Is Shapen still with the team?...
- Thread starter thekimmer
- Start date
Yeah.. I don't disagree with that completely. Maybe I just hate college athletics as a whole right now...
Likewise, 6.2 yds/carry with 7 TDs on 64 attempts is better than 0.3 yds/carry with 2 TDs on 111 attempts
Another interesting comparison on sacks. When KT has been sacked, its been for an average loss of 4.1 yards. Shapen was sacked 34 times for an average loss of 8 yards,
I don't think many are disputing KT's issues with passing accuracy and timing, but passing is only half of the story for a QB
Passing is about 80% of the story for a QB. If not more. If you’re not a good passer, your ceiling is not gonna be high.
That’s why I think it was hilarious that Lincoln Riley was lamenting players playing for money and corrupting the soul of the game instead of playing for “honor, team, and tradition” a couple of years after leaving his $8 Million/year job for an $11 Million/year job.
I don't think that is necessarily true in college. Let's looks at some successful QB's and their completion percentages. First two of the most successful State QB's: Dak 62.1% (on 29 passes first season), 58.4%, 61.6%, and 66.2%. Fitz 78.6% (on 14 passes first season), 54.3%, 55.6%, and 51.6%. Next is one I think is a good comp for KT which is current A&M QB Marcel Reed 58.3% (on 36 passes first season), 61.3%, and 61.8%.
KT was 54.5% on 55 passes this year. My point is that he is starting out as good, if not better, as a passer as Fitz (not saying much) and he's really not far behind Dak and Reed in their first season. And if you look at his running stats, he is far better than all of them. Fact is, in college, you don't have to be a great passer to be a good QB and it's definitely not 80% of the story.
Well the 2 comparisons that people use for KT, Cam Newton was at 66% his one season and KJ Jefferson was at 67, 68 and 64% his sophomore, junior and senior years at Arkansas.
For KT and the team to reach the crazy, unrealistic heights that some of the fans have already projected he needs to be much closer to 65% than 55.
Jefferson wasn’t near the prospect that KT was so if Kendall Briles could get that kind of production from him, Lebbro needs to do the same.
Last edited:
Not arguing with that at all…. But I think that was probably a predictable result when we decided to start a true freshman against a team that is hosting in the first round of the playoffs. OM’s defense is certainly not Ohio state or anything but it ain’t bad.
I don’t think our conference record would be any different if Taylor has started all 8 conference games. And last year, the offense didn’t really regress at all with a true freshman, after Shapen got hurt. In my mind, we got 2 years of a true freshman not really performing noticeably worse than 5th and 6th year guy. I’d have just rather have gone through the growing pains with Taylor this year that inevitably will happen next year.
In reply to the OP.....Lebby said in his presser today that Shapen is not with the team, he is at home getting ready for AllStar game/Pro Day.
The revisionist history with MSU fans is pretty spectacular. MVB constantly threw at receivers feet last season.
Shapen was on pace for a 3000 yard season before he got hurt. It’s funny that people say all he did was throw deep. Well he hit a good many of them and won some games.
Theoretically take away 5-10 or Evans/Thompson deep balls due to KTs accuracy and the offensive production takes a major hit without Shapen as QB.
Does KTs legs make up for it? Maybe maybe not. I doubt he would have had much running success against Texas, Tennessee or Florida.
Sure he took too many sacks and his escapability was terrible but there’s no denying that Blake Shapen’s passing ability kept us in and helped win us some games.
We don't beat Arkansas or Arizona St. with Taylor. And we don't take Texas and Tennessee to overtime.
I disagree. I think we win one or maybe two between FL, TX, and TN.
We would have beaten Florida and probably Tennessee. We would not have had to come back against Arkansas. Shapen played really well against Texas. That game was on Lebby being an idiot (so was the Florida end of game decision if we are being honest).
That’s great that he was on pace for 3000 yards. How many wins was he on pace for?
I agree with you on Arizona st. We probably wouldn’t have won that game with Taylor. I can’t say that against Arkansas though. Taylor did lead 2 scoring drives in that game.
What you’re not building in is any room for improvement with Taylor. Now if what we got from Taylor was as good as it’s ever gonna get, then we were absolutely correct in keeping him on the bench all season. But assuming Taylor is going to progress and get better, like most college QBs, then we should have played him much more this season. In particular after the Texas loss. I think it would have been nice to know if we needed to go chase a starting QB in the portal or know if we had something worthwhile in Taylor.
That’s 4% of Shapen’s offense by total yds and 16% by total TD’s. Nothing else that you’d like to add or amend here?
Whoever is comparing him to Cam Newton needs to pump the brakes and use more realistic comparisons which is why I used Marcel Reed. The KJ Jefferson comparison might actually be a good example to prove the haters wrong though that just because he was 54% on 55 passes this year doesn't mean he can't be in the mid to upper sixties next year. His first two seasons he was 45.2% on 31 passes and 48.8% on 41 passes, then went off 67.3%, 68%, 64.2%, and finally 59.3%. So his first two seasons he was significantly worse than KT this year and then significantly improved so it is possible.
Honestly, worst case he doesn't improve and he's Fitz. Best case he improves and becomes Dak or a bit better.
I think this sums it up. Although I think at worst he’ll be a better passer than Fitz
As frustrated as I was that Shapen seemed to constantly hold the ball too long, he did some good things for State, and I appreciate it. That said, I'm disappointed in his decision to not travel with the team to the bowl, whether Lebby told him he'd play or not. I'm just of the opinion that you don't quit on your team just because you lose your starting job.
some fans helped contribute to this as well.
You said "we" decided to make this about money. You were saying that in reference to paying players. In what you were referencing, it was mostly players who decided that and like i said earlier.......some bleeding.......nvm
overall
2,405 yds on 414 attempts (passing and rushing)
18 TDs
703 yds on 119 attempts (passing and rushing)
11 TDs
My thoughts as well.
My other thought was : the fact that he's home, and not finishing the school year, fully solidifies the fact that these guys are just not in school for anything except foosball and nil $$. I know, stating the obvious....
He probably was taking online courses anyway. Just enough to keep him eligible. I doubt he ever stepped foot in a classroom this year.
After the way he was treated, heeeeeeell no I don't blame him. If I was him, I damn near hate us. Along with Tony Shell, Todd Jordan, Derrick Taite, Matt Wyatt, Wayne Madkin, Kevin Fant, Omarr Conner, Mike Henig, Wesley Carroll, Tyson Lee, Tyler Russell, Nick Fitzgerald and Will Rogers - basically all the QBs that were booed while I've been alive and engaged. I don't really remember the Don Smith years, so don't know if he got booed or not.
It's not lost on me that most all are passing QBs save for two exceptions:
- Omarr Conner, who Croom flat out ruined by being idiotic with the offense;
- Nick Fitzgerald, who had the misfortune of following Dak AND got saddled with Sloppy Joe.
QBs we did not boo, outside Dak:
- Sleepy, only started a couple years and got hurt;
- Chris Relf, although you could see folks were restless, but got grace due to beating Ole Miss;
Conclusion: MSU fans do not like QBs who cannot run. Passing is optional, as is sustained winning.
4 of what%? Shapen had 2461 total yards of offense and KT had 395 yards rushing. 395/2461 is not 4%
Either way, you're once again dismissing the glaring fact that Shapen had 111 rushing attempts in which he gave the offense nothing. 0.3 yards. Put another way...
If you take Shapen's total offense of 2461 yards and divide it by his pass + rush attempts, it's 5.9 yds/play.
KT's is 6.7 yds/play
Again, my argument has never been that KT is ready to be an SEC starter, but this argument that Shapen's superior completion % is the end all be all proof that he was the better option this year is ridiculous
I agree with most of this but it’s no damn different than idiots like you booing coaches.
I was talking about last year. He won 5 this year. How many did KT win? Looks like an L against the Bears to me. I’m sure all you fanboys will say he would have won 9 if given the reins.
So let me simplify this for you. I’m referring to the 111 yds rushing that you called Shapen out on. In addition, ESPN has Shapen with 2433 yds passing. So that’s 2544 yds total. With me?
Again, still talking about Shapen. If you take 111 yds rushing and divide by 2544 total you get 4.36%. You basically used 4% of his total offensive contribution (by yds) to make some kind of case for KT.