It's year 5 for Cohen - when he was hired...

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
No just pointing out how you berate and belittle some coaches and give others a pass. Cohen has had 2 decent seasons as an SEC head coach against league opponents. If it was Stans you would be trying to run him off.

This is so f'n stupid. We are RPI #11 right now in baseball. We finished last year #21 -- and 2011 #18.

Here's your boy's RPI's over his last 7 years.
2012 - 84
2011 - 116
2010 - 59
2009 - 63
2008 - 43
2007 - 51
2006 - 112

Yeah, situations are quite comparable**
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
So, Geezer -- Are you ready to answer for this one and admit that you were wrong? This was also posted when we had 8 healthy scholarship players in a poll about how many games we would win this season...

Better change it to 7. And I say under 7

http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/show...tball-Season-Over-Under-9&p=793755#post793755

Your hypocrisy is hilarious. You lambasted Coach and everyone else for Stans' name being brought up in relation to the smoldering remnants of the dumpster fire basketball program -- yet, here YOU are bringing it up in some kind of ridiculous attempt to belittle our CURRENT baseball program?
 

shoeless joe

Redshirt
Aug 27, 2009
288
0
0
Baseball is extremely arbitrary when it comes to where a team finishes during a given season. Two years ago we were a few outs away from Omaha and I don't think anyone believes that team is better than this one. So I wont judge a team based solely on postseason or the first 9 SEC games. But I would hope we would be in the top part of the league and that needs a little work at this point. But we are getting there, maybe a little slow but we are getting there.
 

Ace-Leroy

Redshirt
Aug 23, 2012
334
34
28
I think you should look at the big picture. Our hitting was outstanding in 2009 and 2010, but we were getting blown out because we had no pitching. Hitting dipped in 2011 and 2012 but we as a team were better. Now it's rising up again, and we have the pitching and defense to go with it. Thus, we're a pretty good team. And we are only showing signs of getting better.




Considering the conference we play in, I don't see how anyone could really say Cohen's done a bad or even average job. He's been above average. Maybe not elite, but he's done a good job.

I don't see us rising up hitting, and again we run the bases horribly. Don't see many defending this part of our team. Are we getting the results from Cohen that he is being paid for? I don't think we are.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
I don't see us rising up hitting, and again we run the bases horribly. Don't see many defending this part of our team. Are we getting the results from Cohen that he is being paid for? I don't think we are.

I don't see any difference either**


 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
C'mon Engie you'll have to wait until seasons end for those 2 comparisons.

I'll bet anything you want to put out there that we finish the year superior in practically every single offensive category in comparison to last year. That's common sense -- I don't have to wait on anything. We've already seen 3 of the 4 best pitching staffs in the SEC... Of course, we do miss #11, 13, and 14 this year...
 

BiscuitEater

Redshirt
Aug 29, 2009
4,178
0
36
Good point ...

The fact is that when State ruled the roost in baseball, very few other SEC schools were really that interested. Now they are. That makes a lot of difference.

and applies equally to Dan Mullen. Both baseball and football are making progress BUT we just happen to play in the toughest football AND baseball conference in the country. The SEC has won 3 of the last 4 CWSs and last year USCe lost to Ariz. LSU, Vandy, Ark, Fl (3) and USCe (3) have all played in the CWS in the last four years.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
where is 2013?


***ducks***

You didn't watch, remember?

2014 will be expected to be back around the top 100 -- and I'm sure you and Geezer will be pissed about it...

Of course, your boy put up a #126 in year two with a team that he had been building for 8 years prior to becoming head coach -- and was just 3 years removed from a final 4 when he took over. But you don't want to look at that and compare it apples to apples, do you?
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,524
25,798
113
Come on. You can't possibly be that stupid. To set the record straight, Cohen is 29-89 in the SEC in his first 2 years taking over miserable programs and 81-74-1 when he's been able to play with his players instead of the Div. II players he had to play in his first 2 years at each school. There are definitely some things he deserves criticism for, but no one can deny that he's done a pretty good job at both MSU and UK.
 

KurtRambis4

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
15,926
0
36
Maybe I'm

misunderstanding, but are you saying our pitching (currently) is better than you expected?
 

Dawgbreeze

Redshirt
Jun 11, 2007
1,655
0
0
Come on. You can't possibly be that stupid. To set the record straight, Cohen is 29-89 in the SEC in his first 2 years taking over miserable programs and 81-74-1 when he's been able to play with his players instead of the Div. II players he had to play in his first 2 years at each school. There are definitely some things he deserves criticism for, but no one can deny that he's done a pretty good job at both MSU and UK.

I may be stupid but the proof is in the pudding and all you have to do is google John Cohen baseball record to see he had one really good year at Kentucky where he won 20 games. All the rest were not that good and he only had one other winning season in the league at 16-14. His SEC record at MSU is not even that good with one season at 16-14 in the league. But gee, you guys use one criteria for one coach and another for whomever you support. If we are going to compete in the SEC, we should at least be above .500 in the league. And yes, I feel the same way about football and basketball. Nobody has ever said the first few years of rebuilding are difficult but after 4 or 5 years a program should be established. By the way, Cohen went 20-10 in his third year at Kentucky and then proceeded to go 13-16-1 and then 16-14. He is in his fifth year at MSU and we are going to be lucky to go.500 in the league this year. It is what it is but, heh, they play hard.
 
Sep 16, 2012
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Thought Cohen would transfer his Kentucky magic to MSU...

..& by Year 5 we would be a top 5 program. Kentucky magic...forfeited. Bottom line is Cohen has not recruited to the level he should be recruiting at a traditional baseball school like MSU. By Year 5, Cohen should have a line-up consisting of 5 Hunter Renfroes...not 1 Hunter Renfroe. Included, by Year 5 Cohen should have 2 Chris Strattons pitching for him...not 0 Chris Strattons.
 
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UIUCDog

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
711
0
0
I may be stupid

Should’ve just stopped there.

Seriously, it is pathetic how you cannot make a single post that doesn’t center on your bitterness over Stansbury. And if you can’t see the difference in trying to win in this league in baseball or football versus basketball, then I don’t know what to tell you.
 

justin_aguilera

Redshirt
Mar 27, 2013
112
0
0
Only teams we should concede anything to are LSU and Carolina. UF, UM, VU, UK and Ark should not be considered better programs than us at this point. You could make a case for UF, since they have as many Omaha appearances as us and reached the Championship a few times, and Georgia, who's actually won the thing once. The rest? Absolutely not.

One more run to Omaha by us and we're ahead of Florida again.

He is supposed to be some sort of hitting guru, but I don't think he works with the hitters to find flaws and correct them. That is where a guy that specializes in hitting comes in. Cohen probably doesn't have time to watch film of every MSU batter and find hitchs or mechanics issues that a guy who spends time in the cages with guys does. Sometimes, it is mental, but sometimes it is just where the hands start, the attacking approach, etc. Most people think by the time a guy gets to college, he should have the mechanics down if he was good enough to be drafted. But let's look at Renfroe from last year to this. When did he get better? during the season last year, during summer ball, or during fall practice? I would say during summer. Remember that Renfroe came in with some gaudy numbers but he played in a crackerbox ball yard at Copiah Academy. A line drive over the shortstops head was a homer there. Renfroe was a line drive hitter. And he tried to lift the ball last year.

Frazier was hot last year, and started this year even hotter. What has happened over the last 3 weeks? Other teams have charted him and they stay low and away and he is hitting more pop ups to the right side instead of ground balls through the holes and line drives up the middle like early in the year. Who is working with him to fix that? Just a couple of examples.[/QUOTE​]


I know for a fact that Coach Ming watches film and gives our guys advice every single time, and he does so on a regular basis. He also encourages them to watch the film themselves and try to point out their flaws and he'll tell them if they're right or wrong in their assessment. And yes, Coach Cohen's specialty was hitting, but the new bats caused him and everyone else to adjust.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
I may be stupid

Yep** Bring back Polk!!1!1 Best we've been sitting as of this week in the computers in at least 17 years -- change is needed!!1!1!

Hilarious that you want to hold a consistent standard in the unquestionably best football conference, unquestionably best baseball conference, and NINTH(this yr) best basketball conference... Yet, you only want that standard to apply in hindsight to your hero -- you don't want to carry it forward.

Fact is, you are talking this noise RIGHT NOW, because you fully realize that it's likely going to be your only chance to say it. Ray proved he could coach this year -- even to you. You said he would win fewer than 7 games with 8 scholarship players -- he won 10 with 6 and no point guard. You fully understand that he'll have a much better club next year -- and your time for making this ignorant argument will be at an end -- and IF he can recruit a lick, YOU will be the one that is shamed in this eternal argument that YOU won't drop.
 
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bruiser.sixpack

Redshirt
Aug 13, 2009
7,346
0
0
I think in Cohen year 5, MSU should be in the Top 4 pitching staffs in SEC games, the Top 4 Hitting teams in SEC games, and the Top 4 defensive teams in SEC games. Are we???

Those first 17 games were all pushovers and it is obvious by how we have played since then. Yes, we play very good SEC teams. That aint gonna change. We Gotta start beating those guys more than they beat us for Cohen to prove he is worth his salary. So far, we are 3-6 or 1-2 against each of these: LSU, UK and Arkansas and also 1-2 against Central Arkansas.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
I think in Cohen year 5, MSU should be in the Top 4 pitching staffs in SEC games, the Top 4 Hitting teams in SEC games, and the Top 4 defensive teams in SEC games. Are we

So, basically, you think we should be a top 5 team in the country and competing for SEC and national titles(LSU is probably the only team that will fit this criteria any significant length into the season) -- with exactly one recruiting class on campus that had seen MSU have a winning season in their highschool careers prior to inking with us? That's not unreasonable at all**
 

Dawgbreeze

Redshirt
Jun 11, 2007
1,655
0
0
Engie, now quit distorting the facts and lying like coach34

I did say we would be lucky to win over 7 but that was when the season started and I was wrong. Now we did win some of those with more than 6 players so quit lying to prove a point. Stansbury is gone, I am over it but criteria for success is the same no matter who coaches at MSU. If Cohen can't improve each year then we are spinning our wheels. I want him and every other coach to succeed at MSU but it sure seems like folks have different opinions about success because the criteria was sure different in the past.



Yep** Bring back Polk!!1!1 Best we've been sitting as of this week in the computers in at least 17 years -- change is needed!!1!1!

Hilarious that you want to hold a consistent standard in the unquestionably best football conference, unquestionably best baseball conference, and NINTH(this yr) best basketball conference... Yet, you only want that standard to apply in hindsight to your hero -- you don't want to carry it forward.

Fact is, you are talking this noise RIGHT NOW, because you fully realize that it's likely going to be your only chance to say it. Ray proved he could coach this year -- even to you. You said he would win fewer than 7 games with 8 scholarship players -- he won 10 with 6 and no point guard. You fully understand that he'll have a much better club next year -- and your time for making this ignorant argument will be at an end -- and IF he can recruit a lick, YOU will be the one that is shamed in this eternal argument that YOU won't drop.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
I did say we would be lucky to win over 7 but that was when the season started and I was wrong. Now we did win some of those with more than 6 players so quit lying to prove a point. Stansbury is gone, I am over it but criteria for success is the same no matter who coaches at MSU. If Cohen can't improve each year then we are spinning our wheels. I want him and every other coach to succeed at MSU but it sure seems like folks have different opinions about success because the criteria was sure different in the past.

Cohen is STILL inside the top 20 despite a bad month. Could we be better in the SEC than 3-6 right now? Certainly. Is this still a much better team than we've seen around here in a long time in spite of that? Absolutely. THAT is why people are upset -- because the talent is in place to start rolling now -- even though we've been snakebit by some pretty bad luck on the injury front with our SP.

If we watch this exact scenario(talented and underperforming) for another decade without making it back to the Super Regionals, and in year 6 or 7 they stop playing hard and we have constant national embarrassments, it would be identical to watching your boy coach basketball for the past decade... and everyone would be ready to fire Cohen regardless of how well he had done in the SEC regular season.

The criteria IS and has ALWAYS stayed the same. YOU are the one distorting it to fit the agenda...

So, let's be clear...and I feel like this speaks for ALL the Stansbury dissenters...Ray gets a complete free pass on this past season -- we expect to see marked improvement in year two with a full roster on the court. We also expect to see marked improvement in his first full recruiting class which will sign this November. In his 3rd year on the job, he becomes held to the same standards that Stansbury was in each of our minds -- whatever those standards may have been.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
Like I've said

I don't see us rising up hitting, and again we run the bases horribly. Don't see many defending this part of our team. Are we getting the results from Cohen that he is being paid for? I don't think we are.


when you are an aggressive team, sometimes you are going to have times where you get burned on the bases. Sometimes you are going to steal runs as well such as the time we put on a squeeze and got a key run earlier in the year. It's just something you have to live with. If something goes wrong people like you are going to criticize it, and you that's just the price you pay sometimes.

We're stealing bases at an 80% clip right now. (.796 to be exact) I didn't find a stat for times the other team has recorded an outfield assist. And while stolen base percentage isn't all encompassing as far as base running, I think that number indicates that we don't run the bases "horribly" or as bad as a little league team.