Jackie on Texas/Mack Brown..

[57stratdawg]

"Once it starts going down hill, it's tough to stop until it reaches the bottom".

Yes, yes it is Jackie. Saw Finebaum tweet that, assuming JWS was on his show earlier.

 

[maroonmania]

"Once it starts going down hill, it's tough to stop until it reaches the bottom".

Yes, yes it is Jackie. Saw Finebaum tweet that, assuming JWS was on his show earlier.

Well, with Jackie's last 3 years with us it reached bottom and we still couldn't stop it.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

The NCAA, Julie Gilbert and her boyfriend made sure of that.

 

[121Josey]

Well, with Jackie's last 3 years with us it reached bottom and we still couldn't stop it.

That's because we made it jump track.

 

[Heawww]

Nah, disagree. 2003 was the bottom. It gets no worse than that. We let it go a year too long. We could have stopped it after 2002 and Jackie probably still would have gotten a statue. Ole Miss learned their lesson, they stopped their train before it had a 2003 type season, which they would have surely had last year if Nutt was still at the helm. And damn, if there was ever a lesson learned here, it's that you NEVER fire a coach mid-season, you basically guarantee you will lose out. Might as well give yourself a chance.

We made a bad hire in Croom, but let's look at facts, he left the roster in better shape than he found it. Just should have had better results on the field. It was his gameday coaching that held him back.

That deal was on LT, and he got exactly what he wanted out of the deal.

 

[maroonmania]

Nah, disagree. 2003 was the bottom. It gets no worse than that. We let it go a year too long. We could have stopped it after 2002 and Jackie probably still would have gotten a statue. Ole Miss learned their lesson, they stopped their train before it had a 2003 type season, which they would have surely had last year if Nutt was still at the helm. And damn, if there was ever a lesson learned here, it's that you NEVER fire a coach mid-season, you basically guarantee you will lose out. Might as well give yourself a chance.

We made a bad hire in Croom, but let's look at facts, he left the roster in better shape than he found it. Just should have had better results on the field. It was his gameday coaching that held him back.

That deal was on LT, and he got exactly what he wanted out of the deal.

Heck, I would be good with giving JWS a statue now. 90% of my best memories of MSU football are found in the first 10 years of the JWS era.

 

[Heawww]

I would almost agree, but 2003 caused much suffering for MSU football that took a long time to recover from. No one person is to blame, but at the same time, our football history can't be summed up by Jackie Sherrill either.

 

[esplanade91]

I think the belief that Croom left us with a better roster than he came here with is the worst misconception at MSU. More balanced? Maybe. It still wasn't very balanced, and Mullen's recruiting classes where he went and offered 100 WR's scholarships or one specific position are a result of that. Don't we have like 13 seniors this year?

Individual talent when Croom took over was so much better than the individual talent Mullen inherited. Horrible, horrible team though... but player for player Croom took over a lot better roster. The difference was Mullen had very few asses to kick. Croom had to blow everything up.

And I'd give Jackie a statue. He's the reason most of us sit here and argue about whether Mullen should be fired for not being able to win the big game or get over the 6 or 7 game plateau. Jackie is the only modern coach to give us a taste of success and without that taste I'm afraid to think of where MSU would be today. Some coaches deserve statutes for things other than their W-L record. His wife got a degree while he was here and he donated money to expand the library back before that was a thing for mediocre coaches to do (looking at you Nutt)... silly things to bring up but goes to show how much he was a part of the university.

75-75 record is underwhelming but if you remove the last 3 years (I realize the last 3 years count) his record is impressive by almost all SEC schools' standards. I haven't seen an MSU team as good as those late 90's teams since and I don't think we'll ever recruit at the level he was recruiting at. Our love and loyalty to a 75-75 coach deserves the ridicule it gets from Ole Miss fans but Jackie was the ****.

 

[Heawww]

I think the belief that Croom left us with a better roster than he came here with is the worst misconception at MSU. More balanced? Maybe. It still wasn't very balanced, and Mullen's recruiting classes where he went and offered 100 WR's scholarships or one specific position are a result of that. Don't we have like 13 seniors this year?

Individual talent when Croom took over was so much better than the individual talent Mullen inherited. Horrible, horrible team though... but player for player Croom took over a lot better roster. The difference was Mullen had very few asses to kick. Croom had to blow everything up.

I think I'd rather have the balance. I'm sure people have done the comparisons of NFL talent on the team in 2004 and 2009. So let's just call it a push and say Croom 'stabilized' the program, and at minimum, it wasn't at complete rock bottom like 2003 and arguably 2002.

75-75 record is underwhelming but if you remove the last 3 years (I realize the last 3 years count) his record is impressive by almost all SEC schools' standards. I haven't seen an MSU team as good as those late 90's teams since and I don't think we'll ever recruit at the level he was recruiting at. Our love and loyalty to a 75-75 coach deserves the ridicule it gets from Ole Miss fans but Jackie was the ****.

Take away 2003 and he's 73-65-2 (42-51-1). Take away 2002 and he's 70-56-2 (42-43-1). That, coupled with the fact that he went out with a win over Eli and Ole Miss in 2001, would make him statue worthy. 2002 is debatable, but after 2003, you just can't do it. It went too far. I was there.

 

[RocketDawg]

Jackie did indeed "make" MSU football by his teams in the 90s. Give him a statue. And as far as I know, he still comes to games. Didn't see him Saturday but I didn't look either. His seats were near me in previous years.

 

[Rezpup]

The NCAA, Julie Gilbert and her boyfriend made sure of that.

The wildly unpredictable NCAA decided they wanted to get Jackie and it didn't matter if they had the goods or not.
we lawyered up well for that hearing in Indianapolis and showed they had nothing on us but hearsay from a recruits grandad but they still nailed us just bc they could and wanted to.
thats the only reason Jackie's tenure ended the way it did.

 

[was21]

State has never had a football coach that deserves a statue. It's actually obscene that Saban has one at Alabama still being alive. On the other hand, Vaught probably deserves one at OM if there isn't already one there.

 

[esplanade91]

But my point is that he STILL didn't leave us with a balanced roster. Both left MSU in horrible shape, but the roster Jackie left Croom didn't suck because 90% of the players didn't belong playing SEC football. Croom followed the "you can never have enough RB's and DL" model of recruiting while preaching accountability and being a man while the Kang got a bunch of man-children who were great to at football and let them run the prison.

Croom sucked and in large part because Jackie was awesome. I don't care what his record was. Snyder is likely going to have the worst season he's had in his career and he'll likely "retire" again when it ends... should they remove his statue because he sucked when he left? Vince Dooley was fired... try telling Georgia fans he doesn't deserve a statue. You're an MSU fan... going 75-75 and fielding 2 of the best teams in school history over a 13 year period is equivalent to another school's Vince Dooley. Sad, but true.

 

[Felonious Junk]

Jackie did indeed "make" MSU football by his teams in the 90s. Give him a statue. And as far as I know, he still comes to games. Didn't see him Saturday but I didn't look either. His seats were near me in previous years.

He wasnt there but he does go to a couple games every year

 

[thatsbaseball]

I don`t know how far back you go but Bob Tyler IMO was the savior of MSU football. If we hadn`t hired him when we did or had OM hired before we did I`m not sure we would still be in the SEC. Most of us who were around and involved at that time probably share that sentiment.

edited to add: Tyler left us loaded

 

[Heawww]

Croom sucked and in large part because Jackie was awesome. I don't care what his record was. Snyder is likely going to have the worst season he's had in his career and he'll likely "retire" again when it ends... should they remove his statue because he sucked when he left? Vince Dooley was fired... try telling Georgia fans he doesn't deserve a statue. You're an MSU fan... going 75-75 and fielding 2 of the best teams in school history over a 13 year period is equivalent to another school's Vince Dooley. Sad, but true.

No, it's not true. I won't argue about the Croom vs. Mullen inherited talent stuff, it could go either way. But King Jackie doesn't deserve a statue. He gets credit for making MSU realize that we COULD play elite level football, showing us a blueprint for it, and his record. All the same, 2002 and 2003 happened. Dooley and Snyder didn't get anywhere close to that level of meltdown. I don't know if it was his ego, the incompetency of the AD, or both. But 2003 should not have happened. But it did, and it's done. And for all intents and purposes, MSU football tradition hasn't really been written yet.

 

[121Josey]

State has never had a football coach that deserves a statue. It's actually obscene that Saban has one at Alabama still being alive. On the other hand, Vaught probably deserves one at OM if there isn't already one there.

Probably has something to do with Atlanta.**

 

[121Josey]

but at the same time, our football history can't be summed up by Jackie Sherrill either.

Yes it can. Unless you count a 9-win gator bowl season as having a lasting effect on the program.

 

[121Josey]

Ole Miss learned their lesson, they stopped their train before it had a 2003 type season, which they would have surely had last year if Nutt was still at the helm.

Is there a difference between 2-10 MSU 2003 and 2-10 TSUN 2011?

 

[Heawww]

Until proven otherwise, MSU football tradition is nothing but a series of peaks amongst alot of valleys with the highest peak being in the Fall of 1980. Jackie provided more peaks than others, but not the highest. And a few get cancelled out because he also took us deeper than we'd ever been.

Some of you have short memories.