Its Ugly NO DOUBT, but look at the roster

[Volatility_rivals135605]

Its definitely horrible to watch, but the past two weeks has been the two games where we have played equal to the talent on the roster.

Our QB didnt have a single P5 offer.
Our OL are mostly Fresh & Soph
We have NO DEPTH at RB(Not yet)
We have decent WR's, but they cant make a big impact when the only route your QB will throw is a Slant

Before you form an opinion about the staff, look at the roster. 2 years is not enough time to resolve it.

Im not sure what the Time Out issue was at the start of the game, curious to hear why Neal was upset with Refs. Also curious to know why Neal did not call a TO near end of half to try to at least squeeze a FG out of that last possession.

Its definitely ugly, it looks representative of the 60th or so best team(Roster recruiting ratings) vs a 4-1 team. The issue is the best talent on the team are Redshirt Freshmen & True Freshmen or Soph, aside from a few in the 2018 class...

The one issue I have:

No matter how limited or talented your roster may be, you still want to see your team exude heart, fortitude, & determination. The effort I saw was depressingly low. Almost like the Defense said, "ya know, it cant always be on me, im gonna sit back until the other side does their share", and the other side said, "Ahh guys, Im not feeling it today either"...

The Effort displayed is what is concerning. Lets see how they come out and play in the second half. We all know this season is a wash, so I hope Brown gives GReene the team and builds for next year. Considering all of Doege's limitations, and the only route he can throw is a Slant, if we are going to lose, at least do it in a way that builds a foundation for next year.

#FREEGREENE

 

[MountaineerWV]

So we are the only team to have these issues?

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

Its definitely horrible to watch, but the past two weeks has been the two games where we have played equal to the talent on the roster.

Our QB didnt have a single P5 offer.
Our OL are mostly Fresh & Soph
We have NO DEPTH at RB(Not yet)
We have decent WR's, but they cant make a big impact when the only route your QB will throw is a Slant

Before you form an opinion about the staff, look at the roster. 2 years is not enough time to resolve it.

Im not sure what the Time Out issue was at the start of the game, curious to hear why Neal was upset with Refs. Also curious to know why Neal did not call a TO near end of half to try to at least squeeze a FG out of that last possession.

Its definitely ugly, it looks representative of the 60th or so best team(Roster recruiting ratings) vs a 4-1 team. The issue is the best talent on the team are Redshirt Freshmen & True Freshmen or Soph, aside from a few in the 2018 class...

The one issue I have:

No matter how limited or talented your roster may be, you still want to see your team exude heart, fortitude, & determination. The effort I saw was depressingly low. Almost like the Defense said, "ya know, it cant always be on me, im gonna sit back until the other side does their share", and the other side said, "Ahh guys, Im not feeling it today either"...

The Effort displayed is what is concerning. Lets see how they come out and play in the second half. We all know this season is a wash, so I hope Brown gives GReene the team and builds for next year. Considering all of Doege's limitations, and the only route he can throw is a Slant, if we are going to lose, at least do it in a way that builds a foundation for next year.

#FREEGREENE

We are regressing from last year which does not bode well. We are also not playing to the strengths we do have. Not too keen on a system that is so rigid that you have to have exact athletes to execute it.

 

[VaultHunter]

Lol. It's a rope with 1 strand left hanging on. Some are gonna keep hold of it until the end. Might as well let them, they don't matter.

 

[WVU80ate_rivals]

We are regressing from last year which does not bode well. We are also not playing to the strengths we do have. Not too keen on a system that is so rigid that you have to have exact athletes to execute it.

It sure was worth it for Shane Lyons and Gordon Gee to dismiss the best DC (Koenning) we’ve had here in decades for a sensitive cry baby from Charleston.

 

[MountaineerWV]

It sure was worth it for Shane Lyons and Gordon Gee to dismiss the best DC (Koenning) we’ve had here in decades for a sensitive cry baby from Charleston.

Come on man. The defense has been good until today. This is on Brown.

 

[WVU80ate_rivals]

Come on man. The defense has been good until today. This is on Brown.

Oh I agree. I’m just still pissed at how that situation went down

 

[spreadoption_rivals80969]

In the era of the transfer portal and extra year of eligibility you should be able to rebuild your roster rapidly, if you know what you’re doing and can recruit. That’s huge if for this clueless coaching staff.

 

[WVUALLEN]

There is no climb. It's more like hanging on by finger nail. Baylor will lose 5 of final 6 games. Makes this butt kicking look even worse.

 

[Volatility_rivals135605]

In the era of the transfer portal and extra year of eligibility you should be able to rebuild your roster rapidly, if you know what you’re doing and can recruit. That’s huge if for this clueless coaching staff.

Brown's second class had the Highest average player rating in WVU history. Brown's 3rd class is currently ranked 24th. Recruiting is a strength of Brown, its not easy to do at WVU, but he is outperforming in that dept.

He has used the portal to attract quality players, hes trying to build it the right way, through mainly using HS with portal "fill-ins", which creates a more consistent foundation. It just takes longer to pay off, but offers a higher ROI.

The offensive limitations are no secret. Teams dont respect Doeges feet, they dont respect his arm, and they know every pass will be a slant. Thats literally the best scenario for DC's... We have a young (but talented) OL...

NOBODY is fooled by any of our "mis direction", DC's know we Doege cant run, he cant pass, and if so it;ll be a slant, so they play Leddie hard... Frankly its easy to defend, because its EXTREMELY limited.

No Doubt today was UGLY, and it would seem the offense has regressed, but I think its because DC's are not biting on any mis-direction...

I think Greene actually opens up the running game. My biggest issue is Brown not playing Greene more, specifically he should have played practically the entire second half...

If we are going to lose, at least make it a "productive" loss...

 

[spreadoption_rivals80969]

Moral victories, that’s what the program was been reduced to shooting for.

 

[WVU80ate_rivals]

Brown's second class had the Highest average player rating in WVU history. Brown's 3rd class is currently ranked 24th. Recruiting is a strength of Brown, its not easy to do at WVU, but he is outperforming in that dept.

He has used the portal to attract quality players, hes trying to build it the right way, through mainly using HS with portal "fill-ins", which creates a more consistent foundation. It just takes longer to pay off, but offers a higher ROI.

The offensive limitations are no secret. Teams dont respect Doeges feet, they dont respect his arm, and they know every pass will be a slant. Thats literally the best scenario for DC's... We have a young (but talented) OL...

NOBODY is fooled by any of our "mis direction", DC's know we Doege cant run, he cant pass, and if so it;ll be a slant, so they play Leddie hard... Frankly its easy to defend, because its EXTREMELY limited.

No Doubt today was UGLY, and it would seem the offense has regressed, but I think its because DC's are not biting on any mis-direction...

I think Greene actually opens up the running game. My biggest issue is Brown not playing Greene more, specifically he should have played practically the entire second half...

If we are going to lose, at least make it a "productive" loss...

Greene definitely should not be starting. And that’s not a compliment to Doege. He’s essentially a generic failed wanna be version of Pat White. Take the snap and run. It worked in 2005-2007. It does not work today. Sadly, Doege is our best chance

 

[spreadoption_rivals80969]

If recruiting is HCNB’s strength … we’ll, maybe it is. After all, coaching sure isn’t his strength.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Greene definitely should not be starting. And that’s not a compliment to Doege. He’s essentially a generic failed wanna be version of Pat White. Take the snap and run. It worked in 2005-2007. It does not work today. Sadly, Doege is our best chance

Goose needs to get a look. But afraid he would be demoralized by the poor O-Line.

 

[OlegeezEER]

I know depth is a problem but building it back up seems like it may be a bigger problem with this stupid transfer portal. Guys just leave if they can't get on to the field early. Guys leave even if they are starting. I knew we were thin in the secondary but losing smith and miller was a blow. People can say they aren't doing much for Georgia and auburn but they contributed for us. Its not like we can fill in holes by poaching blue bloods. Its the other way around. As long as the current portal rules are in effect its going to be tough for wvu and programs like us to build depth.

 

[Volatility_rivals135605]

MAc Jones sit, matured, developed, & learned for practically 3 YEARS before he took a snap as QB1 at Alabama. Even after sitting for 2.5 years, learning & developing from the best staff & resources, with 4-5 star players 2 deep at every position, even still his 1st year was not great at all. Even with optimal conditions and 2.5 YEARS to develop, it still took him 1 full season under center before he found consistency.

Greene is a redshirt Freshmen with his TF year being shortened from COVID, in an offense not designed for him, with an OL of mostly Fresh & Soph

To think Greene wont become a quality QB is extremely premature... Brown has said multiple times its very difficult to implement two different offenses, the way I look at it... Its like putting Pat White in a Jeff Mullen offense. How many times do you hear coaches talk about their job is to put their players in the best position possible to be successful? That is literally the opposite of that... While subtle alterations are made for Greene, its hardly customized for him. Not to mention, no matter how great a QB/WR/RB may be, if you have a young OL, its gonna be a long season. While I do think our OL are talented, they are FAR from reaching their Collegiate potential.

 

[OlegeezEER]

MAc Jones sit, matured, developed, & learned for practically 3 YEARS before he took a snap as QB1 at Alabama. Even after sitting for 2.5 years, learning & developing from the best staff & resources, with 4-5 star players 2 deep at every position, even still his 1st year was not great at all. Even with optimal conditions and 2.5 YEARS to develop, it still took him 1 full season under center before he found consistency.

Greene is a redshirt Freshmen with his TF year being shortened from COVID, in an offense not designed for him, with an OL of mostly Fresh & Soph

To think Greene wont become a quality QB is extremely premature... Brown has said multiple times its very difficult to implement two different offenses, the way I look at it... Its like putting Pat White in a Jeff Mullen offense. How many times do you hear coaches talk about their job is to put their players in the best position possible to be successful? That is literally the opposite of that... While subtle alterations are made for Greene, its hardly customized for him. Not to mention, no matter how great a QB/WR/RB may be, if you have a young OL, its gonna be a long season. While I do think our OL are talented, they are FAR from reaching their Collegiate potential.

Greene is too small He was initially listed as 6'0 now they have him at 5'10 and some even question that. He is what 170lb?- 180?. He is a good change of pace guy and can be utilized we some special packages but he is not an every down starter in the big 12. Outside of the D line this team has problems pretty much across the board.

 

[Volatility_rivals135605]

Greene is too small He was initially listed as 6'0 now they have him at 5'10 and some even question that. He is what 170lb?- 180?. He is a good change of pace guy and can be utilized we some special packages but he is not an every down starter in the big 12. Outside of the D line this team has problems pretty much across the board.

Height does not matter when you have a diverse skillset. Baker Mayfield, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Drew Brees.... There have been many more great Collegiate QBs that wasnt 6'6.

He should add weight and get stronger, but he has a strong arm, one of many compliments of his by Elite11 analysts. He should not be on field now. Under normal WVU roster conditions, he should still be in the developmental program. RedhShirt Freshmen is very young, Pat White was 1 of none.

Our offensive issues are multi factorial. OL youth, Significant QB limitations, RB depth, etc.

I think Greene has the intangibles, the Moxy you want in your QB, he just needs more time with a more mature OL and an offensive scheme designed for him.

I think he will become a much better version of Skyler Howard, hes much faster, and with a better arm. Just has to learn how to read coverages and time to find his rhythm

 

[MountaineerWV]

Greene is too small He was initially listed as 6'0 now they have him at 5'10 and some even question that. He is what 170lb?- 180?. He is a good change of pace guy and can be utilized we some special packages but he is not an every down starter in the big 12. Outside of the D line this team has problems pretty much across the board.

Murray at OU was too small, too. Right?

 

[OlegeezEER]

Murray at OU was too small, too. Right?

Oklahoma is a blue blood they have a great offensive line good receivers and good running backs. Greene also struggles with accuracy. Comparing Greene to Murray is apples to oranges if you can't see that get an eye exam.

 

[Volatility_rivals135605]

Oklahoma is a blue blood they have a great offensive line good receivers and good running backs. Greene also struggles with accuracy. Comparing Greene to Murray is apples to oranges if you can't see that get an eye exam.

How many years did Murray develop before starting at OU? 2015 TAM, 2016 Sit out transfer year & learn OU's offense, 2017 QB2 to Baker, 2018 Starter

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

How many years did Murray develop before starting at OU? 2015 TAM, 2016 Sit out transfer year & learn OU's offense, 2017 QB2 to Baker, 2018 Starter

You have 2 good QBs, you play the best one. If they are equivalent, play the senior of the 2. If you have 2 bad QBs play the one that gives you the best chance of a winning season. If neither gives you much of a chance, play the one most likely to contribute next year. Even if it's a true freshman.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Comparing Greene to Murray. Pretty hilarious.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Oklahoma is a blue blood they have a great offensive line good receivers and good running backs. Greene also struggles with accuracy. Comparing Greene to Murray is apples to oranges if you can't see that get an eye exam.

Oh, so "small" is just "too small" if you aren't one of the "Blue Bloods"? Wow. Excuses.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Comparing Greene to Murray. Pretty hilarious.

Not understanding there was no comparison other than SIZE.....even funnier.

 

[OlegeezEER]

How many years did Murray develop before starting at OU? 2015 TAM, 2016 Sit out transfer year & learn OU's offense, 2017 QB2 to Baker, 2018 Starter

Well thats the point Murray was behind Mayfield. Oklahoma had Mayfield who made it to the nfl and Murray did as well. But Doege is not Mayfield and Greene isn't Murray.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Well thats the point Murray was behind Mayfield. Oklahoma had Mayfield who made it to the nfl and Murray did as well. But Doege is Mayfield and Greene isn't Murray.

Greene is not the answer nor is Doege. Before anything gets fixed an OLine needs to be in place.

 

[OlegeezEER]

Oh, so "small" is just "too small" if you aren't one of the "Blue Bloods"? Wow. Excuses.

Look at Murray's throwing ability compared to Greene's. Pretty much night an day

 

[OlegeezEER]

Greene is not the answer nor is Doege. Before anything gets fixed an OLine needs to be in place.

Agreed but you have that crowd that always thinks the back up qb is the answer until its proven otherwise. Wvu needs Oline man that can deliver pancake blocks the same guys that open up holes that semi trucks can get through. Don't have anything close to resembling that at this time.

 

[Rootmaster]

Greene is not the answer nor is Doege. Before anything gets fixed an OLine needs to be in place.

You don't have a clue. Now have another beer...huff and puff...let the drool roll off your chin and respond.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Agreed but you have that crowd that always thinks the back up qb is the answer until its proven otherwise. Wvu needs Oline man that can deliver pancake blocks the same guys that open up holes that semi trucks can get through. Don't have anything close to resembling that at this time.

And a new Oline coach might be the answer might not be.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Look at Murray's throwing ability compared to Greene's. Pretty much night an day

That wasn't the argument. The argument was Greene was "too small". Then suddenly it switched to that OU was one of the "Blue Bloods" with "better talent around Murray". Now it's about throwing ability. Dang. Talk about moving the goal posts.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Agreed but you have that crowd that always thinks the back up qb is the answer until its proven otherwise. Wvu needs Oline man that can deliver pancake blocks the same guys that open up holes that semi trucks can get through. Don't have anything close to resembling that at this time.

Tell me again, what is it called to keep doing the same thing over and over again, thinking it will give you different results? Oh....it's INSANITY. We've been running Doege out there over and over again, seeing the same thing. Maybe something different will spark the team? Maybe it won't. But if you never try, you'll never know. Besides, we have nothing to play for other than 6 wins. And that is unlikely.

 

[OlegeezEER]

That wasn't the argument. The argument was Greene was "too small". Then suddenly it switched to that OU was one of the "Blue Bloods" with "better talent around Murray". Now it's about throwing ability. Dang. Talk about moving the goal posts.

Im not moving anything you were the one that brought Murray up. Are you suggesting that Greene is as Good of an athletic as Murray? The bottom line is Murray is better than Greene in every facet there is no comparison. Murray can make throws with accuracy something Greene hasn't shown. That's kinda of important in a qb don't you think. There are guys playing for Blue bloods that aren't the best but when you play with better players around you they make you look better.

 

[Rootmaster]

Kneel Clown is the only problem this team has. The fatal flaw.

 

[OlegeezEER]

Tell me again, what is it called to keep doing the same thing over and over again, thinking it will give you different results? Oh....it's INSANITY. We've been running Doege out there over and over again, seeing the same thing. Maybe something different will spark the team? Maybe it won't. But if you never try, you'll never know. Besides, we have nothing to play for other than 6 wins. And that is unlikely.

How long do you think its going to take for opposing defense's to figure out Greenes fake hand off to the RB. The guy isn't anymore the answer than doege is. There is no answer at qb at the moment.

 

[OlegeezEER]

Greene definitely should not be starting. And that’s not a compliment to Doege. He’s essentially a generic failed wanna be version of Pat White. Take the snap and run. It worked in 2005-2007. It does not work today. Sadly, Doege is our best chance

If Greene did start how many games do you think it would be before they are screaming for the next guy? I give the over under at 3

 

[MountaineerWV]

Im not moving anything you were the one that brought Murray up. Are you suggesting that Greene is as Good of an athletic as Murray? The bottom line is Murray is better than Greene in every facet there is no comparison. Murray can make throws with accuracy something Greene hasn't shown. That's kinda of important in a qb don't you think. There are guys playing for Blue bloods that aren't the best but when you play with better players around you they make you look better.

This was your post......

"Greene is too small He was initially listed as 6'0 now they have him at 5'10 and some even question that. He is what 170lb?- 180?. He is a good change of pace guy and can be utilized we some special packages but he is not an every down starter in the big 12. Outside of the D line this team has problems pretty much across the board."

You never stated anything other than his size as the key factor for him not playing. Then, after I brought up another small QB (Murray), you tried to move the point to skill, not size, which voids your initial post that Greene is "too small".

 

[MountaineerWV]

How long do you think its going to take for opposing defense's to figure out Greenes fake hand off to the RB. The guy isn't anymore the answer than doege is. There is no answer at qb at the moment.

I don't know.....but it would be nice to give it a try and see if it will be worse than 2-4, and WINLESS in the Big 12.

 

[OlegeezEER]

This was your post......

"Greene is too small He was initially listed as 6'0 now they have him at 5'10 and some even question that. He is what 170lb?- 180?. He is a good change of pace guy and can be utilized we some special packages but he is not an every down starter in the big 12. Outside of the D line this team has problems pretty much across the board."

You never stated anything other than his size as the key factor for him not playing. Then, after I brought up another small QB (Murray), you tried to move the point to skill, not size, which voids your initial post that Greene is "too small".

With the attributes he brings he is . He dosen't have the the athletic ability that Murray does. Once again are you suggesting that Murray and Greene are apples to apples?