Ive never been Catholic...won't ever be Catholic...

[jflores]

What is puzzling from my view is that we seem to be in agreement that it would be odd or downright undesirable to have communion police to ensure that catholic beliefs are followed. From me the logical extension of that is, if I'm going to have an open stance on the front end I should have one on the back end. Ie there should be relatively little or no angst about sparks situation because we never intend to filter folks like sparky out to begin with.

In general I don't find the Catholics particularly inflexible people. They are sort of leading the way on gay marriage and they have generally provoked republican ire by voting pro choice for about 50 years.

But God bless em, they just will not stand the wrong person eating their crackers and grape juice

 

[Pennsyhusker_rivals246774]

What is puzzling from my view is that we seem to be in agreement that it would be odd or downright undesirable to have communion police to ensure that catholic beliefs are followed. From me the logical extension of that is, if I'm going to have an open stance on the front end I should have one on the back end. Ie there should be relatively little or no angst about sparks situation because we never intend to filter folks like sparky out to begin with.

In general I don't find the Catholics particularly inflexible people. They are sort of leading the way on gay marriage and they have generally provoked republican ire by voting pro choice for about 50 years.

But God bless em, they just will not stand the wrong person eating their crackers and grape juice

Ha. Well I think you just answered your own question. I know you meant your last line to be more rhetorical flourish than substantive argument, but it is still telling. Catholics and Orthodox would never refer to the eucharistic elements, flippantly, as "crackers and grape juice". It is THE central mystery and ritual of our faith, a ritual given to us by the Lord himself the night before he died. Thus, we do not view communion as a hospitality party favor or a participation prize ("hi, thanks for coming, have a wafer..."). Even Christ, who practiced open table fellowship with all kinds of sinners and rogues, retired to a private room to institute the Eucharist and did so only with his closest disciples. And from St. Paul on forward, the Church has always held to this view: the Eucharist is a re-presentation of the death and resurrection of Christ and is damn serious business having nothing to do with "making visitors feel welcome". That is for donuts and coffee later.

And the reason there is no communion police "up front" or on the "back end" is because the Church has stated her views clearly on the matter but then leaves it up to the individual conscience as to how to negotiate that teaching in his/her own life.

 

[Pennsyhusker_rivals246774]

But I also don't know what you mean when you say Catholics just won't stand for the wrong person eating their...

I have NEVER witnessed in my 57 years as a Catholic ANYONE ever make a scene over someone taking communion who should not be. Not once. So you are attacking another straw man

 

[Pennsyhusker_rivals246774]

I broke my own rule in getting involved in this discussion. So in the words of Holly Hunter in the movie "O Brother Where art Thou": "I have spoken my piece and counted to three".

Peace to everyone and apologies to any who may have been offended.

Ciao

 

[jflores]

But I also don't know what you mean when you say Catholics just won't stand for the wrong person eating their...

I have NEVER witnessed in my 57 years as a Catholic ANYONE ever make a scene over someone taking communion who should not be. Not once. So you are attacking another straw man

I think I meant what I said... There should be relatively little or no angst since there is no intent to filter (beyond the individuals conscience).

I'm not saying that I have witnessed several instances of people causing a ruckus in church over the issue (I saw at least one at my grandmothers funeral concerning my family since we had left the church) but it seems to be a point of contention on blogs and over coffee and donuts beyond what I would expect for the amount of effort they put into policing (none).

 

[jflores]

Ha. Well I think you just answered your own question. I know you meant your last line to be more rhetorical flourish than substantive argument, but it is still telling. Catholics and Orthodox would never refer to the eucharistic elements, flippantly, as "crackers and grape juice". It is THE central mystery and ritual of our faith, a ritual given to us by the Lord himself the night before he died. Thus, we do not view communion as a hospitality party favor or a participation prize ("hi, thanks for coming, have a wafer..."). Even Christ, who practiced open table fellowship with all kinds of sinners and rogues, retired to a private room to institute the Eucharist and did so only with his closest disciples. And from St. Paul on forward, the Church has always held to this view: the Eucharist is a re-presentation of the death and resurrection of Christ and is damn serious business having nothing to do with "making visitors feel welcome". That is for donuts and coffee later.

And the reason there is no communion police "up front" or on the "back end" is because the Church has stated her views clearly on the matter but then leaves it up to the individual conscience as to how to negotiate that teaching in his/her own life.

The general mistake with this approach is that it is self centered. A church with a theology of shelter could be taking in anyone from non believers to devout Catholics. Most folks in this status will not be familiar with catholic theology or the particulars of pew politics over coffee and donuts later.

Ha. Well I think you just answered your own question. I know you meant your last line to be more rhetorical flourish than substantive argument, but it is still telling. Catholics and Orthodox would never refer to the eucharistic elements, flippantly, as "crackers and grape juice". It is THE central mystery and ritual of our faith, a ritual given to us by the Lord himself the night before he died. Thus, we do not view communion as a hospitality party favor or a participation prize ("hi, thanks for coming, have a wafer..."). Even Christ, who practiced open table fellowship with all kinds of sinners and rogues, retired to a private room to institute the Eucharist and did so only with his closest disciples. And from St. Paul on forward, the Church has always held to this view: the Eucharist is a re-presentation of the death and resurrection of Christ and is damn serious business having nothing to do with "making visitors feel welcome". That is for donuts and coffee later.

And the reason there is no communion police "up front" or on the "back end" is because the Church has stated her views clearly on the matter but then leaves it up to the individual conscience as to how to negotiate that teaching in his/her own life.

I don't know about you but in South Omaha I hung around several Catholic raised kids talking about crackers and grape juice like us Protestant kids

 

[jflores]

I sincerely apologize, but I am not following the point you are trying to make. The priest is going to administer the eucharist to those who come up for communion. Each individual makes that decision. The Church has a set of rules which individuals are to follow. Each individual will decide whether or not they are going to comply.

If you are saying that Catholic practices and Catholic ideals are in direct conflict, then I absolutely disagree with you.

This is fairly demonstrably untrue. See the aforementioned stance from church leaders on abortion and historical Catholic voting patterns. Or on birth control. Or if you flip the roles around maybe even gay marriage.

And that's just the big ones. It's long since been that the church could keep theology and actions anywhere near a unified front

 

[Lincoln100]

This is fairly demonstrably untrue. See the aforementioned stance from church leaders on abortion and historical Catholic voting patterns. Or on birth control. Or if you flip the roles around maybe even gay marriage.

And that's just the big ones. It's long since been that the church could keep theology and actions anywhere near a unified front

If you have the time and desire, perhaps you could explain the church leaders stance on abortion and gay marriage, identify the leaders, and compare and contrast the ideals versus the practice. You said it is somewhere above, maybe cut n paste.

Regarding voting patterns of Catholics, individuals are free to vote however they like, and a certain percentage of people voting for someone whose policies aren't in line with Catholicism doesn't make the practices and ideals of the Church inconsistent. It should also be noted that there are plenty of people who identify themselves as Catholic, but don't practice Catholicism.

 

[30BringsTheHurt]

This is probably an example of a thread that has turned 180 degrees from its original intent.

 

[Husker Hank]

I uligized my mom and a brother at catholic funerals so yes it happens.

 

[oldred79]

Have been to several where it was done. A lot of times just not done.

 

[Spartanhusker]

thank you for bringing us back to my original question....