It's amazing how fast I've gone from cheering for lebron...

[lawdawg02]

To loathing him. Last year, he was the anti-Kobe. I hoped he'd take the throne from the lakers. This year, I wouldve gladly cheered for the lakers against the heat. I guess I'll be cheering for durant, dirk, Randolph, or rose. I'd take any of them.

That said, lebron is a damn good basketball player.

 

[lawdawg02]

To loathing him. Last year, he was the anti-Kobe. I hoped he'd take the throne from the lakers. This year, I wouldve gladly cheered for the lakers against the heat. I guess I'll be cheering for durant, dirk, Randolph, or rose. I'd take any of them.

That said, lebron is a damn good basketball player.

 

[thunderclap]

with all his boyfriends on the team.

 

[Hanmudog]

I have not hated a team as bad as I do the Heat since the Bad Boy Detroit teams. If the Mavs play like they did against the Lakers for the next two series then they should win it all.

 

[RebelBruiser]

If my team isn't playing, I like the villain.

I wish Lebron would embrace being hated even more than he does. Be the Miami Hurricanes of the 80s.

On that subject, you have to admit he was pretty awesome in sticking a fork in the Celtics all by himself late in the 4th.

 

[Seinfeld]

but he has 100% forfeited the chance to ever be mentioned with the greatest of all time in my book. He is one hell of a basketball player and I don't have an issue with him chasing a title, but in doing so, he told me that he had no faith in being able to continue to lead a team in Cleveland. He still has a lot of basketball left, but I can guarantee that I will never consider him with the likes of Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, or even Kobe. When those guys played, people left their teams to play with them. Not the other way around.

 

[Hanmudog]

It just looks like he pussed out and felt like he had to stack a team to get a title. Fair or not that is how it looks.

Granted Magic, Jordan, and Bird had good teams around them that they made into great teams. However, they tookabove averageplayerslike Danny Ainge, Byron Scott, Dennis Johnson, John Paxson, Horace Grant, and AC Green and made them look like superstars.</p>

 

[LR1400]

but he has 100% forfeited the chance to ever be mentioned with the greatest of all time in my book. He is one hell of a basketball player and I don't have an issue with him chasing a title, but in doing so, he told me that he had no faith in being able to continue to lead a team in Cleveland. He still has a lot of basketball left, but I can guarantee that I will never consider him with the likes of Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, or even Kobe. When those guys played, people left their teams to play with them. Not the other way around.

Please. I like him more now that he is acting like an *** like MJ and Kobe. They are and always will be dicks.

Every great teams has two hall of famers minimum. He and D.Wade are the only hall of famers on the team. Bosh is another Artest.

Lebron is

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

but he has 100% forfeited the chance to ever be mentioned with the greatest of all time in my book. He is one hell of a basketball player and I don't have an issue with him chasing a title, but in doing so, he told me that he had no faith in being able to continue to lead a team in Cleveland. He still has a lot of basketball left, but I can guarantee that I will never consider him with the likes of Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, or even Kobe. When those guys played, people left their teams to play with them. Not the other way around.

agreed. that and not going out stumping for cleveland to free agents. guys would call him up and ask if he was committed to cleveland long term and he'd be wishy washy about it, so obviously they'd sign elsewhere. then lebron acts like no one wants to come to cleveland so he had to leave. ***** please, if he'd shown some commitment and given the cavs the kinda deal d wade gave miami, they'd been about to at least sign a bosh or someone, or who knows what kinda players the previous couple years. <div>
</div><div>you force a trade/chase a title when you are 30+ (like malone and garnett and ray allen), not when you are 26. </div>

 

[hatfieldms]

...where the league is headed? This during your talk of the lakers going out to get Chris Paul and Dwight Howard?

 

[57stratdawg]

He bailed on Ohio for South Beach, who wouldn't do that? He wanted to win a championship. He's closer this year than every before.

I can't understand why people don't like to watch them. They play great D. They run and they're athletic. They play above the rim. They have a young coach. What's not to like?

Next year if Howard ends up at LA, I better see all these threads talking about how people can't stand him and how Howard sold out to win championships.

 

[hatfieldms]

Seriously though, people hat e the heat the same reason they hat the Yankees, and red Sox. It is pretty understandable

 

[GratefulDawg.sixpack]

He still has a lot of basketball left, but I can guarantee that I will never consider him with the likes of Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, or even Kobe. When those guys played, people left their teams to play with them. Not the other way around.

You may not be old enough to know that Kareen asked that the Milwaukee Bucks trade him to either New York or Los Angeles in 1975 because the city of Milwaukee did not meet his cultural needs.<div>
</div><div><a name="kareem">"Live in Milwaukee? No, I guess you could say I exist in Milwaukee," Abdul-Jabbar said in a early magazine interview. "I am a soldier hired for service and I will perform that service well. Basketball has given me a good life, but this town has nothing to do with my roots. There's no common ground."</a></div><div>
</div><div>http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/news/2001/05/30/sayitaintso_bucks/</div><div>
</div><div>Overall, I agree with you. I have hated the NBA since Jordan ruined it in the early '90s with his me-first style of play, but LeBron James took things much further with his narcissistic way of signing with Miami.</div>

 

[38843dawg]

You pretty much said it best Miami >>> Cleveland.

Also D. Wade >>>> Mo Williams. Any of you would have made the same choice. Boston started the "let's all get together to win a championship", and Miami followed, and soon so will Chris Paul going to NY and D. Howard for LA. Might as well get used to it, because that's how it's going to be. Any of you that really think that LeBron would have been able to get anyone he wants to come to Cleveland are in denial, it's 17ing Cleveland! Why go there when you have places like Miami, New York, LA, and etc. Also what makes any of you think that Cleveland would have dished out the bucks to get another superstar? They had a shot to make a splash last season during the season with a trade, and who do they get.....Antawn Jamison....yea that'll make Lebron think twice.

 

[Hanmudog]

...where the league is headed? This during your talk of the lakers going out to get Chris Paul and Dwight Howard?

I don't like it but its called "adapting to the situation".If everyone else is doing it then you have no choice. Until the NBA stops it, that is the way things are going to be.

I do not fault LeBron for going to Miami if he wanted to win a title. Idon't like the way he did it with the one hour TV special and him being a completeself absorbed prick the entire time. However, like was said earlier, he will never be known as the "greatest ever" because of this move.

Imagine if Jordan split the Bulls early on before they won a title and then went to Los Angeles to play with Magic Johnson. Do you think everyone would stillagree that he was the greatest ever?

 

[hatfieldms]

Will you feel the same way about Chris Paul and/or Dwight Howard if they end up with the Lakers?

 

[Hanmudog]

Will you feel the same way about Chris Paul and/or Dwight Howard if they end up with the Lakers?

Chris Paul and Dwight Howard and not in the discussion for the greatest player of all time. That is my point. Players move around all the time to try and win titles. It is no big deal unless you want to be considered the best of all time. Now answer my question about Jordan.

 

[38843dawg]

Will you feel the same way about Chris Paul and/or Dwight Howard if they end up with the Lakers?

Chris Paul and Dwight Howard and not in the discussion for the greatest player of all time. That is my point. Players move around all the time to try and win titles. It is no big deal unless you want to be considered the best of all time. Now answer my question about Jordan.

Jordan actually got Scottie Pippen after a few years, and Pippen turned out to be a top 50 all-time player. Who's the best player LeBron played with while in Cleveland? An aging out of shape Shaq, or Mo Williams?

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

He bailed on Ohio for South Beach, who wouldn't do that?

don't ***** when we can't recruit good players to msu then becuase they all wanna go play for schools in exotic locals and bigger towns and cities.<div>
</div><div>i mean he could live in miami or nyc or la in the offseason, and during the season he is on the road half the time partying in different cities, so it's not like his lifestyle really changed all that much.
<div>
</div><div>not to mention the cavs are lebron's "hometown" team. poor cavs should have seen it coming though, it's been readily apparent lebron is a lame *** frontrunner after wearing yankees gear to the indians-yankees playoff matchup a few years ago and being a big cowboys fan.</div> </div>

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

Will you feel the same way about Chris Paul and/or Dwight Howard if they end up with the Lakers?

to an extent. however chris paul and dwight howard haven't been touted as the next greatest player ever either. since he was 15 we've heard about lebron and his greatness. we watched his HS games on espn. he had all the tools and the body of a man, not a teen. he came straight to the nba from HS and immediately was an impact player. then instead of going out and convincing free agents to take pay cuts and join him, he is wishy washy about his future and basically scares off the best free agents because he was non-committal. and all this for hsi hometown team. lebron just doesn't/didn't/never will have the mental toughness of jordan or magic or bird or isiah or kobe. he needed d wade to be the mental toughness for him, and that's why he'll just go down as a great player and not anywhere near the greatest player. just feels like we, as sports fans, have been cheated out of a player reaching all-time greatness levels, and not due to injuries, but due to his own reluctance to develop the necessary mental toughness.<div>
</div><div>paul and howard are pretty great players, and if they stay healthy, they are future hall of famers, but they aren't even close to best player ever discussions. and thsi move lowered lebron to their level. i just feel like i've been touting a fraud this whole time as the "next best player ever" and this move was lebron lowering the ceiling of his potential. if he's fine with that, then fine, i can't stop him, but i can hate on him for being weak mentally.</div>

 

[57stratdawg]

went to the Boys and Girls Club of America. Funny how no one seems to remember that.

The NBA isn't going to do anything to 'stop it'. The fact is that teams with multiple stars are good for the NBA. The NBA would be better off if they had about 5 less teams and guys like Danny Granger, Chris Paul, and Blake Griffin played for major market teams.

As far as LeBron being the best all time, who knows. I'd make the case that the best all time all seem to have Phil Jackson as their head coach, that seems kind of strange to me. James is going to own every scorning record the NBA has when he retires. All that's stopping him from getting in that discussion is winning a couple championships, which is why he went to Miami in the first place.

 

[Hanmudog]

Will you feel the same way about Chris Paul and/or Dwight Howard if they end up with the Lakers?

Chris Paul and Dwight Howard and not in the discussion for the greatest player of all time. That is my point. Players move around all the time to try and win titles. It is no big deal unless you want to be considered the best of all time. Now answer my question about Jordan.

Jordan actually got Scottie Pippen after a few years, and Pippen turned out to be a top 50 all-time player. Who's the best player LeBron played with while in Cleveland? An aging out of shape Shaq, or Mo Williams?

Remember back when Jordan scored 63 points and they still lost the game?Jordan had Artis Gilmore and Dave Corzine for a frontcourt at first. The Bulls were not very good early on. That is my point. If he had bailed earlyand gone to a team with another superstar like Magic, Bird, Isiah, or Olajuwon thenhe would not now be thought of asunquestionably the greatest of all time.

 

[jakldawg]

LeBron is just about 45 years ahead of the curve, though.

 

[Seinfeld]

and you're correct. I was well aware that Jabbar had been a Buck at one time, but I never knew the details of the trade to LA. In reading that, though, I feel like it even further pushes my point. Both LeBron and Kareem demanded trades from their original teams, but the similarities seem to stop there. While getting to go to South Beach was a nice consolation prize, LeBron has gone on record as saying that he left Cleveland because he could simply not get it done there. In Kareem's situation, however, not only was he able to get it done in Milwaukee with a championship but per the article, he took the Bucks to Game 7 of the finals the season before he demanded his trade to either NY or LA.

Kareem's move seems to truly be a "cultural" move whereas LeBron's move was all about his inability to lead a team to a championship so he he had to find more star power elsewhere. I hold nothing against LeBron for making that decision and I still think he's one of the best players in the current game, but I will never remember him as one of the all time legends following this move.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

1) lebron has enough money to just write a check to the boys and girls club or donate a few appearance fees to the boys and girls club, no need to have amasturbatoryhour on espn<div>
</div><div>2) we'll see where lebron stands scoring wise. it all depends on how long he plays. total points is kinda an iffy measure though. i think ppg is a much more accurate measure.</div><div>
</div><div>3) any ring he wins in miami is gonna be viewed as a ring. ho hum. a ring in cleveland would have been viewed as a remarkable accomplishment, even if he went out to recruit his "scottie pippen". a ring in cleveland would probably carry the same prestige as 3 or 4 rings with d wade's miami heat.</div><div>
</div><div>4) in today's instant internet linked world, there is no need to be in a "major market" to be a superstar. furthermore, miami isn't a traditional franchise or a major market, they just have 70 degree weather in january. miami has worse fans than cleveland. how is it good for a league to push their stars to exotic locals with crappy fans and leave the true fans stuck in cleveland or detroit or indianapolis without anything worth cheering for? the miami "fans" will forget about basketball when d wade and lebron move on, maybe even before they move on. </div><div>
</div><div>at this point, lotto teams (1) better hope they hit the jackpot (blake griffih, lebron, duncan) or find a diamond later (kobe, dirk) and then (2) immediately do whatever they can to build around them immediately because they know that once the player becomes an unrestricted free agent he's bolting for nyc. oklahoma city needs to pull out the stops now. yeah durant got lauded for signign the extension,b ut it was the saem extension lebron signed. and durant couldn't even really leave being he was a restricted free agent. the real test of loyalty comes in a couple of years. </div>

 

[hatfieldms]

Answer my question, if they both decided to join Kobe in LA, would you consider them pussing out for going to a large market team, and joining kobe so they could win a title?

 

[Hanmudog]

Answer my question, if they both decided to join Kobe in LA, would you consider them pussing out for going to a large market team, and joining kobe so they could win a title?

Answer: No. Now if Jordan leftbefore he won a title in Chicagoto go play with Kareem and Magic and averaged only about 23ppg would you call him the greatest of all time? What if he went to play with Bird and McHale?

You are completely missing my point. Like I said, players leave teams all the time to go and win titles. No big deal. However, LeBron has always been touted as potentially the best ever. Howard and Paul have not. They are not on LeBron's level. I am talking about in 15-20 years when people are discussing the greatest of all time, going to Miami will hurt LeBron's chances of being in that discussion. Fair or not that is the way it will be.