This year is obviously too soon with PSU's juggernaut, and next year would be a pretty monumental upset, but in two years, Lockett, Jax, Vega, Merrill, and Robideau will be juniors and their next two loaded classes will be on board, so we'll see. PSU isn't getting any less tough, though, so it's setting up to be a real free for all between those two teams. If Ok St overachieves at nationals like PSU typically did 10-15 years ago and comes in second this year, they could be legit contenders next year.
It’s time
- Thread starter Amo28
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I get that, but what I'm trying to say will it be more like 2018 OSU where they come up short and then nothing much until now, or more a regular back and forth between both teams.
This is one of those cases where you make a change to change the dynamic of the program. HC at Iowa is the top three wrestling jobs to have. You don’t need a successor in mind to make the change.
Everybody is starting to wake up to the fact of seniors seem to be regressing. Iowa does not shoot, does not score, does not really excite anyone. Anyone that thinks changing assistants will somehow miraculously change the way Brands demands the wrestlers be trained is crazy.
Fans are starting to tune out. We missed out big on Taylor but if we make a change, we can still get the pick of the litter of a lot of talented young coaches.
you make a change because it will bring some excitement back to the program. You make a change to bring stability back. The next coach hopefully won’t rely on transfers and can build the team the way it should be- current recruiting and training methods that embraces technical diversity and scoring. No more of the hating to lose which equates to being afraid to lose. No more not enjoying the wins because that kills a kids soul for the sport.
Iowa Wrestling is a "fringe sport" in the State of Iowa? Not hardly.
NCAA Wrestling DI Championship's have been held in Iowa City, Ames, Des Moines and Cedar Falls. Not exactly population centers. That doesn't happen by accident.
Beth Goetz is compensated very well to make tough decisions, and Dan Gable ain't walking thru that door.
We all have eyes, and the recent Iowa product on the mat won't cut it for many, and frankly this isn't some new phenomenom (Spencer Lee, Desanto, Marinelli, Kemdawg, where have you gone?
). If Beth Goetz is blind she won't get it, but her paying customers will.I don't even care if you get beat, but go down swinging FFS. WAY too little of that IMO. Caliendo and PK are the only ones who remotely resemble the previously determined "Iowa Style", that's not gonna cut it. Hell, Max Murin wasn't great, but you knew he was gonna fight his *** off and try, even overmatched. People can get behind that, even though a National Title is preferable. Where is THAT effort? How do you suppose Iowa Wrestling got to be the attendance behemoth they are Home and Away? It wasn't from watching 1-1 overtime matches for decades I assure you.
I'm not a TnT hater by any stretch of the imagination, but their collective product has unfortunately worn on me too.
So she can do some sort of damage control, or she can sit on her hands and do nothing, and let nature take it's course I guess.
The only change during that time that could have changed the trajectory of the program in the way that you are looking for was snapping up DT when he went on the market. It was discussed ad infinitum on here [edit: on the old board for me] and the same usual suspects who just like to argue for arguing's sake were saying the same things they are now, but OSU took the plunge while Iowa sat on their heels because "we like our guys", and now they are rocketing past everyone except PSU. The next DT hire is going to be another one that comes from a place where they understand the new way to do things. Askren would be perfect if his health permitted, but it sounds like it doesn't. Burroughs, Dake, Nolf, Zain, Hall, someone like that, although I'm not sure that they have DT's marketing skills or business acumen on the business side of it.
The absolutely most ideal thing you could do is get two of them to run the program as a head and associate head coach like Tom and Terry are now (say Dake and Nolf) then add Spencer as a lightweight coach and Snyder (maybe?) as a heavyweight coach. That would be a lot of wrestling gravitas that would generate a ton of buzz. They would need to be committed to every level of it from the youth academy to teaching scrambling and funk at the NCAA level to the RTC and MMA side post-college as well. With all of that, with Iowa's legacy, you'd be right back at the top with PSU and Ok St within a couple years. It doesn't matter if Slumlord Millionaire wants to take his ball and go home. With that sort of commitment, the funding will come.
To me that's just pretty much a cop out to excuse mediocre performance.
Well it's not football so it really doesn't matter. I know you're not saying that but suggesting our AD looks at wrestling that way would be a major problem for most fans. And rightfully so.
While wrestling may not be profitable, I guarantee the balance sheet looks a heck of a lot better when we're competing for championships than when we aren't.
Ultimately I stand by the statement that an AD at Iowa should have championship expectations for the wrestling program bc that's exactly what the program was built on.
You are thinking from a diehard fan point of view instead of an Athletic Director at a B1G school. I get that wrestling is bigger in Iowa than just about anywhere else. That, still does not change the fact that they still LOSE money and do NOT REMOTELY garner the attention football and basketball generate.Iowa Wrestling is a "fringe sport" in the State of Iowa? Not hardly.
NCAA Wrestling DI Championship's have been held in Iowa City, Ames, Des Moines and Cedar Falls. Not exactly population centers. That doesn't happen by accident.
Beth Goetz is compensated very well to make tough decisions, and Dan Gable ain't walking thru that door.
We all have eyes, and the recent Iowa product on the mat won't cut it for many, and frankly this isn't some new phenomenom (Spencer Lee, Desanto, Marinelli, Kemdawg, where have you gone?
I don't even care if you get beat, but go down swinging FFS. WAY too little of that IMO. Caliendo and PK are the only ones who remotely resemble the previously determined "Iowa Style", that's not gonna cut it. Hell, Max Murin wasn't great, but you knew he was gonna fight his *** off and try, even overmatched. People can get behind that, even though a National Title is preferable. Where is THAT effort? How do you suppose Iowa Wrestling got to be the attendance behemoth they are Home and Away? It wasn't from watching 1-1 overtime matches for decades I assure you.
I'm not a TnT hater by any stretch of the imagination, but their collective product has unfortunately worn on me too.
So she can do some sort of damage control, or she can sit on her hands and do nothing, and let nature take it's course I guess.
Is firing Brands going to generate more money or fandom? If so, is it anything more than negligible. Does firing a perennial top 5 coach for an if, come, maybe completely unproven new coach sound like a sound business decision?
I am not saying that Brands shouldn’t be on the hot seat. I just DO NOT see a hire out there to even begin to consider it. I get everyone wanted DT, but the timing never made it realistic and it only truly happened at OkState because a billionaire stepped in with an open checkbook
I appreciate your contributions and don't usually get into the non stop bickering you seem to bring on... But in this case you're accusing others of making strawman arguments, then do blatantly in posts like this? Who said Beth should fire Brands b/c disgruntled fans are mad? If she fires him it should be b/c the staff/program/team aren't meeting expectations. Period. If her expectations are Iowa wrestling should place in the top 5 then that's her prerogative, but none of us know that. It is my opinion if that is the expectation, it is too low.
It is NOT a strawman. I am talking directly to those disgruntled fans. I have yet to see anyone with a truly cogent plan for replacement of Brands. Along with that several are even on here basically speaking for Beth as if they know what she is going to do because that is what they want.
I agree with most of what u say however there’s a possibility of three more dual losses. Plus nationals and B10s could have a poor showing. There’s already quite a bit of fan angst and if this season ends like that I’d imagine there would be quite a bit of donor fuel to make a change. I think that storm would fires the ADs hand regardless.
Suggesting people are saying Beth should fire Brands to appease disgruntled fans on message boards is 100% a strawman.
There have been many good names and plans suggested for future head coaches.
This entire topic is a good debate, the least you could do is not be disingenuous.
It's true, it seems the fans want a generational coach and that doesn't happen very often. PSU was underperforming and Sanderson saw that and that factor did play a part in his decision based on the school's location.
But who's the next game changer? David Taylor could be a great coach and maybe dominate or maybe end up like Brands or Ryan. Doing well when there isn't an obvious favorite. Brands did win across a few decades and grabbed four, almost 5 titles. That's better than most. Ryan won one in 2015 cam close in 2018 but hasn't really challenged. Wasn't Zalesky Gable's right hand man? He was let go after winning three titles.
Finding the next legend is never easy.
Please tell me what plans and good REALISTIC names have been mentioned. Because I haven’t read them. One thing I am not is disingenuous. If Cael or Cunningham were options then I wouldn’t argue against that. Other than those 2, there is not one PROVEN coach to truly consider and the only other things mentioned are all great wrestlers with little to no coaching experience or even true interest in coaching.
With that said, I do think Nolf is intriguing. Not sure he has is an actual, viable solution, but I could see kicking those tires. After that I just don’t see it anywhere…
My gut tells me that the Brands would interpret this as a 'what have you done lately' ultimatum, and in response they would unceremoniously tender their resignations. Same with any kind of detailed performance objectives.
Nobody is gonna tell the Brands how to run their team. Likewise, nobody is going to tell the Brands that wrestling is akin to Sabermetrics when they know it's about being punctual (a full 7 minutes of nonstop aggression and effort). That's how I feel they would respond.
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Honestly, IMO if Tom Ryan keeps doing the things he's doing this year I could see PSU-tOSU be what Iowa-PSU used to be before we started sucking. Again, I don't think it will be a close dual each time out, but should be a good battle at several weights at least this year and next. tOSU has some good young talent.
I can see that. It would probably be best for all parties. Does anyone think Tom would try to coach again at his age? I could see Terry help out Nelson at Regina.
Yes they do but it has never really panned out. He's coached for 20 years at OSU and has one title. While he's doing better than Brands this year, overall your Tom has done better overall. I'm just pointing out that it isn't easy to get a great coach.
Providing my “cogent plan” only because I know it won’t be considered. Four simple steps:
- buyout Tom’s contract
- hire Jason Nolf, even if it takes DT-like cash
- get your Fab 4 in a room and show them this video to first calm, then excite them
- begin every future recruitment with the clip and one question: Do you want to learn to wrestle like this?
Prior coaching experience be damned. Top kids will come. So will donors. You still may not get the recruits Cael wants, but you’ll certainly compete far better against DT’s pitch to the cream of what’s left. You’re welcome.
That said, I’m soooo glad Iowa won’t do it.
As I listed above, I don’t really love this idea, but it’s the absolute best one presented so far. Other than Carl or Cunningham there just isn’t another active coach I would think remotely moves the bar and I am just not one to just pick a great wrestler and hope for the best…
Beth will not let the wrestling program go down the same path they saw from the men's basketball program under Fran, I can't emphasize enough how much of a message all those empty seats last Friday night sent to the administration.
That's the issue. From my understanding Sanderson was given total control over the program and was doing pretty well at Iowa State prior to moving to PSU. Wrestling isn't football where there can be 10-20 coaches that might be an upgrade. Iowa wants the next legend and that's much more difficult to find.
I'll ask you: Was cael a PROVEN coach that would have been worthy of taking the Iowa job? Was gable a PROVEN coach prior to Iowa? Was John Smith? Name the PROVEN championship caliber coach who left to go to another program? I'm sure there's one out there but I can't think of him...
what you fail to take into account is IF Ok St continues to recruit the top HS athletes that means fewer for PS. which means fewer points for PS and more for Ok St. the point gap shrinks instead of just conceding to PS as you do.
Ryan is a paper tiger. Ok St will blow past them soon enough as well. tOSU has a solid lineup this year, but Mendez is the lynch pin and Davino is the only other one who is the real deal. Many of the other guys are a bit overrated (Bouzakis, Stiles, Cannon, Kharchla, Feldman, etc.) and are more like mid-AA ceiling guys, not muti-time champion contenders. The PSU-tOSU dual this year is going to look a lot like what PSU did to Iowa with the only difference being that they match up a bit better and have one guaranteed bonus weight at 141. tOSU will underperform their seeds at nationals while Ok St will overachieve (and may even pass them for 2nd in the end).
If you still had Endene, I'd actually probably have you favored to beat them next time. Credit to them for bringing the heat in the first match, but that was a perfect storm that will end up being their Super Bowl this season.
They also have a bunch of top 10 pfp 2027 recruits. Including #2, and will probably cherry pick of few of the best in 2028.
Taylor wasn't realistic to okst until he was.
Cael wasn't going to nudge aside his mentor Bobby Douglas until he did.
Cael wasn't going to leave his alma mater until he did.
Gable to Iowa from ISU etc...
The fact is no one knows what is "realistic" until you try.
And how did you transition from "I haven't seen any good plans" to bringing up Nolf whose name has been brought up easily a dozen times in various threads over the last few days? Lol, I'm starting to get it.
The fact is ALL had actually been coaches at successful programs. Smith was a coaching assistant at his Alma Mater and, coming off all those golds, the transition immediately made sense. Gable was a household name in Iowa and an assistant as well. Cael showed what he could do at ISU BEFORE PSU went all in on him.
I get that wrestling is such a fringe sport that top, proven coaches don’t grow on trees like they do in football or basketball, but I can’t imagine an AD pulling the trigger on a coach like Brands without a truly realistic amount of confidence that the replacement will make an almost immediate and substantial, positive impact…
they brought the heat all weekend, they attacked from the start in each match, I don't remember exactly but the avg time of their first TD in each dual was somewhere around 18-20 seconds.
Look at what PSU did in the 2025 class. They had the #1,2, 13 and 18. 1 of them already repped the senior world team and another made the finals. The top 3 have all won age level medals. When they want/need guys they get them and nearly all of them pan out.
In 2026, they landed Jayden James and he just beat Melvin Miller. Mind you, they are only graduating 1 starter this season and ALL the others have multiple years left with most having 2 or 3 left after this season…
In 2027, with all of the above, PSU STILL has the #2 in Sidun, #6 in Burnett and #10 in Mangan. OkState has the #7 and #9. Not only is PSU out recruiting them, so is Iowa.
OkState has a LONG way to go to be put in a tier above everyone but PSU, and the distance from there to actually joining PSU in that lofty, top tier is even further than that…
If you read, I didn’t say I like the Nolf plan. But, it is the ONLY one I would at least consider, if ALL the pieces came together perfectly. Something along the lines of associate head coach with Brands having an exit strategy in 2029. Give Nolf some time to get into the program and show what he can do. Only issue with that is what happens with Lee if the behind the scenes plan is for him to take over after 29?
Look, if you guys were plotting how to remove a bum, I wouldn’t be saying anything. Brands isn’t that. Not even close. To replace someone at that level, I want to KNOW as much as I possibly can that I am making a truly informed decision before pulling the trigger…
I don’t think it’s going to be nearly as hard as you think it is to replace Brands output as HC.
One great thing about this country is you are not only entitled to your opinion, but you are fully allowed to voice it openly….even if it is wrong!
Yep, one of the good things Iowa did at times when the NCAA's were close, they typically beat those close competitors head to head in the tournament, instead of waiting for others to do it for them.
Iowa had many years where that didn't matter, and PSU has certainly had their share where that didn't matter either. It would be nice if someone would apply some pressure on them, and I'd prefer that team was Iowa, but not looking good anytime soon.
So you only want "realistic" plans and you think having Tom mentor Jason Nolf to take over the program for the next 4 years is one of them? Bravo, you've officially dug your way to China.
Anyone who is making the argument that we don’t yet know IF David Taylor will be a great coach is a day late and a dollar short.
The foundation is already laid. With their current crop of freshman and their incoming recruits, they are the #2 program in the country regardless of whether they finish there this year or not. Disputing that is just not reality based.
The foundation is already laid. With their current crop of freshman and their incoming recruits, they are the #2 program in the country regardless of whether they finish there this year or not. Disputing that is just not reality based.
I agree there’s no guaranteed, generational-talent kind of coach waiting in the wings to save the program. But the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, and that feels like what Iowa wrestling is doing at the moment
The fact you believe wanting to have as much of a sure thing as possible, before firing the 2nd most successful coach of the last 20 years, is digging myself to China…welp, I don’t see much reason for us to discuss this any further.
Good luck and I hope you get what you wish for. Just remember, “Be careful what you wish for!”…