’s first question was, “who’s your insurance provider?” In both cases they jumped on the job without hesitation because they knew they’d get paid.

With the tornado in 2011, same story. I helped with relief work for months, and it was the same BS everywhere you went. A vast majority of the property owners stuck in the mess of red-tape with no recourse and no way to get started were State Farm customers.

Don’t even get me started on the absolute asss-rapery State Farm put MS folks after Katrina.

In a disaster like that, when the limited amount of roofing contractors available have already committed to homeowners with insurers they knew would pay, the poor folks stuck with cuntfuckery companies like State Farm are up a tree and behind in the count.

 

[mstateglfr]

the system sucks but I don’t really know how it can realistically be better. Hopefully or government will prevent collusion and a startup will identify a way to be profitable for less by not screwing people. Holding my breath.
I’ve seen coworkers get screwed by insurance companies basically because the company knew they could. I encouraged those people to get a lawyer. I’ve also worked with another lady who managed to drum up multiple frivolous lawsuits a year. She was quite proud of herself. Would companies be better to the first group of coworkers of people like the lawsuit lady didn’t exist? Which came first, chicken or the egg? Who knows? I just canceled all my insurance and spend that money on lottery tickets hoping that hits before I need insurance.

I could tell you about a system where profit doesnt drive decisions, but it often causes people call me a communist, socialist, and marxist all at once.
^ I do recognize it too would have frustrations/flaws.

So instead, Ill just say that I listened to a podcast yesterday about scratchoff lotto tickets and apparently Massachusetts residents spend $1037 per person per year on lottery tickets. That is almost double the next state.
MA also wins the most per person, so I guess thats a nice consolation prize.

Lottery Statistics and Revenue by State | The Motley Fool

Americans shelled out $103 billion on state lottery tickets in 2023 and earned a prize payout of $69 billion. Does that make playing the lottery a good investment?

www.fool.com

 

[randystewart]

Hot take that really shouldnt be...
- If insurance companies, employers, etc were willing to pay out closer to what is actually needed to make individuals/employees whole, then lawyers wouldnt be as heavily involved.
Eliminate the need for them and they wont be so significant. <--this is so obvious that it seems silly to even specify.


But instead, insurance companies, employers, etc who try to provide the lowest payout are driving injured/hurt parties to seek representation.

The flip side of that.... I would argue that most injury settlements involve no legitimate injury at all. I have a cousin who got a decent sized settlement after someone backed into her car in the grocery store parking lot.

 

[mstateglfr]

The flip side of that.... I would argue that most injury settlements involve no legitimate injury at all.

Interesting perspective. I can see why you think there is an overwhelming amount of abuse of the system.
Also interesting would be to see actual verifiable numbers that support your claim of there not being an injury in over 50% of injury settlements.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

I could tell you about a system where profit doesnt drive decisions, but it often causes people call me a communist, socialist, and marxist all at once.
^ I do recognize it too would have frustrations/flaws.

So instead, Ill just say that I listened to a podcast yesterday about scratchoff lotto tickets and apparently Massachusetts residents spend $1037 per person per year on lottery tickets. That is almost double the next state.
MA also wins the most per person, so I guess thats a nice consolation prize.

Lottery Statistics and Revenue by State | The Motley Fool

Americans shelled out $103 billion on state lottery tickets in 2023 and earned a prize payout of $69 billion. Does that make playing the lottery a good investment?

www.fool.com

1. WTF does this have to do with dropped insurance policies

2. I doubt lottery tickets and scratch-offs are a big problem where communism has made gambling a pastime for the elite class only

3. This country has so much wealth, and the quality of life is high enough that liberal pearl clutching lottery opponents like you often call it a “tax on the POOR”.

4. You linked a site called “fool.com”

 

[mstateglfr]

1. WTF does this have to do with dropped insurance policies

2. I doubt lottery tickets and scratch-offs are a big problem where communism has made gambling a pastime for the elite class only

3. This country has so much wealth, and the quality of life is high enough that liberal pearl clutching lottery opponents like you often call it a “tax on the POOR”.

4. You linked a site called “fool.com”
View attachment 757977

My comments werent judgement, they were just regurgitating some stuff I had recently heard about lottery play. I found it interesting so I posted.
Why the 17 do you think I am opposed to the lottery? I have no issues with lotteries existing.
And have you really never heard of the MotleyFool website?



Seriously, step back and read my lottery comments again, then read your response. Its bonkers. You jump to conclusions.

 

[johnson86-1]

I could tell you about a system where profit doesnt drive decisions, but it often causes people call me a communist, socialist, and marxist all at once.
^ I do recognize it too would have frustrations/flaws.

So instead, Ill just say that I listened to a podcast yesterday about scratchoff lotto tickets and apparently Massachusetts residents spend $1037 per person per year on lottery tickets. That is almost double the next state.
MA also wins the most per person, so I guess thats a nice consolation prize.

Lottery Statistics and Revenue by State | The Motley Fool

Americans shelled out $103 billion on state lottery tickets in 2023 and earned a prize payout of $69 billion. Does that make playing the lottery a good investment?

www.fool.com

I won't call you a communist, I would just say you don't understand principal/agent problems. Or maybe I'd point out that there are plenty of non-profit or mutual companies in the insurance space, whether you're talking about property/casualty, life insurance, disability, health insurance or annuities. They don't generally dominate for the same reasons non-profits don't dominate other industries, even though somebody with no knowledge of human nature or history might assume that eliminating the profit motive would just mean cheaper costs for the same level of service.

 

[Yeti]

Two things from an insurance person
put all toys on a separate policy Sxs , tractor, camper etc
Carry a high deductible you may eart a claim or two but you will have insurance which you should view as a disaster only policy.

added bonus look for an insurance company not writing in CA or FL so you limit your exposure to losses there

v

 

[Villagedawg]

I could tell you about a system where profit doesnt drive decisions, but it often causes people call me a communist, socialist, and marxist all at once.
^ I do recognize it too would have frustrations/flaws.

Yeah. Imagine if we actually HAD a government of, by, and for the people instead of just plastering it on a T shirt or the side of a bus.

 

[patdog]

 

[RopeDawg]

I am an independent P&C agent licensed in Alabama and Mississippi. Insurers will look for any and all excuses to cancel or deny. See it all the time. If you argue they eventually pay it but half the time people don’t so they get away with it.

it’s basically built into their business model to deny first.