Is the SEC regretting adding Missouri to the conference?

esplanade91

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Dec 9, 2010
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A loyal and national fanbase for arguably a top 3-5 basketball program still only gets 1/5th the amount of tv viewers that even an average SEC football team gets. Duke basketball can't begin to compete against the guaranteed tv dollars that are now locked into the SEC by adding the St. Louis and Kansas City markets. It's about money man. Football destroys basketball. Every. Single. Time. Duke is 3rd on the list of North Carolina targets. Only one of them will be lucky enough to get into the SEC. It'll be UNC unless they decide to make the worst financial mistake for their University. NCState is praying they are that dumb. VTech is smiling the whole time. They know they get first choice over UVA and can't wait to say yes.

I thought we were talking TV exposure and the SEC Network getting us money. Duke basketball would generate as much or more viewership than MSU, Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky football. Does DUKE personally make as much money per season from basketball as those football programs? Probably not. Maybe close to some of us on the bottom. But strictly SEC Network numbers, they're as valuable as anyone else. Ad space would be gold.


It's a dumb for me to keep arguing this because it won't happen ever. I'm done. Let the record show I'm very much against Mizzou.
 

mstateglfr

All-American
Feb 24, 2008
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ETA: We might suck, but we're a charter member. Take that with a grain of salt, but we helped shape college baseball the same as Alabama or Tennessee helped shape college football, and you can't discount that.

You cant discount that because it is already inherently discounted. Shaping college baseball is akin to shaping college hockey. Super, but its still a regional sport with a niche market. It is inherently discounted. I will give it full credit, but its still less valuable.
 

Ishmael

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Sep 12, 2012
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I don't think we would be able to get only one of the VA schools. Remember when VT wasn't in the ACC? If memory serves, the VA General Assembly basically said they wanted VT and UVA in the same conference, and I suspect they'd do the same again. Now UVA and VT as the 15th and 16th teams would be interesting ...
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
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I don't think we would be able to get only one of the VA schools. Remember when VT wasn't in the ACC? If memory serves, the VA General Assembly basically said they wanted VT and UVA in the same conference, and I suspect they'd do the same again. Now UVA and VT as the 15th and 16th teams would be interesting ...

We will not take them both nor will the B1G. We are going to get one of them, most likely Va Tech(Virginia is a better cultural fit for the B1G -- and they fancy themselves superior to us academically). They are also already Va Tech's football afterthought, so they essentially lose nothing from that move. Check the link provided in my last post -- it was discussed fairly at length there.

Big difference(legislatively) between Va Tech being stuck in an inferior conference making half the tv money(and I'm assuming having a healthy portion of the state legislature as grads) -- and them both having the opportunity to move on the bigger/better conferences where they can make double the money and still play games against each other. $$ overcomes all boundaries. What legislator is going to step up and essentially cost his state institutions a new income of $50mil+/yr? That's what they would be doing in this case. They wouldn't be helping VT(like they did before), they would be hurting them both.

Here's essentially how I see this going to go down:

- Maryland lawsuit settles. If they are stuck paying the full $50mil, the ACC could potentially survive -- at least temporarily. If they negotiate a significantly lower fee(which I believe every bigtime school in realignment has so far), the flood gates will open. Hence the ACC's stance on pulling no punches on the financial penalties involved.

- Clemson and FSU are gone to the Big12. Possibly Miami as well. Wouldn't be surprised if they were the first shoes to drop. At this point, the ACC is no longer viable as a football conference without the Florida recruiting grounds feeding them.

- Virginia and Georgia Tech to the B1G. Virginia wants the academic prestige and Georgia Tech is desperate -- seeing themselves become more and more of an irrelevant afterthought.

- Virginia Tech to the SEC. They could easily let Virginia make the first move out of respect for the situation mentioned previously, but it's likely to happen either way.

- NC State and Duke will be the tell for UNC's decision, since UNC essentially controls where their chips CAN fall. If you see Duke go B1G at this point and/or NC State to the Big12 prior to hearing anything from UNC, you will know the decision has already been made and they are in the SEC boat. This is the only way things can go down where none of the bigtime NC schools get left out(looks like Wake is getting left out either way). Some talk that NC State could be involved in the first round toward the Big12, but they are still holding out hope for an SEC opportunity. IF UNC goes to the B1G with Virginia, NC State comes to the SEC, and Duke essentially gets left out.
 

Cow College

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Aug 21, 2012
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I thought we were talking TV exposure and the SEC Network getting us money. Duke basketball would generate as much or more viewership than MSU, Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky football. Does DUKE personally make as much money per season from basketball as those football programs? Probably not. Maybe close to some of us on the bottom. But strictly SEC Network numbers, they're as valuable as anyone else. Ad space would be gold.


It's a dumb for me to keep arguing this because it won't happen ever. I'm done. Let the record show I'm very much against Mizzou.

That's a completely false statement. Football makes more money at duke and Kentucky and everywhere else than basketball. March madness is worth about $1-2 billion a year and they split it evenly between all conferences. Look up the revenues of any of the teams and football is by far the money maker. A Wednesday night football game has higher viewership than and Indiana Michigan type game does.
 

esplanade91

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Dec 9, 2010
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That's a completely false statement. Football makes more money at duke and Kentucky and everywhere else than basketball. March madness is worth about $1-2 billion a year and they split it evenly between all conferences. Look up the revenues of any of the teams and football is by far the money maker. A Wednesday night football game has higher viewership than and Indiana Michigan type game does.
You're completely missing the mark. I'm arguing that I don't think MU adds much to the conference, while I think Duke basketball adds viewership to the SEC from December until late March, which I believe is a better deal than adding two cities that have NFL teams.

People are going to watch SEC football regardless if we have Mizzou and the Kansas City/St. Louis (two cities who don't really care for college football) markets, but the whole country tunes into watch Duke play MSU, Auburn, or who else on primetime ESPN during a period where no one gives a **** about the SEC.

I don't care how much Duke basketball makes Duke. We're all talking about ratings and ESPN money. Every Duke game just about is on TV. We're lucky when Alabama plays UK on national TV, and about 10 people watch that.
 

DerHntr

All-Conference
Sep 18, 2007
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And for the record...

we are all glad you don't run the SEC because you would for some reason give more of a **** about cultural fit than money for the entire conference.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
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I don't see any way Maryland either negotiates a lower exit fee or wins a court battle for it. They're on the hook for the full $50M.
 
Nov 16, 2012
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E'91 do some homework....engie on bullseye for the most part

You're completely missing the mark. I'm arguing that I don't think MU adds much to the conference, while I think Duke basketball adds viewership to the SEC from December until late March, which I believe is a better deal than adding two cities that have NFL teams.

People are going to watch SEC football regardless if we have Mizzou and the Kansas City/St. Louis (two cities who don't really care for college football) markets, but the whole country tunes into watch Duke play MSU, Auburn, or who else on primetime ESPN during a period where no one gives a **** about the SEC.

I don't care how much Duke basketball makes Duke. We're all talking about ratings and ESPN money. Every Duke game just about is on TV. We're lucky when Alabama plays UK on national TV, and about 10 people watch that.


There's also an AAU gap that Slive is trying to close. He'll be fighting delaney tooth/nail over UNC/UVA/Duke. Theres lots of rumors that delaney is trying to sweeten the aau pot with some out of the box moves. I think one of the 3 is a win and 2 of three is a coup. It is a given though that only 1 school per state.

Miz and aTm were grand slams regardless of their W's from an eyeballs and academic standpoint.

BTW, TV ratings for duke nationally dont mean dick. Its the lil ole lady in NC that hasnt watched football in 50 years that makes the difference when she pays the SEC TV tax monthly because her cable company now carries The SEC Network.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
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I don't see any way Maryland either negotiates a lower exit fee or wins a court battle for it. They're on the hook for the full $50M.

I wouldn't count on it -- since they were the school that voted against raising the fee. I see them as likely on the hook for the $20 mil that was negotiated last year(I believe they voted for that one, but I'm not positive) --- the $50 mil is very much up for negotiation...

Either way.
14 team(current) ACC worth about $17mil/team/yr
14 team(future) B1G worth about $30-35mil/team/yr before considering further expansion
14 team SEC worth $28-35mil/team/yr(pre SEC network) before considering further expansion

The B1G and SEC teams are going to end up easily making over $50 mil/yr -- with the SEC eventually settling in at 25-40% more overall money once the business models match up(B1G's has been superior to this point) based on pure numbers of eyeballs. Potentially ALOT more money than that for both of us though.

Also worth noting that we will eventually be the only mega conference in the country with regional continuity -- which always has been huge for our conference's identity(and will be going forward). These other conferences believe they will be getting solid footholds into SEC territory with the future expansions, when in fact, I believe they will simply be putting many of those teams on islands of desolation that suddenly make the schools more difficult to recruit to.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,465
25,692
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Just for comparison on TV ratings. The Kentucky-Kansas basketball title game drew a 9.7 rating and was outdrawn by Dancing With The Stars. The Bama-Notre Dame game drew a 15.1 share and was one of the lowest rated BCS title games ever because of the blowout. So people need to STFU about basketball. It's not what's driving realignment. It's barely even a consideration.
 

DAWG61

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Feb 26, 2008
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I found this interesting.

From CarolinaBlue message board (lead topic was on expansion)


[h=3]NJDF 5215 posts[/h]Being a Big Ten member is worth WAY more than any other conference. Football money is chump change compared to CIC access (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Institutional_Cooperation#section_3) Big Ten member schools get. But the Big Ten will only accept members to their conference that qualify academically...this is why FSU will not get offered as much as Big Ten football fans may want them. Get ready for the ACC to die as you have known it, the following schools will probably end up in the Big Ten: UNC, UVA, Duke, GT, BC and either ND or Johns Hopkins.
We'll see.





Which is exactly why the BIG wants UNC and UNC should join the BIG. The negotions for research dollars is estimated to be $1BILLION per school per year. What could UNC do with 25% more research money? Whether UNC joins or not, that is the payout with or without them. If you were on your BOT could you turn that research money down to save some rivalry in sports and feel you have done your school a service? I hope UNC does join as I live in Wilmington now and would like to see my Buckeyes play in Chapel Hill, but if they don't the boat is still going to move along

http://northcarolina.247sports.com/...d-offer-to-UNC-to-join-conference--16922876/1
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
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Commonly-used bs from the B1G machine to try to "level the playing field" in arguments against the SEC. I've seen it regurgitated countless times -- without a single poster that could defend the argument under any type of scrutiny.

Scrutiny like this, from the very thread you were reading:
UNC is a 200 yr old research university with $767M in research funding in 2012 alone. UNC is engaged in numerous cooperative projects with institutions all over the world. If an academic consortium is so valuable, then why isn't UNC already a member of one? Why hasn't the failure to be a member of such a consortium limited UNC as research institution?Where is the support for this position that CIC membership has exponential value that will grow research funding? I haven't seen anything to suggest that athletic conference affiliation nor membership in the CIC helps win research grants.

The only people that think the B1G is impressive are people that have grown up in the midwest.
I am getting tired of B1G posters trying to sale me on the B1G.