state championship football games to a rotation between Starkville, Oxford, Hattiesburg and Jackson... Matt said it is in the works but Dick thinks that it should be rotated only between Oxford and Starkville (SEC teams) much like the Alabama model. I think this is the first time I have agreed with Dick Cross. Thoughts??
Interesting topic on Head to Head today concerning moving the High School....
- Thread starter BogeyGolfer.sixpack
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If it's a rotation, I think you've gotta play it in Hattiesburg too. If you're going to give USP the chance to play in Oxford and West Point/Starkville the chance to play at DWS, you've gotta have some advantage for teams like Petal, Oak Grove, Wayne County, Picayune, etc.
I'll say MSU, OM, USM
and move on.
The only legit way to go, and it's fair to everyone.
Just my opinion.
and move on.
The only legit way to go, and it's fair to everyone.
Just my opinion.
I say 17 USM. Sorry, but OM and MSU are already at a disadvantage having two SEC schools in a less populated State than anybody else. Having to play the "fair is fair" game with USM is holding us both back. As soon as USM starts putting more people in the stands than a high school game, they should not get a spot in the rotation. Bama and Auburn said 17 you to UAB, Troy, Samford, and USA....we should definitely be able to say it to USM. And now is the time, after they went 0-12...they have nothing to back their argument right now. No fans, no money, no wins, no coach (until a few days ago), no reason to be taken into consideration in this matter.
Sorry to sound like a prick, but they are holding us back. Life ain't fair.
Sorry to sound like a prick, but they are holding us back. Life ain't fair.
It's not really about being fair to USM, it's about being fair to the schools and fans of the South half of the state. The drive to Oxford would be terrible for someone from say, Pascagoula.
I think Jackson is probably best.
I think Jackson is probably best.
Yea, because keeping a high school championship game from them will show them who's boss.**
It's about fairness to the high schools... not whether or not USM is holding us back (since a high school championship game has practically no bearing on anything at all concerning our relationship with them). In terms of North and South, Alabama and Auburn are both fairly centrally located in the State... State and OM are both in the north half by almost 100 miles (Starkville is 82 miles from Meridian... which is the closest school in the south half). Just like someone pointed out earlier... it's not fair that South Panola gets to play 20 miles away every other year while Petal, Gulfport, or Oak Grove have to travel 2.5+ hours no matter what.
It's about fairness to the high schools... not whether or not USM is holding us back (since a high school championship game has practically no bearing on anything at all concerning our relationship with them). In terms of North and South, Alabama and Auburn are both fairly centrally located in the State... State and OM are both in the north half by almost 100 miles (Starkville is 82 miles from Meridian... which is the closest school in the south half). Just like someone pointed out earlier... it's not fair that South Panola gets to play 20 miles away every other year while Petal, Gulfport, or Oak Grove have to travel 2.5+ hours no matter what.
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I see what you're saying, but think about it....it's one damn game per year, for two teams. I guarantee you the players and their parents would be fine with going a little further for a damn Championship. The kids would rather it, do u not agree?
The early games from the state championship are at 10 or something, aren't they? The teams would have to get up at a ridiculous hour just to make it in time to get a good work up in.
Change the times. Hell, Florida does it and they have far far more travel distance to deal with than MS. I completely understand the argument you two are making, I really do, but for one game a year it would be awesome for the kids, and great for MSU and Ole Miss.
Florida rotates between Florida, Forida State, and Miami. Can you imagine being a North Florida team and having to travel to Miami? I bet the kids are freaking pumped to make that trip to play in the Championship. Just sayin.
If the MHSAA is willing to put the players up in a motel or something, I think it's a great idea.
No, I really don't agree. The MHSAA would have control over the games, not the universities themselves. I'm almost certain the Alabama Athletic Association worked out the deal with Bama and Auburn. They were looking for somewhere besides Legion Field to host the games... which is ironically where UAB plays... so that makes your point about Bama and Auburn "leaving UAB out" a moot point, anyway. Troy is about an hour from Auburn (70 miles), so location is of no advantage there, Mobile is 360 miles from Huntsville and 260 miles from Birmingham (Desoto County is about 270 miles from Hattiesburg) and Samford would be like games being played at Mississippi College or Millsaps (the capacity of that stadium is 6,700... and no, I didn't leave out a zero).
I don't think this should be some kind of personal vendetta against USM to "keep them down," because giving them the opportunity to host a high school championship game would hardly affect us at all. It should be about the venues and their locations in respect to the high schools, not about which school's campus they are on.
Lastly I don't think it's fair that a school like Gulfport or Oak Grove would have to travel 3 or 4 hours to go to the game at either location while Olive Branch, Starkville, or South Panola would basically have to drive down the street. Couple that with the fact the big games are usually played at night, that would really piss me off if I were a parent, player, or coach in south Mississippi.
I don't think this should be some kind of personal vendetta against USM to "keep them down," because giving them the opportunity to host a high school championship game would hardly affect us at all. It should be about the venues and their locations in respect to the high schools, not about which school's campus they are on.
Lastly I don't think it's fair that a school like Gulfport or Oak Grove would have to travel 3 or 4 hours to go to the game at either location while Olive Branch, Starkville, or South Panola would basically have to drive down the street. Couple that with the fact the big games are usually played at night, that would really piss me off if I were a parent, player, or coach in south Mississippi.
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Thought they were going to rotate between MSU um and USM. The idea being each would get two divisions and then rotate the next year. Ie. MSU 6a/5a um 4a/3a USM 1a/2a. Year 2: MSU 4a/3a um 1a/2a USM 5a/6a. Year 3: MSU 1a/2a um 6a/5a USM 3a/4a. Rinse wash repeat.
It's only for two teams from each classification.
That's really not that many. And with regards to the state of Alabama, Auburn is 4 hours away from schools in Mobile that routinely make finals and 4 to 4 and 1/2 hours away from Huntsville. Tuscaloosa is 3 1/2 hours from schools like Auburn and Opelika, both powerful schools in the state. There are always going to be travel concerns for some high schools. Just the way life works.
MSU and OM need to make this happen. We need to make the same commitment to getting high school football in the stadiums. Screw USM or central hosting sites or whatever. OM and MSU are THE 2 schools in the state in the best conference in the best division in college football. These are the types of things we need to fight for to get ourselves noticed and to get kids on our campuses. People will come to these games and I doubt it would affect attendance that much. Add the recruiting aspect with both schools fighting over some of these kids in the finals and you will get fans of the college teams out to the games that don't have any real vested interest in the high school team itself.
That's really not that many. And with regards to the state of Alabama, Auburn is 4 hours away from schools in Mobile that routinely make finals and 4 to 4 and 1/2 hours away from Huntsville. Tuscaloosa is 3 1/2 hours from schools like Auburn and Opelika, both powerful schools in the state. There are always going to be travel concerns for some high schools. Just the way life works.
MSU and OM need to make this happen. We need to make the same commitment to getting high school football in the stadiums. Screw USM or central hosting sites or whatever. OM and MSU are THE 2 schools in the state in the best conference in the best division in college football. These are the types of things we need to fight for to get ourselves noticed and to get kids on our campuses. People will come to these games and I doubt it would affect attendance that much. Add the recruiting aspect with both schools fighting over some of these kids in the finals and you will get fans of the college teams out to the games that don't have any real vested interest in the high school team itself.
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Agree to disagree. By the way, I wasn't saying do it "as a personal vendetta"...on Head to Head Matt was saying USM would be pissed, and that's when I would say, tell us why we should include you. I get the other side of the argument, but I would imagine that Bama and Auburn's location is not the main reason it's ok there. You think UAB was cool with them taking it and giving it to the SEC schools? Hell no they weren't. So why aren't they in the mix now then? Because someone told UAB to know your role. Maybe I'm wrong though. I think the high school kids would love it, and some of those teams from the Coast play North teams during the season and vice versa already...it's not that big a deal if you're talking about a Championship game between 2 teams.
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To be honest, watching those games on TV I doubt any of the games could fill a 6,700 seat stadium. Maybe the 6A game.
I see what you are saying... but I'm thinking venues and locations. Hattiesburg is in south MS and would give schools in that area of the state a chance to bring a lot of fans to the games without much hassle... same for State and OM up here. The Rock is more than capable of hosting a huge 6A showdown, and I think it would be a very fair rotation. USM's ticket sales, conference affiliation, or on-field performance should have no bearing on their ability to host the game, so I don't necessarily buy that argument. If it were logistics (stadium capacity, facilities, parking, etc.), then yes, that should totally be taken into consideration.
It's clear USM does not compete on the same level as we do, but using a high school championship game to try to make that point is childish, at best (at the expense of the schools and families in south MS).
It's clear USM does not compete on the same level as we do, but using a high school championship game to try to make that point is childish, at best (at the expense of the schools and families in south MS).
The southern high schools have an advantage as it stands now...
Imagine Corinth playing in Jackson against a team from the south if that's your argument. It's not about distance, it's about playing the game in a nice stadium in a big time venue. I agree that most players and coaches would like the change. USM nor Jackson can offer the same type of atmosphere especially when we complete our renovations.
Imagine Corinth playing in Jackson against a team from the south if that's your argument. It's not about distance, it's about playing the game in a nice stadium in a big time venue. I agree that most players and coaches would like the change. USM nor Jackson can offer the same type of atmosphere especially when we complete our renovations.
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You'd be wrong. I went to the George County/South Panola game several years ago and the attendance was flirting with 20K... and that is typical. I can't find hard attendance figures, but there was approximately a 35,000 combined attendance this year in Jackson. If evenly split, that's almost 6,000 a game. I imagine the 4A, 5A, and 6A games were bringing in 8,000+ easily.
http://www.misshsaa.com/GeneralInfo.../815/35000-attend-Gridiron-Classic-games.aspx
http://www.misshsaa.com/GeneralInfo.../815/35000-attend-Gridiron-Classic-games.aspx
I was basing that example
off of your argument that it wouldn't be fair for a team like SP to play in Oxford. As it stands now, many southern high schools have less travel time than northern high schools based on Jackson's location. But like I mentioned earlier, distance should not matter, the atmosphere/venue is what matters and State and Ole Miss offer the best in the state.
off of your argument that it wouldn't be fair for a team like SP to play in Oxford. As it stands now, many southern high schools have less travel time than northern high schools based on Jackson's location. But like I mentioned earlier, distance should not matter, the atmosphere/venue is what matters and State and Ole Miss offer the best in the state.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here... but my argument was not necessarily about distance to Jackson. The location completely favoring North half teams every single year would really piss off a lot of south half high schools... and rightly so. I'm not bringing atmosphere into consideration because it would not be a MSU/OM home game... and while Davis Wade and Vaught Hemingway are much nicer than M.M. Roberts, The Rock has the current venue in Jackson beat by a landslide. The also just finished a pretty impressive endzone expansion and video board upgrade a few years ago, so they aren't THAT far behind us.
Simply put, it would not be fair for the south half high schools to be at an automatic disadvantage every single year by having to travel several hundred miles to play their championship games while the north half teams travel far less.
Simply put, it would not be fair for the south half high schools to be at an automatic disadvantage every single year by having to travel several hundred miles to play their championship games while the north half teams travel far less.
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Which one of those plays in the Citrus Bowl in Orlando?**
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...-in-orla20110218_1_football-finals-fhsaa-cfsc
UAB's situation is not at all similar to USM's. UAB is in a bad part of Birmingham with a crumbling stadium - if anything it is comparable to Jackson. No one would complain much if Jackson got left out of the rotation because of the same factors at hand...
I was basing it off of what one of the hosts of Head to Head said, I thought. My apologies.
Not at all similar? Think about that. It is very similar in many many ways. CUSA, in a state with 2 SEC schools. In fact, I would say that UAB has a better argument than USM since one is centrally located.
And comparing UAB to JSU is a huge insult to UAB. The town may compare, but...oh who gives a ****. This is the South Alabama @USA vs South Alabama @Jackson argument all over again. Screw it. Let's just be fair to everyone and give our SEC schools even fewer advantages.
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He was comparing stadiums, not schools. Legion field is a dump of an old city stadium in a terrible location... just like Veterans. As a matter of fact, they recently had to tear down an upper deck because it was rotting and didn't meet any sort of modern building code. MM Roberts is an on-campus stadium that just recently went through a multi-million dollar endzone and video board upgrade (by the same company that did ours). Alabama USED to host the AHSAA championships there every year until they wanted out because the venue and location was so outdated... the very reason the MHSAA is looking to do the same.
How exactly do you think it's some big "advantage" for these schools to play in a(bigger) empty stadium on our campuses? It isn't. All the kids we're interested in recruiting will have been to multiple games at our stadium long before they play this game there. State literally gives out 100s of tickets to "prospects" every game. These kids know what State is/brings.
Are you honestly arguing that having the game occasionally in Hattiesburg hurts us in any way as a program...or in any way makes USM viable competition for us for recruits? Seriously? Can't believe we haven't been losing them all to Jackson St then**
Bull **** Engie. It may not be a HUGE advantage...nobody said it was....but an advantage it is. It would be one more visit to our campus and they would be playing a game on our field. They do not do that on a visit. I see the disadvantage in travel...but I think having a Championship game on MSU's field would be a nice chance for players and their families to see our campus if they haven't. Who knows...there could be a Freshman that starts to love State or Ole Miss just by playing on that field and winning a Championship there and seeing the campus. He could turn out to be a great player by his Senior year and come to State, and his first introduction to MSU could have been that trip to Starkville his Freshman year. I'm not saying it's foolproof, but it is an advantage sure. No disadvantage if USM has it, but if they don't then it's every other year for us. Is it selfish, yes, but we bring in more fans, more money, etc in the state every year...so why can't we look at it in a selfish way? We and Ole Miss are the revenue generator in the SEC, while USM is having to sell home games in CUSA. It is what it is. Don't put words in my mouth like I said we are going to lose recruits or something if USM gets a game there. I didn't say that and I'm not implying it. I'm saying they are no factor either way, so why not do like Alabama and Auburn do.
By the way, if it's "no advantage" then why doesn't either Auburn or Alabama just let the most centrally located of the two host it every year? Not only do they rotate, but it is on the opposite campus as the Iron Bowl every year. Because they don't consider it "fair" for one school to host both in the same year....I wonder why if it's not advantageous?
Just take my comments for what I say, and not spin them into me saying our program would tank if USM got into the rotation. I just think if we can keep them out of it, better for us. Just like if we could host it every year and not even throw Ole Miss into the mix, great! Sarcastic of course.
You are having a logic fail here. If having it at home helps us, the inverse must also be true - meaning having it elsewhere hurts us. The major geography difference between MS and AL has already been explained in detail here as well. You are simply choosing to be ignore that(very logical) fact.
Want to lose recruits? Let's strongarm the MHSAA into ONLY having championship games in Oxford and Starkville - instead of a way that's fair and equitable to all fans/coaches/teams around the state - and see how coaches in south Mississippi(which is ALREADY much closer to LSU's campus than either State or OM) respond to us screwing them in that regard. Didn't think about it that way, did you?
You are acting like there are targeted recruits out there(in Mississippi) that are being missed on by State/OM and poached to go play elsewhere, which is simply not true. Literally, no other state does as nice of job of keeping hometown talent at home since 2009 - Louisiana is the only competition. So, you want to accomplish what in recruiting, exactly, in this game? If the two of us are already getting all the kids that we go after, how does it help either of us in any additional way? Any perceived advantage you think we gain, we still lose when they visit Oxford...
Outside of geography, Alabama is an entirely different circumstance that you should really quit comparing. That state gets poached at a fairly high level by other programs - namely Florida St, who has a top 5 Al prospect committed this year, after taking #1, #2, and #9 last year. LSU took #6 from them, Georgia Tech #8, and we took #11(Beniquez). Much, much more talent leaves Alabama than leaves Mississippi.
Let me know if you (still) can't tell the difference here:
Basketball tourney REALLY needs to be revamped.
Move to the four regional structure (leading to a final four state tourney) rather this "odd" North & South halves structure.
Hold each of the four regionals at a Community College gym in the region.
Rotate the Final Four, i.e. State tourney between three or four arenas scattered across the state. (Landers Center - Southaven, Bancorp South Arena - Tupelo, Mississippi Coast Coliseum - Gulfport, Mississippi Coliseum - Jackson)
It might be more difficult to do, but you could (simultaneously) have three classes at two different sites. This would cut down on the "Breakfast and Basketball' games.)
Move to the four regional structure (leading to a final four state tourney) rather this "odd" North & South halves structure.
Hold each of the four regionals at a Community College gym in the region.
Rotate the Final Four, i.e. State tourney between three or four arenas scattered across the state. (Landers Center - Southaven, Bancorp South Arena - Tupelo, Mississippi Coast Coliseum - Gulfport, Mississippi Coliseum - Jackson)
It might be more difficult to do, but you could (simultaneously) have three classes at two different sites. This would cut down on the "Breakfast and Basketball' games.)
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This needs to stay in Jackson, PERIOD.....
At least from the MSU/OM perspective.
1) You can't screw the South Mississippi high schools. We're already competing with LSU for allegiance in our own state.
2) If you want to compete with USM, by all means, lets rotate it with them. Gives them validation. STUPID.
3) Jackson is a central location.
4) Just ANOTHER reason Jackson needs to renovate that stadium, or build a new one. If you renovate the Vet, which I think is preferable due to capacity, you could do that game there, maybe attract a bowl game, etc. Probably would need to build JSU a smaller stadium however. If you wanted to build a new one, let JSU have the Vet, and build a smaller stadium somewhere in the burbs, that would be perfect for hosting the high school ch'ips and even other outdoor events.
At least from the MSU/OM perspective.
1) You can't screw the South Mississippi high schools. We're already competing with LSU for allegiance in our own state.
2) If you want to compete with USM, by all means, lets rotate it with them. Gives them validation. STUPID.
3) Jackson is a central location.
4) Just ANOTHER reason Jackson needs to renovate that stadium, or build a new one. If you renovate the Vet, which I think is preferable due to capacity, you could do that game there, maybe attract a bowl game, etc. Probably would need to build JSU a smaller stadium however. If you wanted to build a new one, let JSU have the Vet, and build a smaller stadium somewhere in the burbs, that would be perfect for hosting the high school ch'ips and even other outdoor events.
You are having a logic fail here. If having it at home helps us, the inverse must also be true - meaning having it elsewhere hurts us. The major geography difference between MS and AL has already been explained in detail here as well. You are simply choosing to be ignore that(very logical) fact.
Want to lose recruits? Let's strongarm the MHSAA into ONLY having championship games in Oxford and Starkville - instead of a way that's fair and equitable to all fans/coaches/teams around the state - and see how coaches in south Mississippi(which is ALREADY much closer to LSU's campus than either State or OM) respond to us screwing them in that regard. Didn't think about it that way, did you?
You are acting like there are targeted recruits out there(in Mississippi) that are being missed on by State/OM and poached to go play elsewhere, which is simply not true. Literally, no other state does as nice of job of keeping hometown talent at home since 2009 - Louisiana is the only competition. So, you want to accomplish what in recruiting, exactly, in this game? If the two of us are already getting all the kids that we go after, how does it help either of us in any additional way? Any perceived advantage you think we gain, we still lose when they visit Oxford...
Outside of geography, Alabama is an entirely different circumstance that you should really quit comparing. That state gets poached at a fairly high level by other programs - namely Florida St, who has a top 5 Al prospect committed this year, after taking #1, #2, and #9 last year. LSU took #6 from them, Georgia Tech #8, and we took #11(Beniquez). Much, much more talent leaves Alabama than leaves Mississippi.
Let me know if you (still) can't tell the difference here:
No, I'm not...once again you are putting those words in my mouth. All I'm saying is that it can only help us to have a bunch of high school players play the Championship at our stadium. Their parents, classmates, and the players themselves would be on our campus. If you don't think that's a positive, you are just wrong and are arguing for the sake of arguing. I have not said one thing about it being a MAJOR recruiting advantage/disadvantage...but getting high school kids and their families on our campus is always a positive. Don't take it out of context, and make it out like my stance is stronger than what it is.
By the way, South Alabama has a pretty good argument like USM would in your scenario..based on your map. Those poor families on the Alabama coast that have to travel to Tuscaloosa for a Championship that could be played at USA....I bet it's miserable for them**. And saying we keep kids in state better than Bama and Auburn, is really stretching it to fit your argument. If Bama and Auburn weren't able to get recruits nationwide, they could much more easily dominate the recruiting in their state. If Bama weren't loading their recruiting class with 5 star LB's last year, they could have taken Beniquez Brown in a heartbeat. Probably Richie from MS too if they wanted him.
Like I said, I'm willing to put my pride aside and say that I see the problems in my solution...but for you to act like getting kids and families on our campus isn't a good thing, is just argumentative and silly. Is it that hard to see someone's opinion and just agree or disagree without having to search for ways to not lose a discussion. I see your view and I'm fine with it...doesn't mean either one of us is right or wrong...just that we have differing views. Right?
i can agree with this. In my opinion, if we are going to HAVE to include USM in a rotation of the Championship, then we'd be better off leaving it in Jackson and trying to beg for renovation.
This argument is becoming stupid
I listened yesterday when Matt and Richard were talking about this. Both had good points - but the solution is simple. Play the games in Hattiesburg, Starkville, and Oxford. Done. Leave out Jackson (I live here, but how disappointing would it be for a player to make the championship game the year it's in Jackson? They would all want to play in a big college stadium).
Leaving out Hattiesburg just to "support the SEC schools" is stupid, too, simply because we aren't Alabama/Auburn and they aren't UAB. Southern has a nice enough stadium to make for a good championship experience. And I highly doubt we are going to lose a recruit to Southern because the game was played in Hattiesburg.
Finally, this needs to happen so players in this state look forward to playing in our stadiums. If their season's goal is to play in Starkville/Oxford/Hattiesburg at the end of the season then it undoubtedly increases the chance that they'll want to stay in MS to play college.
I listened yesterday when Matt and Richard were talking about this. Both had good points - but the solution is simple. Play the games in Hattiesburg, Starkville, and Oxford. Done. Leave out Jackson (I live here, but how disappointing would it be for a player to make the championship game the year it's in Jackson? They would all want to play in a big college stadium).
Leaving out Hattiesburg just to "support the SEC schools" is stupid, too, simply because we aren't Alabama/Auburn and they aren't UAB. Southern has a nice enough stadium to make for a good championship experience. And I highly doubt we are going to lose a recruit to Southern because the game was played in Hattiesburg.
Finally, this needs to happen so players in this state look forward to playing in our stadiums. If their season's goal is to play in Starkville/Oxford/Hattiesburg at the end of the season then it undoubtedly increases the chance that they'll want to stay in MS to play college.