You can take any bad team in America and probably find good and bad shooters on the team. Doesn't say anything about the situation Wheeler played in at UGA.
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UK was actually worse than Georgia last season.Think about that.
My guess is we get TyTy and Wheeler. Then still have the possibility of a return of Mintz. Hardy will remain the wildcard. Hearing it’ll likely come down to the announcement day. I don’t think anyone will have a good feel on Hardy either way. If we does go to college, it’s UK, though.
You sound like a mid major fan. You’re making excuses for bad stats. You’re trying to tell me that his stats aren't indicative of what he is and trying to come up with excuses for why he shot so poorly and turned the ball over so much. It’s crap, he is what his stats say he is.
You would have a point if he shot a respectable % from the outside, but 22% is awful and there is nothing you can say that would be a good reason for that. He literally missed 78% of the threes he took. He took those shots, not coach Crean.
And the 4.5 turns per game is also on him, I don't see how you can explain it away like he wasn't the one that turned the ball over.
Hagans was a turnover machine too, he is the main reason UK lost that E8 game against Auburn. He was a guy that turned the ball over a lot because he tried to force things, Wheeler has that problem too. You can’t make excuses for these flaws man.
Yeah, it's irrelevant to you, because it doesn’t fit your narrative. You’re trying to argue against facts with personal feelings towards a player.
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But please explain his 47% inside the 3 point line when he is actually more heavily guarded...If he was such a poor shooter, wouldn't he not be able to make any shots as he got closer to the rim and into the thick of the defense? And how did he shoot 33% from three his first year at Georgia? If he was such a poor shooter, how could he manage that percentage?
So is he a 32% shooter or a 22% shooter then? You trying to tell me he is gonna be a 22% shooter at UK next season because that is what he did at UGA his sophomore season ? At a minimum there is high deviation in the data---I'd argue 32% from 3 his freshman season at UGA will be more comparable to his potential role at UK next season. I don't think he is gonna come in a be a great outside shooter or anything, nor do I think that would be his role next season at UK, but if he can mirror his freshman shooting percentage, that's respectable enough to where teams aren't gonna be able to sag off of him.
Original point of the whole argument was to say : 1) context -- his role at UK would be to distribute not necessarily be the lead scorer on the team which he was last season at UGA, 2) his shooting data from 3 either doesn't have enough sample size or has high variation, it's not consistent enough to extrapolate anything out of, probably due to how his roles changed at UGA.
If you want to say he's not going to be a lights out 3 pt shooter, yeah Id agree that the stats tell you that that would be unlikely. I don't think you can conclude anything else with high confidence given the variation in the data and with how his role would change at UK.
We need depth and I’ll take any quality player who wants to play here. He definitely good enough to give some good minutes.
Yeah, I agree. I wasn’t real enthused at first, but the kid can improve. I mean we will need a backup PG regardless. I think he can fill that role at least.
It is Hilarious that the fans think Cal will get TyTy, Hardy, Alvarado, Zegarowski, Abmas, or any of the other talented veteran point guards. These talented Veteran Point Guards like Alvarado, Marcus Zegarowski, Abmas, Pippen Jr., and others will all transfer to Kentucky and have there minutes cut from 35mpg. to 20 mpg. If Coach Cal get TyTy Williams on Saturday it will be hard to bring one of these talented veteran Point Guards that has 3 years and averaged 35mpg. They do not want to transfer from playing the last 3-4 years at 35mpg and have there minutes cut to 20mpg. We have 3 positions with 120 minutes if we do play the 3 guard lineup next year. We all know for 4 years at Davidson that Kellan Grady averaged 35mpg while averaging 17ppg in all 4 seasons. We know that Grady is an outstanding player and hits approx. 40% from 3 while averaging 17ppg in 4 years at Davidson. Grady will get his 30-35 mpg at Kentucky as he is was the best transfer that was out there when Cal grabbed Grady right away. Then we still have Mintz that hasn't decided yet if he returns to UK or NBA. We also have Allen and Fredrick and if we get TyTy this Saturday that would be 5 guards if Mintz returns. So, Cal is figuring if we can grab Wheeler that would be 5 or 6 guards if Mintz returns that are all outstanding players for the 3 guard lineup.
If we do get Wheeler he did average 14ppg. 8 assists a game. Yes, he did average 4 turnovers but that was at Georgia and that could be different at UK with the team that Cal is pulling together. We all know Cal would love to add one of these talented veteran PG's Alvarado, Abmas, Zegarowski, Pippen, Jr., to come in next season with TyTy Williams, Grady, Fredrick, Allen, and Mintz if he returns for next season. That would be 6 outstanding guards for the 3 guard lineup. The problem is that most of the Players especially the transfers want to continue to get 30-35mpg and not drop to 20mpg for transferring to UK. If you look at Alvarado, Grady, and Mintz all averaged 35mpg. Then you have Fredrick that averaged 30mpg in his 1st season at Iowa and we know TyTy would get 30+ minutes if he is playing like he did in the Iverson Classic and all of his senior year in High School. It is hard right now for Cal to bring in 6 talented guards and try to split up these minutes over the 3 positions and 120 minutes. Remember, this year the NCAA is looking at going to 6 Fouls so that could cut down on Foul trouble and other players getting into the games. This is why Cal is probably looking at Wheeler because Cal probably thought he had TyTy Williams and Hickman at the PG next season. Most of these talented Point Guards that has been around 3-4 years want to come to UK and play 35 mpg not 20mpg.
If we do get Wheeler he did average 14ppg. 8 assists a game. Yes, he did average 4 turnovers but that was at Georgia and that could be different at UK with the team that Cal is pulling together. We all know Cal would love to add one of these talented veteran PG's Alvarado, Abmas, Zegarowski, Pippen, Jr., to come in next season with TyTy Williams, Grady, Fredrick, Allen, and Mintz if he returns for next season. That would be 6 outstanding guards for the 3 guard lineup. The problem is that most of the Players especially the transfers want to continue to get 30-35mpg and not drop to 20mpg for transferring to UK. If you look at Alvarado, Grady, and Mintz all averaged 35mpg. Then you have Fredrick that averaged 30mpg in his 1st season at Iowa and we know TyTy would get 30+ minutes if he is playing like he did in the Iverson Classic and all of his senior year in High School. It is hard right now for Cal to bring in 6 talented guards and try to split up these minutes over the 3 positions and 120 minutes. Remember, this year the NCAA is looking at going to 6 Fouls so that could cut down on Foul trouble and other players getting into the games. This is why Cal is probably looking at Wheeler because Cal probably thought he had TyTy Williams and Hickman at the PG next season. Most of these talented Point Guards that has been around 3-4 years want to come to UK and play 35 mpg not 20mpg.
Agree that high level HS prospects and high level transfers probably won't gel together.
TyTy is not coming here to be a backup and top level pg transfers are not coming to back him up.
Grady would probably not be here if Hardy was already in the fold.
I'll be thrilled with Hardy but if he comes he sends someone to the portal or they ask for a release.
Literally nobody thinks Cal will get all those players, You just created a strawman and wrote a novel about it.
Relax. There are people who think it's already official. Like paperwork official, not verbal commitment official.
Honest question, you do not think the cast around a player makes a difference ? Hagans had two other elite guards to help share the load and take pressure off him. He also had a whole lot better players to distribute to. No way teams could double team / trap him (cause TO's). He had all of these guys around him, and STILL tried to sabotage the team with his selfish attitude, refusing to be coached and not go back into games. Do you not consider ANY of that ? Or just rely on stats ? Wheeler played 35 MPG, did 80% of the ball handling, was the only distributor on the team, was constantly doubled teamed. Do you not think that MAY have contributed to the higher TO rate ? Not all, he was a little out of control during games, but he had to, he had to both create and score for his team. DO NOT just use stats / box scores to compare a player, it is really narrow minded and tunnel vision by not looking at the factors in how he got those stats.
Kind of like a guy scoring 40 points (The RW / JH theory), but it may have taken 30 shots to get there. A player may have 12 assist, but also have 8 to's. A key stat for Wheeler tells the true story. His Points Produced Per Game, it factors in scoring, assist, and turnovers. His was 16.2 PPG, #3 in the SEC, right behind Moses Moody and Cameron Thomas. For me, those are two guys I would want to be associated with when comparing numbers, and as far as I knw, he is a LEADER and not a cancer. That is also a HUGE factor stats do not show.
If he improves, he is first team all SEC, since he was second team last year. You guys crack me up acting like Wheeler is some kind of scrub. Zero basketball knowledge if anyone thinks Wheeler wouldn’t be a good fit for what UK needs next year.
The problem is that you are just looking at percentages and not digging any deeper into his game which accounts for your shallow thinking. By your logic, a player who hits 2 out of 4 three pointers over the whole season is a much better shooter than one who goes for 40 out of 100 three pointers just because one hits 50% and the other hits 40%. There is more to the numbers than just comparing percentages. Heck, him just hitting 4 more 3 pointers over the whole season jumps him up to 30% from three.
You also discredit his 47% FG percentage on 2 point baskets his sophomore year, 51% FG percentage on 2 point baskets his Freshman year and his 33% FG percentage on 3 pointers his Freshman year. This means he hits up to half his shots against the thick of the defense. Does this make him a poor shooter when he actually shoots it better on 2 point baskets than Ulis? If so, you are saying Ulis was a poor shooter since he shot it worse than Wheeler on 2 point baskets...
Classic case of talent around you. Take a look at Derrick Rose with the Pistons and Derrick Rose with the Knicks. Also, when there is a player who is the only elite player on his team, he is going to have low shooting % and high TO's. Because he has to try and do everything. Also, Wheeler played 35 MPG, do you not think fatigue might have caused SOME of those TO's ?
Well, he will definitely have to improve on shooting and taking care of the basketball.
Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. Ulis had no big to throw the ball to in 2015/16, do you see people having to make excuses for excessive turnovers with regards to Ulis? I don't, know why? Well, because he was a polished pg that played under control. You’re making excuses for why a guy turned the ball over at an incredibly high rate all season ling. Just stop, you're exposing yourself.
Also, lets not act like UGA was completely void of talent, KD Johnson scored 14ppg, Camara got 13ppg, Fagan was a 9ppg guy and Kier was a 10ppg guy. They had good players and they also had 3 seniors and a junior that all played significant minutes. Stop making excuses. His stats are what they are.
Wheeler can certainly fix the things that we are talking about. Cal is a great pg coach, so I believe he will get him straightened out, I just hope we don't see another 6 game losing streak while Cal tries to get him right.
Nobody said he was a scrub. Stop for a second and actually read what people are posting.
So, does the Wheeler family cut you a check, or do they just Venmo you the money?
How long have you been a hype man? Is the business lucrative?
More excuses, only these are missing facts. You act like Wheeler was playing with a bunch of honkeys from Nebraska.
He had 3 seniors on that roster with him, all of which scored at least 8.5ppg and two of them snagged 4rpg.
He also had Camara (12 & 8) and KD Johnson (13.5 & 3). Stop acting like he was the only guy they had.
And give me a flippin' break, 35mpg shouldn’t result in turning the ball over damn near 5 times per game. Is he already tired 4 minutes into the game?
If he realizes he isn't needed to be a 15 PPG scorer and his job is to facilitate the offense and get the ball to the right people at the right time he will do well. If he doesn't and tries to force shots, passes, etc he will not. Its that simple.
You do realize Wheeler had nearly a 2:1 assist to TO ratio, correct? Not sure why so many of you are just looking at the TO numbers. It really isn’t that difficult
"guys ignore the 4 turnovers a game and look at dee assists, it not hard!!11"
You look at the turnover numbers and the extremely low 3pt shooting percentage because any flaw you have will he exposed and you know what, this is UK, this ain't Louisville or Cleveland state.
Man some of you guys are unreal on just looking at the TO numbers. I can’t believe the stupidity. You do realize he assisted and attributed to almost twice as many points then his TO’s “could” have led to? Basic basketball math. You think a 4 assist 2 TO guy is better simply because he only had 2 TO’s a game?
Your wrong on many levels. Just because he can hit 2 point at a better rate doesn’t mean his 3s are misconstrued. Otherwise that would be true for all players. Some players just don’t have the range. Your kinda talking like your his dad or something trying to convince UK to adore him. We had plenty of shooters last year. We need makers on this team and unfortunately for him you can’t be on the court saying if he makes 4 more his 3 point percentage isn’t as embarrassing when he misses. If he was capable of hitting those 4 or 8 more 3s your crying about he would have, but he didn’t.
You're taking this too seriously. It’s a message board and we are only chatting. Nobody is saying the guy sucks, but you have to admit, there are a couple if things that are concerning about wheeler and after the season we just had, that shouldn't be a surprise.
Georgia played the fastest pace in all of power conference basketball. Wheeler played 35 minutes a game. His stats were inflated in totals per game...assists and turnovers.
Overall...good little talent...but not good enough to start for a title contending team. If he's a 20 minutes off the bench, perfect. If he's 25-30 minutes starting....well at least 2022-23 will be a dominant year!
This is a gap year. Jai Lucas got here too late and we fired Justus too late. Give Antigua, Chin, & Lucas an actual summer to work....we'll never settle for the last resort option again..
Skyy Clarkk, Jaden Brady, Keyonte George? So many others....not to mention Allen/Fredrick should be back....
Just cheer hard for this group and maybe they'll get a lucky sweet 16 type run. THen....2022-23 will be when we're back in a big way...we'll be running teams off the court like we were...
Overall...good little talent...but not good enough to start for a title contending team. If he's a 20 minutes off the bench, perfect. If he's 25-30 minutes starting....well at least 2022-23 will be a dominant year!
This is a gap year. Jai Lucas got here too late and we fired Justus too late. Give Antigua, Chin, & Lucas an actual summer to work....we'll never settle for the last resort option again..
Skyy Clarkk, Jaden Brady, Keyonte George? So many others....not to mention Allen/Fredrick should be back....
Just cheer hard for this group and maybe they'll get a lucky sweet 16 type run. THen....2022-23 will be when we're back in a big way...we'll be running teams off the court like we were...
No excuses, and you make some fair points. BUT, you can not compare the 15-16 UK team to the 20-21 Georgia team. Tyler may not have had a big man to throw to, but he had a lot better talent around him to help him.
27-9 (13-5 SEC)
SEC champion Reg Season and Tournament
10th in the final poll (means they where a top 10 team for the year)
Beat #5 Duke / #16 UL / #17 A&M /
Had Jamal Murray (lotto pick / 20+ ppg NBA star) I know he was not a big for Ulis to throw it to. Instead Murray scored 3 pts. instead of a big scoring 2.
5 Star Isiah Briscoe (playing pro)
Sr. Alex Poythress (played in the NBA)
Jr. Derek Willis (played in the NBA, pro leagues)
Maybe not a big man, but obviously there was talent around him, or they would not have won 27 games. They did have Marcus lee and Skal (even if he didn't live up to ranking).
14-12 (7-11 SEC (10th)
85th rank at the end of the year
Lost in first round of SEC tournament
Nada , none, zero, no post season play. But Georgia had so much talent, they didn't win ****. Everybody scored because nobody was elite or real good. Hell the Washington Generals probably had 5 guys in DD's in scoring, Does not mean they where good. Somebody has to score.
Not one current Georgia except MAYBE KD Johnson will see the NBA, UK had SEVERAL.
Tyler Ulis is a exception to the rule, how is it fair to compare him and Wheeler ? Tyler was special.
Good thing we are not recruiting KD Johnson to. I can hear fans now, "I do not want him, sounds like excuses for him, yes he can help the situation, but no way he is as good as Jamal Murray or Malik Monk. Not even close. Hell he is not even as good as Doron Lamb.
In reality, Tyler Ulis was just on another level. 4+ turns a game is a ton, way too many regardless of who his teammate's were. I could see some of those turnovers being blamed on his teammates, but not as many as you think.
A good pg knows his teams limitations, Wheeler just needs to learn how to not force things and let the game slow down. He plays fast, probably too fast.
That’s what I’m saying plus as everyone knows even as good as TyTy is he will struggle some early most likely. It’s always nice to have experience to help in games we need it early and for him to learn from. I’m assuming we get TyTy but word all day is he’s committing tonight at 9.