Jair Jurrjens optioned to AAA.

[boomboommsu]

The right move, but still surprising. Too bad we can't send Durbin with him.

Not trading JJ last year might go down as one of the Braves' all time worst non-moves. Missed the playoffs by 1 game, and since the last All-Star break Jurrjens has 1 win and an ERA of almost 7.

 

[boomboommsu]

The right move, but still surprising. Too bad we can't send Durbin with him.

Not trading JJ last year might go down as one of the Braves' all time worst non-moves. Missed the playoffs by 1 game, and since the last All-Star break Jurrjens has 1 win and an ERA of almost 7.

 

[missouridawg]

.

 

[mstatefan88]

He went from potential Cy Young winnerat the All Star break last year to Triple A Gwinnett in 9 months. We are deep enough to where it's not going to hurt us though if he stays for an extended period of time. Huddy comes back today and I'm perfectly ok with Huddy, Hanson, Beachy, Minor, and Delgado. Also have Medlen in the bullpen and we could call up Teheran if we need to. I think we will be ok without him because right now anything is better than a guy with a 9+ ERA. </p>

 

[jcdawgman18]

The Braves are looking like they won't get ANYTHING out of Jurrjens now. And there were definitely trades that could have been made.

 

[mullenfan1]

Frank Wren has to be the worst General Manager in baseball...until the Braves get rid of him they will be bottom dwellers...

 

[MSUArrowCS]

due to the injuries. They could have definitely pulled the trigger near the deadline, but in the offseason everyone knew his knee was a problem.

As long as we keep Durbin away from any leads, who cares. I'd much rather keep him and Livan in the Majors for mop-up duty than have Gearrin or someone else from AAA not getting regular work.

 

[Bobby Ricigliano]

br

 

[MSUArrowCS]

There's really only one problem with the entire roster, in that it's heavy with left-handed bats. That factors into about 1 out of every 4 games. The bullpen and starting rotation are both set up for years, as are the power spots in the lineup (McCann, Freeman, Heyward).

Yet somehow, Frank Wren is the worst GM in baseball. Was it because he didn't ship out a young pitcher at the deadline last year? Because he wasn't willing to trade Prado and Tehran for a single right-handed bat in the offseason? Please explain.

 

[mullenfan1]

I guess what I meant to say is unless they get a new GM they will become bottom dwellers...if he keeps waisting what little money the Braves spend on players like Derek Lowe, Matt Diaz, Livan Hernandez, &Julio Lugo for example they will keep coming up short and not make the playoffs..</p>

 

[alabamadog]

Why can't we send him down to AAA? I would send him down and bring up Varvaro.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

but still won 15 games his first two years in Atlanta. That move was dictated by the Yankees paying what they did for AJ Burnett, which jacked up the SP market that offseason. Had we not signed a top FA pitcher that year, we'd have been even worse and Wren would have been bashed even more. On those other three you're complaining about a 2 million dollar contract in Diaz and two contracts worth less than 1 million each in Livan and Lugo.

Meanwhile, the lineup which you say is doomed for bottom-dwelling is leading the NL in runs scored, primarily led by two 22 year-olds and two of Wren's acquisitions in Bourn and Uggla. I haven't agreed with every move either, but by all accounts, the in-game management (especially of pitchers) is a much bigger problem than anyone in the Braves' front office.

 

[boomboommsu]

With his extensive injury history, anyone would have had to figure in a signficant possibility of injury, right? Sure, he claims he's not injured right now, but it's the same outcome.

I saw the non-trade as a middle-management cop-out type move, by a career yes-man and not a leader. It's unusual to move an All-Star midseason from a contender, but it's even more unusual to have said All-Star overachieving, AND have multiple options lined up behind him, AND have your entire rotation signed for the next year blocking multiple said options. A JJ trade was the obvious right move, Wren just didn't make it because he'd get blasted by the idiot fans and talk shows. And he gets paid to not make that mistake.

And i don't have a problem with Livan pitching mop-up duty, or Durbin in blowouts, but i KNOW Fredi won't use either that way. And watching Flande and Gearrin put up 0.00 ERAs in Gwinnett isn't helping my feelings about it. Now they are stretching Flande out, so i'm ok with him being down, and Gearrin isa ROOGY who Fredi didn't use correctly last year either, so i guess i shouldn't blame Wren for this one.

I'm actually a fan of the Livan signing. He showed his value last night, and i guarantee he gets a pinch hit sometime this year. The Durbin signing though mystifies me. He's Scott Proctor 2.0.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

Varvaro is still on rehab, and on top of that, Durbin is nearly the last option in any close game. No need to waste an option on Gearrin or rush Varvaro or Moylan (when healthy) back to play that role.

Durbin has been in 7 games, and hasn't given up an earned run in his last 4. If they want to get rid of him at some point, they'll probably just cut him. Until then, I don't think he's going anywhere.

 

[boomboommsu]

Durbin signed a Major League free agent contract. He can't be sent to the minors without his permission. JJ has never signed a FA contract, he is still under team control, and has 'options' left, meaning the team can send him down to the minors. I think it works like this: once you are drafted/signed, you can be 'optioned' to the minors a set number of times (3 from when you are first called up?). After that, the team must carry you on the ML roster permanently, or place you on waivers. Waivers means any other team can claim you. If none claim you, then you can be sent back to the minors. At some point, you become a FA if you are not carried on the ML roster.

It's very unusual for a 5th year player to be optioned. Generally, if a team thinks you might not be good enough to keep on the team, then they won't want to pay your several million $ 2nd-year arbitration salary, you'd be released first.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

He'd come back from other injuries to still have success, too. Wren fielded offers and ended up not pulling the trigger for whatever reason. He also landed Bourn and Uggla, two huge parts of the lineup this year. I just don't see "getting nothing for JJ" as justification alone for getting rid of him in the middle of last season.

I'm not sure about the Durbin signing either, but it's so low-risk that it's hardly a factor. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he gets cut once Moylan or Varvaro is healthy, but in the mean time, he's a guy who has been in the NL East for a while and is over the age of 30. If he settles in to a contributing role, that would be even better.

 

[boomboommsu]

He's like a really good pitcher, who's only problem is the occaisional fat pitch he leaves/hangs over the plate. 'Fat pitches' being the yearly mystifying signings of crappy 'veterans' for millions when there's a rookie who could put up the same numbers for the league minimum. At the ML level, consistency matters. To make it worse, he's incapable of admitting when he's wrong, letting a bad signing harm the team for weeks or months after he should have been released, like a pitcher who loses his cool and turns every small mistake into a horrible inning.

We traded Ascencio for $10k a few weeks ago, btw. Not many noticed that. Completely unexplainable.

 

[boomboommsu]

They also sent Flande back to the minors after telling him he'd made the team, and traded Ascencio (out of options) for 10k. Do you think any reasonable person would look at Durbin's and Ascencio's numbers, and conclude that not only would Durbin be better, but several million $ better?

Btw, he also loaded the bases in two of those last 4. They can cut him, but still owe him the $. It's not like they signed him for the minimum.

And i don't think Gearrin's options are gonna matter. But i haven't really considered that.

 

[boomboommsu]

They just don't have the payroll to compete in the NL East without making that type of move.

Durbin SHOULD be low-risk, but with Fredi's managing he won't be. See Scott Proctor. Just cutting Proctor one week earlier would have put the Braves in the playoffs.

And i can understand Wren signing all the 'vets' for the bullpen last year, being the first without Wagner and with Kimbrel being an untested commodity. But there was no reason for it this year.</p>

 

[MSUArrowCS]

Derek Lowe is the closest I can think of, and we did manage to dump him 1/3 of his remaining contract after he went less than .500 over a season. Other big contracts have been traded early for something (e.g., Javy Vazquez). Lugo and many others paid less than a million.

In my mind, the worst things Wren does is the non-moves, like knowing we need a right-handed bat and have for years but doing nothing to make that happen. I don't consider not trading Jurjjens to be one of those, but that's much closer to a valid criticism than saying he piles up crappy veterans for millions.

As for admitting that he's wrong, what would that even look like for a GM? Cutting guys quicker?

 

[alabamadog]

and even though he is the last option in a close game, I wouldn't be surprised if Gonzalez still put him in during some close games. I forgot Varvaro isn't healthy yet. <div>
</div><div>I admittedly don't have any proof because this isn't the kind of thing you can find in his stats, but part of the reason he has gotten through the last four appearances without giving up runs is that batters have hit the ball hard right at people. </div>

 

[GerryBertier]

The biggest problem right now isn't the front office, it's Fredi Gonzalez. His game management, especially on the bullpen side is terrible. There really wasn't a viable LF option in the off season that was worth what we'd have to give up. The market will look much better this off season or maybe even in July. We will also have more money available after this season. If we were going to trade JJ, it needed to be last summer but the right deal just wasn't there. We had no idea at the time he'd get injured and lose all of his movement.

The young guys in Gwinnett are there for a reason. We need them to gain experience more than we need them in the Majors currently. Durbin and Livan are inning eaters in games that aren't close, keeping our quality pen arms fresh....unlike last year.

 

[boomboommsu]

Upon review, Mark Kotsay (trade, 2008), Tom Glavine (2008, $8M! and cut without making the team), Garrett Anderson (2009, $2.5M), Troy Glaus (2010 $1.75M + incentives up to $2.5M). I did say signed, but there are many more that were traded for. Norton was signed for 'only' $800K, but he has to be included for going 11 for 79. Can't find Durbin's salary, but IIRC it was over $1M.

To be fair, many of those i was thinking of were signed by Schuerholtz (Bennett, Redman, Mondesi).

Every year, it's somebody. Somebody nobody else wanted usually (Durbin was signed the last day of spring training), yet they were paid far over the minimum.

And yes, admitting he's wrong would be cutting someone quicker. See Proctor below.

I didn't even include Kawakami, as that doesn't fit as an 'aging vet' signing.

Re Proctor:


"On November 4, 2009 Proctor's agent, Mark Rodgers, released that Proctor had signed a split contract with the Braves and received an invitation to Spring Training. He spent 2010 pitching for the Double-A Mississippi Braves and Triple-A Gwinnett Braves. As of August 14, he had compiled a 7.82 ERA in 31 appearances between the 2 teams.</p>

On March 27, 2011 after pitching with a 5.06 ERA in ten appearances in the 2011 Atlanta Braves Spring Training camp, Proctor was released from the Braves' organization. Had he remained on the Braves' roster the following day, his $750,000 salary would have been paid in full. Instead, the Braves merely had to pay him a fraction of his salary.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-4"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></p>

Just over a week after being released from the Braves organization, Proctor resigned to the Braves on April 3, 2011 with a minor league contract. He has been added to the roster of their Triple-A affiliate, the Gwinnett Braves.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-5"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span> He had his contract purchased on May 14.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-6"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></p>

Proctor was released from the Braves on August 10, 2011 after posting a 6.44 ERA in 31 appearances. His roster spot was filled by Arodys Vizcaino.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-7"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span> In two seasons with Atlanta, Proctor, with a record of 2-3, had a 6.43 ERA in 37 appearances, allowing 35 hits, 5 Home runs, 25 earned runs and 23 walks with 24 strikeouts in 35 innings."

I remember all the fans thinking the re-signing was an April Fools' Day joke, that cruelly turned out to be true.</p>

 

[MSUArrowCS]

The payroll is still $83M and you listed one guy in Glavine who made even $3M, and Glaus actually carried the offense for stretches in 2010 on $2.5M. Those seem like the kinds of veteran contracts that almost every team carries.

Clearly we disagree on Wren, but one thing is for sure - with Chipper, JJ, and Hudson coming off the books over the next two years and Bourn likely headed for FA, there will be a lot of moves for him to make.

 

[boomboommsu]

He overpaid on Lowe and Uggla, but probably had to, I'm not knocking him there. It's the bench//bullpen/cheap starter roles that he has a bad record on.

I remember Glaus' May of 2010 very well. He had already shown in April that he couldn't catch up to fastballs anymore, yet for some reason got a steady diet of off-speed pitches that month, and he feasted. Then the fastball diet came back. I'm not going to credit Wren on signing a guy who can't hit a fastball anymore, just because a few teams were too stupid to notice.

Every team does carry that type of veteran, but almost always for a reason, like Atlanta last year when they would otherwise be reliant on an untested Craig Kimbrel, or because they have no depth at that position, (ie Alex Gonzolez the last couple years). Signing a piss-poor FA to take the place of a rookie that is dominating AAA is a mistake we can't afford to make, yet Wren does it every year. Especially when, to make room for the vet, you dump a player without options left for nothing (Ascencio), depriving the team of his services for more than just that year. We lost Resop last year too to keep room for Proctor.</p>