Jim Ellis on Holder...
- Thread starter basedawg
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Not wanting to rain on you but telling your pitcher who just walked a guy to calm down and throw strikes isn't limited to the LaRussa's of the world. There are many reasons to hail Cohen's coaching abilities like the development of Renfroe, Frazier, Pirtle but come on.... "Settle down and throw strikes"
The best thing I heard from Cohen all day was....
....him admitting that he done a bad job of letting these guys have fun over the years and making all to business like. He changed this year, and the club definitely didn't seem as tense
....him admitting that he done a bad job of letting these guys have fun over the years and making all to business like. He changed this year, and the club definitely didn't seem as tense
Agree with that, too. I can remember him throwing complete tirades in the dugout and chewing *** the whole game a few years ago. I think they sent him to some anger management classes, too. He's definitely relaxed some this year and that has translated into winning.
Not wanting to rain on you but, saying you don't want to rain on someone and then going ahead and raining on them, kinda makes the "not wanting to rain on you" part meaningless.
I don't agree with Jim on that
I think Holder was just trying to throw strikes and the zone got REAL tight on him. He wasn't getting very many border line calls- especially on his curve ball. He was almost having to throw it down the pipe to get a call. The first hitter in the ninth got lucky- he had an awful swing and somehow got the barrel on it just enough to serve it over Wes's head. Then we made a couple of errors and it exacerbated things a little bit. None of the balls that they hit off of Holder were well struck at all.
I think Holder was just trying to throw strikes and the zone got REAL tight on him. He wasn't getting very many border line calls- especially on his curve ball. He was almost having to throw it down the pipe to get a call. The first hitter in the ninth got lucky- he had an awful swing and somehow got the barrel on it just enough to serve it over Wes's head. Then we made a couple of errors and it exacerbated things a little bit. None of the balls that they hit off of Holder were well struck at all.
Hey Will James, they are college kids not pro's! Man, I use to be a coach and I can tell you, you have to remind "kids" of the simple things, like fundamentals! Cohen had a lot to do with "righting the ship" in the 9th inning. By going out, he slowed the pace which was a must, kinda like calling timeout in basketball when the other team is going on a run!
I think Holder fell in love too much with his breaking ball and wasn't throwing it for strikes and was falling behind in the count. I think Cohen told him to work the fastball and then use the curve. After Cohen's visit, Holder didn't fall behind another hitter and started them all off with fastballs.
Yeah- I think Cohen and Butch realized pretty quickly we weren't getting the call on the curveball at all, and with them being down they were going to take pitches. That's when we saw Holder go back to the fastball. We were only throwing it to make guys swing and miss basically.
Definitely a chicken and egg debate. Does relaxing translate to wins or do wins (starting 18-0) lead to being relaxed.
I'm watching my recording now, and it looked to me like Holder got called for a lot of balls that could have easily been strikes. They were very close. Still just 1 out where I am in the game, so it may have gotten worse.
Agreed. The first batter got that dink hit and the very next pitch was a perfect curve knee high down the middle that was called for a ball. When that hitter got to 3-0, it nearly got out of control. He got squeezed on another perfect curve later. The strikeout curve was definitely outside and was a makeup call, but the damage with the tight strike zone had already been done.
I think the 8th was so easy for him he lost his concentration just enough to make the difference in being good and being great.
The plate ump had trouble withthe break on holder's curve......
He seemed to be determined to call pitches based on where the catcher caught them instead of where they crossed the plate. Holder's curve broke so sharply he simply refused to give him a call.
He seemed to be determined to call pitches based on where the catcher caught them instead of where they crossed the plate. Holder's curve broke so sharply he simply refused to give him a call.
Jim is right. Holder had some bad luck later in that inning (some of it because of his error), but he was pitching lights out after Cohen came in and settled him down. But he put us in a hole be trying to be too fine and getting behind 3-0 on 2 of the first 3 batters.
He also had a reasonable strike zone to work with that inning. I'm not sure why it got so tight in the ninth. I expect umpires to be consistent- but it is what it is. At least we adjusted to it.