It's year 5 for Cohen - when he was hired...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
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I also figured we would be better offensively. We are weak at 3B. We have had 4 guys play 3B for us and no one can win the job because they cannot hit. 1B and 3B are power positions and our 1B is the only one that can hit it deep and he has a long swing and cannot hit inside pitches.
When he was hired, I definitely expected to be back to Omaha by year 5.
It didn't take long into year 1 to see just how bad Polk had left it, so I had to reassess. I also expected to be an more of an offensive team. I think the new bats caused Cohen to completely change the way he recruited and made him think he could outsmart his way back to the CWS.
It didn't take long into year 1 to see just how bad Polk had left it, so I had to reassess. I also expected to be an more of an offensive team. I think the new bats caused Cohen to completely change the way he recruited and made him think he could outsmart his way back to the CWS.
I expected Cohen to he fired and by that point Showalter had given up on being a 2 year hero in the majors, setting it up perfectly for him to come take over in 2013. I'm completely kidding.
Or am I?
Truthfully, I was one of the asses who thought he would have been gone by now. I didn't think the Polk thing would die down like it did, and a friend's dad is a hotshot in the MLB and won't have anything to do with MSU because he hates Cohen (I use this to say I know that a ton of people don't like him, including players). Add those to the fact that Polk left him with a bad roster I expected a Croom-type hire and fire. He's done just enough to make me eat crow, but honestly it hasn't been fun to watch.
Or am I?
Truthfully, I was one of the asses who thought he would have been gone by now. I didn't think the Polk thing would die down like it did, and a friend's dad is a hotshot in the MLB and won't have anything to do with MSU because he hates Cohen (I use this to say I know that a ton of people don't like him, including players). Add those to the fact that Polk left him with a bad roster I expected a Croom-type hire and fire. He's done just enough to make me eat crow, but honestly it hasn't been fun to watch.
After year one, I had to reassess as well. I've been taking it year-by-year ever since. I was ready to fire Cohen had he not made the SEC tournament/Regionals in year 3. Year 4 was good, SEC Tournament Championship. I expected to host this season. Still a possibility but they need to turn it around starting this week.
Hard to say...
I definitely wanted to be back in Omaha by now. Whether that's realistic or not, I don't really know. The SEC is as strong as it's ever been, and so is college baseball in general around the country. It is far tougher to make it there than it was back in the 80s and 90s. I still don't think he's been able to get all the pieces he wants, and he's stuck in between doing what he wants versus doing what the talent he has allows.
I do think we are now treating college baseball like football and basketball (with regards to coaches), and it's foolish for all sports. Consistent winning (not necessarily at national championship levels) has almost become a sign that a coach can't get it done. I guess I'll go genes page-ish in that I'll be patient and happy that the atmosphere is back and we're getting closer.
I definitely wanted to be back in Omaha by now. Whether that's realistic or not, I don't really know. The SEC is as strong as it's ever been, and so is college baseball in general around the country. It is far tougher to make it there than it was back in the 80s and 90s. I still don't think he's been able to get all the pieces he wants, and he's stuck in between doing what he wants versus doing what the talent he has allows.
I do think we are now treating college baseball like football and basketball (with regards to coaches), and it's foolish for all sports. Consistent winning (not necessarily at national championship levels) has almost become a sign that a coach can't get it done. I guess I'll go genes page-ish in that I'll be patient and happy that the atmosphere is back and we're getting closer.
I was expecting to host a Super by this point, or after 5 seasons I should say. I remember after Cohens first year one of our better players that year (Whose name I cannot remember right now sorry) told a friend of mine that he couldnt stand Cohen and a lot of the players couldnt stand him, BUT that there was no doubt he would bring a NC to Starkville before his career was over. That's always kinda stuck with me.
Plus I like Cohen and I think despite some of his questionable decisions I think he gives us a great shot at a NC. Moreso than any other coach does for their sport at MSU. He and Pete Young were my favorites growing up (was too young to remember 1985-1986 seasons FYI, but I was in attendance) so be aware I am also a bit partial.
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I expected us to start to realize MSU baseball is no longer, nor will it ever likely be again, a big fish in a small pond. We can win here, but I don't see a stretch where we make four trips to Omaha in five years or something.
Connor Power/Powers? He's not the only player who's said stuff like that, and if I remember right I think he was also the one telling recruits not to come here. If true not cool, but to this day, even with a completely different roster, people I've talked to on the team don't necessarily like him either. What they did tell me though is they feel like he realized none of the players like him and has been really cool August 2012-present.
If we aren't competitive in a regional this year I won't be upset if he's gone. Hopefully this is just a very bad slump.
Hosting a regional. That's about it. I had a bad feeling that what Ron left behind plus his attempts to sabotage the program would take a while to build up/repair. The SR trip in year 3 was a nice surprise, and last year met my original expectations. Now it's time for us to be back in the top 16....and we're so dang close.
By year 5, I expected to be a solid regional host/superregional program that would contend for the CWS. Pitching and defense is a little better than I expected. We're a lot worse at the plate than I expected though. We're still recruiting way too many 5'9" 160 lb. punch and judy hitters just like Polk III did.
Hosting a regional. However I'm not going to get upset if we fall 3 games short of it. We're right where we need to be and are improving every year. Our recruiting is getting better every year. We're pretty much getting who we want. We'll get there.
HOWEVER, I do not think our crowds will ever truly come back until we're hosting the postseason stuff again. That's what gets people fired up to come to the ballpark, and what carries over to the subsequent years.
HOWEVER, I do not think our crowds will ever truly come back until we're hosting the postseason stuff again. That's what gets people fired up to come to the ballpark, and what carries over to the subsequent years.
Man, you are WAY off. Polk was the one who left us all those hitters in 2009 and 2010 but no pitching (which consequently led to blowout losses). Punch and judy was not his game.
Simply put, we're not getting $600K worth. That is a lot of cheese for a baseball coach, even these days. As I have said several times lately, I will concede the top few spots in the SEC to LSU, UF and USC. But falling in behind UM, Vandy, UK and Ark. really irks me. That is totally unacceptable and we should not have to put up with it. I felt hosting by year 4 or 5 was a very reasonable expectation. Guess I was wrong again.
Interesting that our resident experts coach34 and dawgpoot@auburn are silent. I guess the criteria is much tougher for basketball but we sure as hell aren't getting $600,000 worth. Even scarier is if this regime hires a replacement. MSU fans are not stupid and they aren't going to flock to the stands to see a mediocre product.
Only teams we should concede anything to are LSU and Carolina. UF, UM, VU, UK and Ark should not be considered better programs than us at this point. You could make a case for UF, since they have as many Omaha appearances as us and reached the Championship a few times, and Georgia, who's actually won the thing once. The rest? Absolutely not.
One more run to Omaha by us and we're ahead of Florida again.
One more run to Omaha by us and we're ahead of Florida again.
I expected to be winning more of our conference series and hosting regionals. It was obvious the cupboard was bare but Cohen's recruiting ability was supposed to take care of that. His reputation as a hitting coach also had me expecting a much more productive offense. I do see improvement but not at the rate I had hoped for.
I disagree. I think he would love their board. It would be a great place to amass a 15,000 post-count with posts about Cohen having plateaued as a coach and arguing that while he is a good recruiter, he is too poor of an in-game coach to make it out of a super regional .
Bingo.
Sleeping. 17'n. Giant.
The day they decide they actually care about winning and want to invest, they will wreck **** in baseball from that moment forward. If they just effectively recruit a 1 hour radius of that campus, they consistently play for national titles...
To answer this original question, I don't think there is any doubt that we are almost unanimously behind where we thought(hoped) we'd be. Maybe not far behind depending on how this year shakes out -- but behind.
Things I didn't realize at that time that came into focus pretty quickly:
- The extent with which Polk had neglected recruiting. The incoming class when Cohen was hired gave us a total of 3 contributors: Caleb Reed, Nick Routt, and Devin Jones...
- The extent to which Polk's little outburst had(truly) sabotaged the program in a deep and longterm way...
- The extent to which we had become a total national and SEC afterthought...
People need to realize that the freshman class currently enrolled(which was a really small class) was the FIRST class that we'd recruited and signed coming off a successful season and winning record -- and the first ones that had seen us win in their highschool careers(and not win big either). That was the first class that had the benefit of KNOWING that Cohen had turned things around... The rest of these guys were recruited by hard work of our coaches -- with no guarantees or assumptions. Looking at things from that perspective makes our JR and SO recruiting classes amazing really.
Now, we are back to winning. Maybe not at the level that we'd like -- but much better than before. The MSU baseball fanbase monster is starting to awaken. People are coming back. Program is starting to sell itself again. The ball is just now starting to really roll...
Look at the 2013 recruiting class -- and what is already committed for 2014 and 2015. Talent is consistently being upgraded for us -- and winning big is still on the horizon IMO -- and I'm not even close to ready to give up on this season yet...
Things I didn't realize at that time that came into focus pretty quickly:
- The extent with which Polk had neglected recruiting. The incoming class when Cohen was hired gave us a total of 3 contributors: Caleb Reed, Nick Routt, and Devin Jones...
- The extent to which Polk's little outburst had(truly) sabotaged the program in a deep and longterm way...
- The extent to which we had become a total national and SEC afterthought...
People need to realize that the freshman class currently enrolled(which was a really small class) was the FIRST class that we'd recruited and signed coming off a successful season and winning record -- and the first ones that had seen us win in their highschool careers(and not win big either). That was the first class that had the benefit of KNOWING that Cohen had turned things around... The rest of these guys were recruited by hard work of our coaches -- with no guarantees or assumptions. Looking at things from that perspective makes our JR and SO recruiting classes amazing really.
Now, we are back to winning. Maybe not at the level that we'd like -- but much better than before. The MSU baseball fanbase monster is starting to awaken. People are coming back. Program is starting to sell itself again. The ball is just now starting to really roll...
Look at the 2013 recruiting class -- and what is already committed for 2014 and 2015. Talent is consistently being upgraded for us -- and winning big is still on the horizon IMO -- and I'm not even close to ready to give up on this season yet...
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Pitching as good or maybe better than i expected.
Hitting is very disappointing. This was supposed to be Cohen's strong point, yet in year 5 we are weak at the plate.
Base running is beyond disappointing. Foolish is the best word i can use to describe it. We take ridiculous chances on the base paths and it hasn't improved one bit in 5 years. Stunned that someone who has played and coached at such a high level can allow this to continue to happen.
Hitting is very disappointing. This was supposed to be Cohen's strong point, yet in year 5 we are weak at the plate.
Base running is beyond disappointing. Foolish is the best word i can use to describe it. We take ridiculous chances on the base paths and it hasn't improved one bit in 5 years. Stunned that someone who has played and coached at such a high level can allow this to continue to happen.
I agree Pat -- and I'm glad to see this approach going away now. These are the guys that have already signed and will be here next year(only position players). Scouting reports and info courtesy of Gene: http://mississippistate.scout.com/2/1096871.html
<center style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 15px;">CLASS OF 2013 MSU BASEBALL SIGNEES/COMMITMENTS (14)</center>Reid Humphreys, SS/RHP, 6-2, 180, R-R, Northwest Rankin High School (Flowood, MS)
Reid is considered one of the top players in the nation .... In 2012 he batted .360 with 7 home runs and 38 RBI. He also had a 6-3 record with a 1.85 ERA ... In 2011 he batted .412 with 3 home runs and 18 RBI in 24 games. He also had a 5-2 record with a 3.18 earned run average on the mound.... Reid played his summer ball with the prestigious summer travel team program, the Marucci Elite 16s.... His older brother, Tyler Moore, played baseball at Mississippi State and is currently playing in the Major Leagues .... Top Tools: Hitting For Average, Hitting With Power, Arm Strength, Defense.
Brent Rooker, 1B, 6-4, 185, R-R, Evangelical Christian School (Cordova, TN) HS
One of the top class of 2013 players in the state of Tennessee ... As a junior (2012), he hit .450 with 15 doubles, 3 triples, 3 home runs and 38 RBI. He also stole 19-of-19 stolen bases ... A great athlete who runs in the 4.65 forty-yard dash range and has a 36-inch vertical leap ... He chose MSU over an offer from Memphis as well as interest
Ben Hudspeth, RHP/C, 6-0, 200, R-R, Itawamba (MS) Community College
As a freshman, Ben earned NJCAA All-American honors after going 11-0 record with a 1.82 ERA.
Cody Walker, C, 5-11, 190, R-R, Chattahoochee Valley Community College (Phenix City, AL)
He hit .312 and had a .996 fielding percentage his freshman season at CVCC. He chose Mississippi State over Auburn, Alabama and Columbia State University.
Jake Vickerson, OF, 5-10, 180, R-R, Shelton State (AL) Community College
One of the top junior college prospects in the state of Alabama ... As a freshman, he batted .381 in 194 at-bats, walking 30 times while striking out just 1 times. He stole 19 bases in 21 attmpts ... Chose MSU over Alabama
Dylan Ingram, 1B, 6-4, 210, R-R, Edgewood Academy (AL)
As a junior, he hit .541 with 69 RBI. He was the AISA player of the year as a junior ... Has outstanding power potential ... He is also an outstanding student with a 4.0+ gpa and a 28 act ... He chose MSU over over Auburn, Florida State and several others
Avery Geyer, RHP/OF, 5-11, 195, R-R, Catholic HS (Pensacola, FL)
As a junior, he was 9-1 with a 1.45 ERA and struck out 112 in 77.1 innings .... He throws in the 88-92 mph range ... He chose MSU over offers from South Alabama and Southern Miss and interest from ULL, Tulane and UCF.
Jacob Billingsley, INF/RHP, 6-1, 180, R-R, Magnolia Heights (MS) School
As a pitcher, Billingsley throws in the mid-80s, topping out in the 87 to 88 mph range ... He had a 2.22 ERA and a 2-0 record while throwing 41 innings his junior season. Teams hit .180 against him.
Gavin Collins, C, 6-0, 195, R-R, El Toro HS (Lake Forest, CA)
One of the elite prospects in the nation .... Outstanding hitter who is rated a 9.5 out of a 10.0 scale by national scouting service Perfect Game ... Also an excellent defensive catcher with a very good arm. Has a 1.90 pop time to second base ... Has the potential to be a very high draft pick in the 2012 summer MLB draft ... Chose MSU over his other three finalists, Oregon, Arizona State and Fresno State.
2014 commitments:
Dale Burdick, MIF, 6-0, 170, R-R, Sumimit HS (Spring Hill, TN)
One of the top players in the state of Tennessee ... Chosen to the Perfect Game 2012 Underclassmen All-American Team as an honorable mention selection ... Chose MSU over interest from Alabama, Georgia, Vanderbilt, UCLA, Cal, and ArizonaJoey Swinarski, OF, 6-3, 190, R-R, The First Academy (Winter Park FL)
One of the top players in the nation ... An outstanding hitter who hits for power ... Selected to the 2012 17U World Wood Bat Assocation All-Tournament Team after hitting .415 for the tourney .... Ranked among the top 100 players in the nation by national scouting service Perfect Game ... Chose MSU over interest from Florida, Florida State, Miami (FL), North Carolina, Oklahoma State, Ole Miss and South Carolina
2015 commitments:Luke Alexander, SS/RHP, 6-foot, 165, S-R, Belmont (MS) High School
One of the top players in the nation in his classification... Made the 2010 USA 14U National Baseball team as a 13-year-old... Chose Mississippi State over interest from LSU and Ole Miss... Top Tools: Hitting, Defense.
Keegan James, RHP, 6-foot-2.5, 190, R-R, Desoto Central (MS) High School
Chose Mississippi State over interest from Georgia, LSU, Memphis and Ole Miss... Top Tools: Arm-strength, command.
Austin Riley, Catcher, 6-foot-2, 215, R-R, Desoto Central(MS) High School
Chose Mississippi State over interest from LSU and Ole Miss... Top Tools: Hitting, Defense.
Hunter Stovall, Catcher, 5-foot-9, 170, R-R, Pelham (AL) High School
One of the top catchers in the southeast ... Chose Mississippi State over an offer from Auburn and interest from Alabama, LSU and South Carolina ... Top Tools: Hitting, Defense, Speed.
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Cohen is 110-163-1 coaching in the SEC
His record at Kentucky was 63-85-1 and at MSU is 47-78. He basically had one good year at Kentucky and one at MSU. Take out the gimme teams and he has not been very good. I am not anti- Cohen but records don't lie.
His record at Kentucky was 63-85-1 and at MSU is 47-78. He basically had one good year at Kentucky and one at MSU. Take out the gimme teams and he has not been very good. I am not anti- Cohen but records don't lie.
Isn't Mingione our hitting coach?? I think the problem starts and stops with that guy. I have never liked him or his antics (not really sure what his area of "expertise" is supposed to be) and I think we need a "true" full time hitting instructor on staff. I can think of a few in Mississippi and one who is actually a high school assistant principal not even involved with baseball at a school in south Madison County.
Without trying to sound disrespectfull, isn't that what Cohen is known for, teaching hitting? If his hitting coach isn't working out, why hasn't he simply taken that over or replaced him?
That being said, the horrific base running is still my biggest problem with Cohen in year 5. That alone makes me doubt he can improve this team to the level most msu fans want to see it get to.
He is supposed to be some sort of hitting guru, but I don't think he works with the hitters to find flaws and correct them. That is where a guy that specializes in hitting comes in. Cohen probably doesn't have time to watch film of every MSU batter and find hitchs or mechanics issues that a guy who spends time in the cages with guys does. Sometimes, it is mental, but sometimes it is just where the hands start, the attacking approach, etc. Most people think by the time a guy gets to college, he should have the mechanics down if he was good enough to be drafted. But let's look at Renfroe from last year to this. When did he get better? during the season last year, during summer ball, or during fall practice? I would say during summer. Remember that Renfroe came in with some gaudy numbers but he played in a crackerbox ball yard at Copiah Academy. A line drive over the shortstops head was a homer there. Renfroe was a line drive hitter. And he tried to lift the ball last year.
Frazier was hot last year, and started this year even hotter. What has happened over the last 3 weeks? Other teams have charted him and they stay low and away and he is hitting more pop ups to the right side instead of ground balls through the holes and line drives up the middle like early in the year. Who is working with him to fix that? Just a couple of examples.
Frazier was hot last year, and started this year even hotter. What has happened over the last 3 weeks? Other teams have charted him and they stay low and away and he is hitting more pop ups to the right side instead of ground balls through the holes and line drives up the middle like early in the year. Who is working with him to fix that? Just a couple of examples.
No I am just pointing out how you and your clone are hypocrits
No just pointing out how you berate and belittle some coaches and give others a pass. Cohen has had 2 decent seasons as an SEC head coach against league opponents. If it was Stans you would be trying to run him off.
No just pointing out how you berate and belittle some coaches and give others a pass. Cohen has had 2 decent seasons as an SEC head coach against league opponents. If it was Stans you would be trying to run him off.
I think you should look at the big picture. Our hitting was outstanding in 2009 and 2010, but we were getting blown out because we had no pitching. Hitting dipped in 2011 and 2012 but we as a team were better. Now it's rising up again, and we have the pitching and defense to go with it. Thus, we're a pretty good team. And we are only showing signs of getting better.
Considering the conference we play in, I don't see how anyone could really say Cohen's done a bad or even average job. He's been above average. Maybe not elite, but he's done a good job.
Considering the conference we play in, I don't see how anyone could really say Cohen's done a bad or even average job. He's been above average. Maybe not elite, but he's done a good job.