Is there any coach that would stay at a MS school?

[OG Goat Holder]

We all know that’s what elevates your program for a long time. It eventually wears off if you don’t capitalize, but even still, a long tenured elite coach is how you change the perception. Florida State, Virginia Tech, etc. If you manage to win a title too, you are thought of as a national program for like 20 years. See Clemson.

Appears Johnny Vaught is the only one who has ever done it in football. That’s obviously worn off but they still benefit from a bigger following due to that.

Mullen stayed 9 and got sort of close. Kane stayed 6 and while I don’t think they would have won it, 11-1 is 11-1.

We may never see it. That’s one reason I advocate for older coaches who are at their last stop when they get here. And why Fritz would have been perfect. And Leach had he lived. We at least get a consistent decade from those guys without the drama. Jackie would have been but he was still in his forties when we hired him so we had to endure a little bit of flirting there at the end of the 90s.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

Is KC Keeler #1 on your board?

 

[SteelCurtain74]

Jeff Bower was at USM for 17 years. The last 14 of those were winning seasons. He won more bowl games than he lost. While USM would never be confused with a national program, the fans thought he should be winning more so they showed him the door. They haven't recovered since outside of a 12 win season with Larry Fedora.

USM fans fell into the trap that a lot of fanbases fall into. A certain level of winning is fine for a while but sooner or later fans want more. Win 8 consistently, they want 9. Win 9 consistently, they want 10.

Bower would have most likely retired there if he hadn't been fired.

 

[Baddog11]

Jackie is a legend. Came back as a legend. Remains a legend. Got Jim Waide and proved the ncaa rogue investigator had a vendetta against him. How dare you try to rewrite the truth of it .

Oh and Jackie still remains the only coach in state history to play for the sec championship.

 

[L4Dawg]

Jackie is a legend. Came back as a legend. Remains a legend. Got Jim Waide and proved the ncaa rogue investigator had a vendetta against him. How dare you try to rewrite the truth of it .

Oh and Jackie still remains the only coach in state history to play for the sec championship.

Allyn McKeen won one.

 

[Baddog11]

Allyn McKeen won one.

*to play for the sec championship in Atlanta

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Jackie is a legend. Came back as a legend. Remains a legend. Got Jim Waide and proved the ncaa rogue investigator had a vendetta against him. How dare you try to rewrite the truth of it .

Oh and Jackie still remains the only coach in state history to play for the sec championship.

Ok genespager.

I love King Jackie. But his last 3 years count.

Fact of the matter is, he was 48 when he came here. So he’s not the type guy I’m talking about. I want 55-60 with a chip on their shoulder.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Mullen would be the closest thing in modern era since he stayed 9 years, in my opinion he could be that guy at again should there be mutual interest again.

 

[RBcoach]

Coach34

 

[TXDawg.sixpack]

Rocky Felker and Matt Luke would’ve stayed forever.**

 

[Maroon13]

I know because it involved OM, it's difficult to be objective. However It did strike me how many espn personalities said, point black on national tv that... he had to go simply because lsu was a better job. What other sport do people that cover a sport, admit one team is simply better than the other based on simply resources. They basically said one school has no chance and the other does.

This inspired me to do some digging on lsu football. Because I've always thought of them as good but not a "blue blood".

LSu is 17 nationally for all time wins.
lsu ranks 6 in the sec in all time wins.
lsu best accomplishment is 5 SECCG game wins since 92. Which is tied for 3rd with UGA as of today.
LSU is 4th in the league with SECCG appearances at 7.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

I say we wade into being the "Stepping Stone School". Be the University willing to give the hot young G5 HC head coach a chance to coach in the most prestigious conference in the USA.

Instead of whining and crying about losing a coach, say like what Ole Miss is doing with Lane Kiffin, tell him "thank you" and let all the coaches' agents know we're hiring.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I say we wade into being the "Stepping Stone School". Be the University willing to give the hot young G5 HC head coach a chance to coach in the most prestigious conference in the USA.

Instead of whining and crying about losing a coach, say like what Ole Miss is doing with Lane Kiffin, tell him "thank you" and let all the coaches' agents know we're hiring.

Because that’s the opposite of what builds a program, at least without an incredible amount of luck. Hitting on a young coach twice in a row? I’d like to know how many have pulled that off. G5s maybe.

Older guys are a safer bet.

 

[Maroon13]

Because that’s the opposite of what builds a program, at least without an incredible amount of luck.

The building a program mantra is a just something the talking heads say. They don't really believe that. As evident by the Kiffin sweepstakes.

It seemed Kiffin had built something there. He/They have won 40 games in six years. Two news year day bowl. 4 of 6 seasons with 10 wins... they are 6 in the country and solidly in the playoffs and you still had every ESPN talking head saying he had to leave for LSU or Florida. ....and calling those schools better programs even though OM out performed both in the last 6 years.

PJ FLeck held on at Minnesota a year or so ago. We shall see how long Cig stays at Indiana...but to answer your question......NO, Kiffin and Mullen prove no outsiders will stay at the MS schools once ESPN tells them "better programs" are calling and CAA needs a commission.

 

[L4Dawg]

Rocky Felker and Matt Luke would’ve stayed forever.**

Those kind of guys are the only ones that MIGHT if they won at UM or MSU.

 

[L4Dawg]

I know because it involved OM, it's difficult to be objective. However It did strike me how many espn personalities said, point black on national tv that... he had to go simply because lsu was a better job. What other sport do people that cover a sport, admit one team is simply better than the other based on simply resources. They basically said one school has no chance and the other does.

This inspired me to do some digging on lsu football. Because I've always thought of them as good but not a "blue blood".

LSu is 17 nationally for all time wins.
lsu ranks 6 in the sec in all time wins.
lsu best accomplishment is 5 SECCG game wins since 92. Which is tied for 3rd with UGA as of today.
LSU is 4th in the league with SECCG appearances at 7.

Uhh, they also have four national championships, three since 2000.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I know because it involved OM, it's difficult to be objective. However It did strike me how many espn personalities said, point black on national tv that... he had to go simply because lsu was a better job. What other sport do people that cover a sport, admit one team is simply better than the other based on simply resources. They basically said one school has no chance and the other does.

This inspired me to do some digging on lsu football. Because I've always thought of them as good but not a "blue blood".

LSu is 17 nationally for all time wins.
lsu ranks 6 in the sec in all time wins.
lsu best accomplishment is 5 SECCG game wins since 92. Which is tied for 3rd with UGA as of today.
LSU is 4th in the league with SECCG appearances at 7.

It's more about the distinct brand with LSU. Of course they've won plenty too.

But you don't really have to look hard to find the metrics needed to be a blue blood.
- Do you care fanatically about football? Yes;
- Do you have a big fanbase with money? Yes;
- Do you have players in close proximity? Yes.

Additional factors:
- Only university in a state of 4.6M people (similar size to AL and SC who split resources);
- Located in a major city and in proximity to an even larger major city;
- Tradition and brand recognition.

The last one may be the most advantageous one. Think about it, everyone loves the culture. I don't necessarily prefer it, but I'm still fascinated by it. LSU people wear it with a badge of honor, it's a part of them. And it fits in many places - Texas, Mississippi, southern Alabama, Florida. It's a regional brand, but nationally known. Not everybody can be a part of it, but everybody knows about it. Kinda strange but that's what makes it LSU.

And honestly I don't think Lane fits with it. They've essentially gotten one hire right - Saban - yet they've still won all those titles in the past 25 years. I'm not saying find another Saban, but they have to find somebody along those lines. Just a hard nosed disciplined 17er who plays fundamental football and isn't stupid. Curt Cignetti would beat everybody 75-0 if he was there.

 

[40 acres and a mule]

The building a program mantra is a just something the talking heads say. They don't really believe that. As evident by the Kiffin sweepstakes.

It seemed Kiffin had built something there. He/They have won 40 games in six years. Two news year day bowl. 4 of 6 seasons with 10 wins... they are 6 in the country and solidly in the playoffs and you still had every ESPN talking head saying he had to leave for LSU or Florida. ....and calling those schools better programs even though OM out performed both in the last 6 years.

PJ FLeck held on at Minnesota a year or so ago. We shall see how long Cig stays at Indiana...but to answer your question......NO, Kiffin and Mullen prove no outsiders will stay at the MS schools once ESPN tells them "better programs" are calling and CAA needs a commission.

I can tell you what the talking heads are going to say just based on the amount of concrete in the state the university resides, with a few exceptions. The more urban, the more they like you. Not without good reason- that's where the money is.

 

[Maroon13]

Uhh, they also have four national championships, three since 2000

I still say they aren't a blue blood as so many called them. My impression of their program was shaped by the 80-90s when they had losing seasons and a good one. 20-21 is there worst two years in the last 25 years. Howeber They've definitely elevated that program since Saban arrived in 2000. I didn't realize how many ten win seasons they've had in the last 25 years.

Goat- I get all the built in pluses for them. Also I've only been there twice for football weekends. I've been to NewOrleans many times. Both places seem nasty to me. Their stadium is old and dirty and the fans suck. But I guess if you're one of them... the view is different. But if Kiffin stays coked up and craps the bed down there... he won't have to
Lie about being run off the road.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

Admittedly, I haven't read all the replies in detail, but I think Leach would've stayed and retired here after about a decade if we didn't fire him first.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

They would have to walk the thin line of being good enough to keep their job, but not good enough to be offered a substantial raise to leave. Mullen was right there....but then 2014 put him on everyone's radar.

Stansbury probably would have stayed here for life, but he tied his career to Renardo.

 

[golferdog]

MSU would have to commit the $$$ as OM was willing to do for Kiffin, but we'd also have to have a coach willing to stay and continue building the program. Would probably have to be an Alumnus that elevates into a great head coach.

MSU clearly doesn't have the resources the Blue Blood schools do, but a coach like that could change the program for a long time. We need a Ron Polk coach for football. Those odds would have to be 1 in 10,000 to find the right fit.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Admittedly, I haven't read all the replies in detail, but I think Leach would've stayed and retired here after about a decade if we didn't fire him first.

He stayed at Texas Tech 9 years and then 7 years at Washington State. There was talk he would coach a couple more seasons and retire here so I don’t know if he would have gone 8 more years.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

The way college athletics works now there’s only a small handful of coaches who can stay where they are for a long time (10+ years). They’re either going to get fired or move on.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

The way college athletics works now there’s only a small handful of coaches who can stay where they are for a long time (10+ years). They’re either going to get fired or move on.

Older guys will. Or at least are most likely to do so.

Think about this. In the modern era, we have hired 4, really 3, discounting Arnett, coordinators. We hit on 1 of them. We have hired 2 old guys, really 1.5 because Jackie was mid-age rather than old. Both worked. I do think the decade time frame is about the most, and that's when Jackie hit the skids. And the damnable misery of with Leach is that this decade would have likely been filled with wins as well. He'd have probably fallen off a few years from now as well.

 

[patdog]

I'm less worried about getting a coach who will stay at Mississippi State than I am about getting one who will win while he's here and be good enough to get hired away by one of the elite schools.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I'm less worried about getting a coach who will stay at Mississippi State than I am about getting one who will win while he's here and be good enough to get hired away by one of the elite schools.

You might could say that in the old system where you retained all your players. But now, the rebuild/change of coaching culture is harder than ever.

 

[patdog]

You might could say that in the old system where you retained all your players. But now, the rebuild/change of coaching culture is harder than ever.

It's the same still. We're not going to get a top coach who will stay when the Florida's and LSU's of the world come calling. Get one who is good enough to get that call and then don't just promote your DC when they do.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

It's the same still. We're not going to get a top coach who will stay when the Florida's and LSU's of the world come calling. Get one who is good enough to get that call and then don't just promote your DC when they do.

I sure wish we'd promoted our DC in 2017. I actually don't think it's a bad strategy at all. Keeps consistency in a successful situation.

I know the next comment is going to be "well what about Arnett". That was an unprecedented situation and he was not ready. Any idiot could see that Spurrier Jr. was the right move to make there in that interim situation OR making it clear to Arnett that this was an interim situation. Had Leach lived/coached here for another 5 years or so, Arnett probably would have the experience needed to promote to head guy at that point.

 

[patdog]

I sure wish we'd promoted our DC in 2017. I actually don't think it's a bad strategy at all. Keeps consistency in a successful situation.

I know the next comment is going to be "well what about Arnett". That was an unprecedented situation and he was not ready. Any idiot could see that Spurrier Jr. was the right move to make there in that interim situation OR making it clear to Arnett that this was an interim situation. Had Leach lived/coached here for another 5 years or so, Arnett probably would have the experience needed to promote to head guy at that point.

I was actually thinking what about Golding. And Todd Grantham would have been a disaster hire.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I was actually thinking what about Golding. And Todd Grantham would have been a disaster hire.

I know. But it's the same analogy. If it fails, you move on. But I like the idea of that consistency, rather than intentionally upsetting everything you have. Chances of an upgrade are just too low and sometimes non-existent.

 

[22yardpunt]

We’re gone after the younger, driven, creative, outside the box thinker type of guys in the past. At that was what the ADs said. But the problem with younger and ambitious guys is that that same ambition will say yes to the bigger school when it comes calling. Might be better to find that guy that may be past that point in life. Not sit on your haunches but maybe not so quick to chase the shiny ball.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Well, Mike Leach agreed to a lifetime contract at MSU. Not sure if that counts….

 

[BVDawg]

Put yourself in an AD’s shoes. Do you want to hire someone that is kinda competitive, or do you hire someone that wants to achieve the ultimate goal (meaning an NC or at the very least Conference Championship) in their respective sport. I don’t think I would want to hire someone (and pay them 6-10M a year) if eventually they loose that edge because they fall in love with given college town and think it’s a great place to settle down and raise a family. Unless a State alumni finds the secret to cold fusion (and then gives most of that wealth to the school), then we will always be a professional stepping stone for up and coming coaches. Just look at our history of conference or national championships. BTW; OM is basically in the same boat (maybe a little further along … but it’s not tremendous gap).

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

It's more about the distinct brand with LSU. Of course they've won plenty too.

But you don't really have to look hard to find the metrics needed to be a blue blood.
- Do you care fanatically about football? Yes;
- Do you have a big fanbase with money? Yes;
- Do you have players in close proximity? Yes.

Additional factors:
- Only university in a state of 4.6M people (similar size to AL and SC who split resources);
- Located in a major city and in proximity to an even larger major city;
- Tradition and brand recognition.

The last one may be the most advantageous one. Think about it, everyone loves the culture. I don't necessarily prefer it, but I'm still fascinated by it. LSU people wear it with a badge of honor, it's a part of them. And it fits in many places - Texas, Mississippi, southern Alabama, Florida. It's a regional brand, but nationally known. Not everybody can be a part of it, but everybody knows about it. Kinda strange but that's what makes it LSU.

And honestly I don't think Lane fits with it. They've essentially gotten one hire right - Saban - yet they've still won all those titles in the past 25 years. I'm not saying find another Saban, but they have to find somebody along those lines. Just a hard nosed disciplined 17er who plays fundamental football and isn't stupid. Curt Cignetti would beat everybody 75-0 if he was there.

I agree. A hard-nosed Midwestern coach would win big there.

Sincerely,

Gerry DiNardo
Les Miles
Brian Kelly

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I agree. A hard-nosed Midwestern coach would win big there.

Sincerely,

Gerry DiNardo
Les Miles
Brian Kelly

What’s Midwestern got to do with it? I’m thinking more of a hard nosed disciplined defensive minded coach. John Sumrall might have been the guy but he’s a little green. Cignetti is offensive but he’s in that mold. James Franklin is another I think would have worked. Brent Venables, Jeff Brohm, Elko.

 

[11thEagleFan]

Jeff Bower was at USM for 17 years. The last 14 of those were winning seasons. He won more bowl games than he lost. While USM would never be confused with a national program, the fans thought he should be winning more so they showed him the door. They haven't recovered since outside of a 12 win season with Larry Fedora.

USM fans fell into the trap that a lot of fanbases fall into. A certain level of winning is fine for a while but sooner or later fans want more. Win 8 consistently, they want 9. Win 9 consistently, they want 10.

Bower would have most likely retired there if he hadn't been fired.

To put an exclamation point on this, Bower was approached by North Texas, SMU, Tulsa Oklahoma State, among others. He was loyal. The firing of Jeff Bower was the dumbest thing we ever did.

 

[TTKADawg]

We all know that’s what elevates your program for a long time. It eventually wears off if you don’t capitalize, but even still, a long tenured elite coach is how you change the perception. Florida State, Virginia Tech, etc. If you manage to win a title too, you are thought of as a national program for like 20 years. See Clemson.

Appears Johnny Vaught is the only one who has ever done it in football. That’s obviously worn off but they still benefit from a bigger following due to that.

Mullen stayed 9 and got sort of close. Kane stayed 6 and while I don’t think they would have won it, 11-1 is 11-1.

We may never see it. That’s one reason I advocate for older coaches who are at their last stop when they get here. And why Fritz would have been perfect. And Leach had he lived. We at least get a consistent decade from those guys without the drama. Jackie would have been but he was still in his forties when we hired him so we had to endure a little bit of flirting there at the end of the 90s.

To answer your question, NO, not with this College Football landscape .. HS included

 

[SirBarksalot]

Rocky Felker

I took a night class in McCool (to avoid chapter meetings), and this south asian professor started talking about something in some sort of comparison to something, and no one knew WTF he was saying…turns out after much questioning, it was Rocky Felker. Every time I read or hear that name, it’s in the way that professor from the subcontinent said it.

 

[o_Hot Rock]

Well, Mike Leach agreed to a lifetime contract at MSU. Not sure if that counts….

Too soon