Jackie calls this weekend a win for MSU

[3000lbchicken]

He says there is only one position on Vandy's team that is better than MSU; that's qb. Every other position, we've got them beat. We should win the game.

big chickens thought's - he left out coaching but anyway...

On Tony Franklin - Jackie says that TT's first priority is with his players. He has to provide them with a chance to win. The OC is getting paid $200k + a year and is not getting the job done, plain and simple. TT had to make that decision.
He described some coaches as being schemers but not real coaches because they don't understand technique - referring to some of the spread offenses here too.

big chickens thought's - I agree totally. Wish he said that about our OC. I kindof miss him.

 

[3000lbchicken]

He says there is only one position on Vandy's team that is better than MSU; that's qb. Every other position, we've got them beat. We should win the game.

big chickens thought's - he left out coaching but anyway...

On Tony Franklin - Jackie says that TT's first priority is with his players. He has to provide them with a chance to win. The OC is getting paid $200k + a year and is not getting the job done, plain and simple. TT had to make that decision.
He described some coaches as being schemers but not real coaches because they don't understand technique - referring to some of the spread offenses here too.

big chickens thought's - I agree totally. Wish he said that about our OC. I kindof miss him.

 

[3000lbchicken]

He says there is only one position on Vandy's team that is better than MSU; that's qb. Every other position, we've got them beat. We should win the game.

big chickens thought's - he left out coaching but anyway...

On Tony Franklin - Jackie says that TT's first priority is with his players. He has to provide them with a chance to win. The OC is getting paid $200k + a year and is not getting the job done, plain and simple. TT had to make that decision.
He described some coaches as being schemers but not real coaches because they don't understand technique - referring to some of the spread offenses here too.

big chickens thought's - I agree totally. Wish he said that about our OC. I kindof miss him.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really suck.

really.

Like, the ball goes backwards.

 

[Brutius]

Net Punting:

34. Vanderbilt
79. Mississippi State.

Punt return yardage defense:

6. Vanderbilt
93. Mississippi State.

 

[3000lbchicken]

Really.

 

[Porkchop.sixpack]

And I thoght you had me on "ignor".....it was ig-something.

 

[cowbell9]

nm

 

[MSUCostanza]

But our stupid fans will cheer him.

He is the sole reason we are a 17ing joke of a football program right now.

 

[BriantheDawg]

Signed,

Coach Croom

He is the sole reason we are a 17ing joke of a football program right now.

 

[cowbell9]

nm

 

[MSUCostanza]

we wouldn't have to deal with Croom and his foolishness. Like I said below, if he had quit when he lost the fire instead of not doing **** for 3 years, we'd be in a much better place now. Mainly because someone other than Croom would be the coach.

 

[BriantheDawg]

instead of letting things get so far out of control we are now in the dark ages of football hell. It's been well documented that the Kang had some major personal issues but it is the AD's responsibility to make the necessary changes WHEN they need to be made. Jackie just lost it, but I can't fault him. He should have been fired a year, maybe two before he quit. I fault LT for letting things get so far out of control that we are in the situation we're currently in. Jackie showed us we could win. Took us to the next level. His intentions were always good, in my opinion of course, he just lost it. For some reason I can't hate the guy, all because of that feeling I remember so well when KP returned that punt to give us the lead against UT. I'm afraid I may never have that feeling again.

 

[War Machine Dawg]

Regardless of how things ended, JWS was still the best coach we've ever had and did more for the program than anyone in our entire sad history. He showed us we could win and should expect to win. If it weren't for him, a large portion of our fans would still be content with Crxxms instead of demanding changes. You can say whatever you want, but the bottom line is what's done is done, and the current mess is on Crxxms. A good coach could have come in and been relatively successful immediately. Unfortunately, Crxxms is a terrible coach.

 

[cowbell9]

nm

 

[bonedaddy401]

you wouldn't believe we could ever have any kind of success in football. How many coaches before him took us to ATL? How many went to as many bowls as him? How many sent as many people to the NFL? Did any coach before him give you any semblance of hope?

He is why your pissed off right now for two reasons.

1.) He let it get out of control.

2.) He made you expect to win and be pissed when we didn't.

Get over it, he is the best football coach Mississippi State University has ever had.

 

[MSUCostanza]

If not for Jackie's ******** from 2001-2003, we wouldn't be stuck with this jackass we're stuck with now. We could've hired a real coach instead of begging somebody to take the job. Jackie screwed us by giving up, quitting recruiting, quitting on the fans and players, and getting us on probation again. F that sorry sack of shat. He is the reason we're stuck with Croom. Croom's over his head. JWS should've retired in 2001 and we could've hired practically anyone. Instead, by 2004, no decent up and coming coach in their right mind would've taken our job.

 

[MSUCostanza]

Jackie says that TT's first priority is with his players. He has to provide them with a chance to win. The OC is getting paid $200k + a year and is not getting the job done, plain and simple. TT had to make that decision.
He described some coaches as being schemers but not real coaches because they don't understand technique - referring to some of the spread offenses here too.

that's rich coming from Sherrill. The same guy that hired Curley Hallman, John Blake, and Ron Cooper. What an asshat.

 

[cowbell9]

nm

 

[dawgstudent]

and I choose to remember 91-2000 Sherrill. He definitely was as bad as Croom for 2001-2003 but the guy did some good for State.

 

[redfish66]

five years in for any coach in any situation like ours is plenty of time to turn it around. jackie has zero to do with today. zero.

we had a lot of options in 2004 but instead went the pc route and screwed ourselves with a bad pick.

 

[MSUCostanza]

I remember 91-00 Sherrill too. But what he did to end his career, I can't forget.

 

[War Machine Dawg]

You were able to see 2001 coming. Because quite frankly, every last damn one of us, yourself included if you have the balls to admit it, expected 2001 to be a banner year for MState & JWS. 2003, yeah, you could see it coming. But to say he should have retired after the Snow Bowl is asinine. And we've got a whole thread below proving JWS didn't quit recruiting. He got decent players in here that a coach could win with. And no one forced LT to hire our current assclown HC. He had legitimate interest from at least 1 good young coach and 1 proven head coach, but refused to talk to either. Instead, he immediately focused on Crxxms, every other interested candidate be damned. So no, we aren't stuck with Crxxms because of JWS. We're stuck with Crxxms because of LT.

 

[dawgstudent]

[No message]

 

[whatever.sixpack]

Jackie didn't quit recruiting, those might've actually been some his best classes ever on paper. That's what baffles me, because I can't really get a grasp for what happened.
Ironically, we may have had more NFL players on the 03 roster than we've ever had on any one team, even the 98-99 teams.
One thing that's underrated is that LSU, Auburn, and Bama where all relatively down when we were really having our heyday, especially in 99 when we didn't have to play the Big 3 from the East. Starting in 00, the Big 3 in the West haven't been down all at the same time, and now that Bama has Saban, they may never be again.

 

[patdog]

and I choose to remember 91-2000 Sherrill.

I don't blame you for trying to repress the memory of 2001-2003 from your mind. But the fact still remains, if Jackie hadn't screwed us over those years we'd never be in the shape we're in now. And if anybody ever mentioned Sly Crxxm, we'd all say, "Oh yeah, isn't he that black guy Alabama almost hired several years ago?"

 

[LightninInside]

When I think of MSU Football success, I think of Jackie Sherrill. Sure, hindsight tells us that he stayed 3 years too long, but hell, we owed him that considering the success he brought us. It is probably difficult to admit to yourself that you can not succeed at that point in your career. He probably felt like he could put the family issues aside and still be able to coach and manage personalities as good as he had just 5 years prior.
The most exciting games ever were under JS's watch. The most feared we have ever been by our SEC rivals is under the JS years. Our defense was made up of crazed maniacs. Our offense led by Madkin had its ups and downs but you always felt like we had a chance. 4th and 15? We went for it and got it, twice, against Arkansas. Snow Bowl, one of the most memorable bowl games of all time. Tearing down the goalposts and carrying them down University Drive. All that under JS's watch and I'm glad my son got to experience that.

He lost control at the end and it was sad to see him go, but I won't forget the excitement and pride that he brought to our program. If we would have hired a good coach after his departure, we would be winning again. To blame CC's failure on JS is simply not fair. The fact is that CC is not a good coach. He would have destroyed any program in the SEC. It just so happens that we were the only ones willing to try.

 

[dawgstudent]

he should have resigned after the 2002 season.

 

[patdog]

Sure, hindsight tells us that he stayed 3 years too long, but hell, we owed him that considering the success he brought us.

Nobody owes any coach anything for past success. When he's not producing, he's got to go, either voluntarily or forcfully. 2001 looked like an anomaly at the time, but by the end of the 2002 season, it was time for Sherrill to go.

 

[DowntownDawg]

...was the lingering NCAA cloud that surrounded Starkville for way too long. As has been discussed, the actual penalties weren't that bad. Is that Jackie's fault? Somewhat. You can make the argument that he didn't get caught doing anything, but the combination of his reputation and his success was too much for Ole Miss to take, and so we have a witch hunt that lasted way too long, with rumors of the death penalty being tossed around in Oxford. I guarantee you that we could've gotten somebody better in 2003 if there wasn't so much NCAA uncertainty around the program. And even though Jackie's last few classes had talented skill players, they turned out to be thugs and drug addicts. And those classes had very little offensive and defensive line talent in them, which is the way he always won (having a good line). Jackie, Ole Miss,LT, and the NCAA all share an equal portion of blame to me for our situation when we were coach hunting in 2003.

 

[MSUCostanza]

after 2001 at the least. He didn't have the fire anymore. My theory - he wanted the Alabama job and when they didn't even contact him after firing Dubose in '00, he lost his edge.

The fact is, him staying in 2002 and 2003 really cost us a chance to hire a decent replacement. Instead we got stuck with (forced into) hiring Croom. So, I still blame him for getting us in the mess that forced us to make a poor hire, which has compounded the mess even further.

 

[Stansfield]

Shouldn't Croom be retiring for the same reason? Croom knows that it wasn't his coaching that got us to 8-5 last year. Shouldn't Croom have retired after 2007?

 

[patdog]

Other schools have been through NCAA investigations and it didn't kill their programs. Tommy Tuberville took over Mississippi right after they'd been through an NCAA investigation as bad as ours was, and with penalties far worse than we got, and he had them in a bowl game in year 3 and never lost a non-conference game in 4 years there.

What killed our program was Jackie recruiting classes that lacked any depth of talent and that included a lot of bad apples and then Jackie letting the inmates run the asylum his last few years. When you have starters telling coaches to f--- off when the coaches try to get them to do strength and conditioning work and walking out of spring practice after getting in an argument with a coach then coming back in as a starter immediately in the fall, that's not the fault of the NCAA or any investigation. That's Jackie's fault.

But even if everything were the fault of the NCAA investigation, which is a huge myth, it's STILL Jackie's fault. Because the Ramada Inn fiasco was a major violation and a lack of institutional control. That alone was plenty for the NCAA to nail us on. And that one was all on Jackie.</p>

 

[patdog]

Of course, it's Crxxm's fault we're in the state we're in now. But it's Sherrill's fault too for getting us in this state to start with. If he hadn't done that, we'd have never known who Crxxm was.

 

[DowntownDawg]

...the difference is that when we were trying to hire a coach, nobody knew what was going to happen. Was the coach going to step into a death penalty scenario? Was the punishment going to be light? Who knew? The timing of it screwed us. Even if the penalties had been announced the day before the 2003 egg bowl, we'd have been in better shape. I wouldn't take a job under those circumstances, and so we're left with Croom. And that is one more reason that we felt like we needed to get Croom. Hire somebody like Neuheisal and we get hammered, hire somebody like Croom, and it's light.

Whose fault is that? Well obviously, even if you could pretend that Jackie was totally innocent, he had a say in his own reputation. And he loved to rub it in OM's face, and so their fanbase was fuming, which brought on the investigation. The NCAA investigator was corrupt and it took forever. All these things conspired against us when hiring a coach.

A separate issue is the situation the coach inherited. And I agree with you 100% that it was bad. And I do think Jackie got lazy in his recruiting and started buying more guys. Dontae Walker had him by the balls quite obviously. Jackie is to blame a great deal.

 

[DowntownDawg]

...Croom should retire as reigning SEC COY does not equal Jackie retiring after going 3-8.

 

[Stansfield]

...Croom should retire as reigning SEC COY does not equal Jackie retiring after going 3-8.

Jackie had gone 8-4 the year before with an Independence Bowl victory. He had one losing season. Why would he automatically retire? No one could have predicted that 02 and 03 would have been so bad. Along your same logic Croom should have retired after his 3rd year for sure. He never proved he could win. At least Jackie had proved that he could win and could take us places. He deserved us giving him that chance. I don't see where Croom has earned anything for us to give him as many chances as we have given him. You wanted us to just throw Jackie to the wolves after almost a decade of the best football state has ever played because of one bad year, but you want us to keep giving Croom chance after chance just because he lucked into 7 wins after his 4th year??? That makes no sense.

 

[Keyser Soze.sixpack]

Jackie is the sole reason that we ever experienced any success on the football field. </p>

 

[DowntownDawg]

...but I think Costanza is saying that only Jackie knew when it was time to go, when he had lost the fire, and Jackie should've been a man and admitted that and resigned.

 

[MSUCostanza]

If you can't see the difference, you either weren't paying attention in 2001-2-3, or you just aren't real bright.

Jackie lost the fire. He should've retired while we still had a chance at being competitive. Instead, he stayed 2 extra years and drove us to football hell, which led to us basically having to hire Croom. Had he quit when he was still relatively on top, we could've hired anyone we wanted to, and none of us would've never heard of Croom, and I imagine our turnaround would've come much more quickly. I don't understand why you folks can't grasp this concept that Sherrill can be blamed for creating the mess which led to the even worse mess we find ourselves in now. It's a cause and effect situation. Sherrill's stubbornness and refusal to leave led us to Croom and the ******** we are in now. Croom is to blame for his inability to turn things around from that point, but without Sherrill's ridiculousness to begin with, there is no Croom.