I wonder how Joel Osteen is gonna top this.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/13/living/creflo-dollar-jet-feat/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/13/living/creflo-dollar-jet-feat/index.html
Just another devoted "Man of God".
- Thread starter Wolf J. Flywheel
- Start date
Compare his actions to those commanded by Jesus Christ and you will know what a true man of God looks like. Hint: This guy isn't one of them.
"Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse."
- 2 Timothy 3:12-13
- 2 Timothy 3:12-13
Just another charlatan who fails to forgo riches and give to the poor.
No wonder the secular community laughs and no wonder my loyalties are to Christ, not religion.
As bad as Creflo Dollar, Osteen, and Meyer are, there's hundreds of small, anonymous churches spewing the prosperity doctrine.
No wonder the secular community laughs and no wonder my loyalties are to Christ, not religion.
As bad as Creflo Dollar, Osteen, and Meyer are, there's hundreds of small, anonymous churches spewing the prosperity doctrine.
Re: Just another charlatan who fails to forgo riches and give to the poor.
I dont have a problem with christians being prosperous. I do find the prosperity doctrine to be a sham.
I dont think actions lead one to follow christ. I do think you can typically tell those who follow christ by their actions even if they are not vocal about it.
I dont have a problem with christians being prosperous. I do find the prosperity doctrine to be a sham.
I dont think actions lead one to follow christ. I do think you can typically tell those who follow christ by their actions even if they are not vocal about it.
There is some lavish living
While boarding a private plane to a WVU football game from Bluefield, A very large private Gulfstream jet was landing. I assumed a fairly large number would depart. No, one individual got off and I was told it was "religious organization" and the plane landed there frequently and serving one individual.
I thought it was rather excessive life style for "religion purposes". I briefly compared to our church where we put our annual budget together. Preacher would bounce between threatening and then begging to get pledges to operate the church for another year and carry on the committed help that we had historically offered in our work. Then the next week the officers meeting telling the preacher that his salary and related assistance would be frozen for another year. Remember the preacher pleading his case that he had not received a raise in years and he had a child entering college,
Just to share a little life history when I saw this story of demands being placed thru ministry needs.
While boarding a private plane to a WVU football game from Bluefield, A very large private Gulfstream jet was landing. I assumed a fairly large number would depart. No, one individual got off and I was told it was "religious organization" and the plane landed there frequently and serving one individual.
I thought it was rather excessive life style for "religion purposes". I briefly compared to our church where we put our annual budget together. Preacher would bounce between threatening and then begging to get pledges to operate the church for another year and carry on the committed help that we had historically offered in our work. Then the next week the officers meeting telling the preacher that his salary and related assistance would be frozen for another year. Remember the preacher pleading his case that he had not received a raise in years and he had a child entering college,
Just to share a little life history when I saw this story of demands being placed thru ministry needs.
Tax exempt, too.
Talk about LMAO.
Some of these mega-churches have as much business being tax-exempt as the NFL and NCAA (i.e., none).
I would hope any effort at tax reform would look to revisit the laughable exemptions for 'non-profit' institutions. All across the board, religious or otherwise. I think there is some common sense middle ground that could be reached to get some of these ridiculously big and lavishly spending organizations to pay what they should be paying. The tax-exemption is meant for community organizations, small churches, etc. Not some gilded charlatan flying a private jet around the country to bilk money from gullible morons. Exemptions for universities, NCAA, and sports organizations are even more egregious.
This post was edited on 3/14 1:42 PM by Fingon
Talk about LMAO.
Some of these mega-churches have as much business being tax-exempt as the NFL and NCAA (i.e., none).
I would hope any effort at tax reform would look to revisit the laughable exemptions for 'non-profit' institutions. All across the board, religious or otherwise. I think there is some common sense middle ground that could be reached to get some of these ridiculously big and lavishly spending organizations to pay what they should be paying. The tax-exemption is meant for community organizations, small churches, etc. Not some gilded charlatan flying a private jet around the country to bilk money from gullible morons. Exemptions for universities, NCAA, and sports organizations are even more egregious.
This post was edited on 3/14 1:42 PM by Fingon
Re: Tax exempt, too.
Don't disagree in the least, but would hate to be the one trying to make a living presenting that to SOCUS. Still, it is such a broad shield that it could easily sour the good intention for everyone. It is so totally and obviously wrong that it is ignored.
Don't disagree in the least, but would hate to be the one trying to make a living presenting that to SOCUS. Still, it is such a broad shield that it could easily sour the good intention for everyone. It is so totally and obviously wrong that it is ignored.
Re: Tax exempt, too.
It is across the board, religion, nonprofits, government, politics business it seems there are more and more people who will use any vehicle to featherbed their own at the cost of everyone else. The world is full of a lot of crooks feasting off people who trust them. Blind trust in anyone is not very smart.
This post was edited on 3/14 4:25 PM by orlando eer
It is across the board, religion, nonprofits, government, politics business it seems there are more and more people who will use any vehicle to featherbed their own at the cost of everyone else. The world is full of a lot of crooks feasting off people who trust them. Blind trust in anyone is not very smart.
This post was edited on 3/14 4:25 PM by orlando eer
Re: Tax exempt, too.
Really doesn't bother me at all. I don't think it's any different that multi layered marketing campaigns used to make you think you need X product or widget. It just seems more sinister because it's playing on people's faith. I'm sorry, I just can't see tithing being something that helps get me closer to God.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Really doesn't bother me at all. I don't think it's any different that multi layered marketing campaigns used to make you think you need X product or widget. It just seems more sinister because it's playing on people's faith. I'm sorry, I just can't see tithing being something that helps get me closer to God.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
I'm a member of a church that would be classified as a "mega-church"....
and I agree with you. Common ground can be met. I think two things need to happen. The government should be totally barred from controlling any speech within a charitable organization such as a church. And there should be a percentage cap of total receivables allowed for remuneration and benefits, including housing, which can go to the staff. Otherwise the entirety is taxed. Also a percentage cap should be place on what one individual or married couple can receive and remain tax exempt.
Or we could jettison income tax and go with a no-exemptions national sales tax.
and I agree with you. Common ground can be met. I think two things need to happen. The government should be totally barred from controlling any speech within a charitable organization such as a church. And there should be a percentage cap of total receivables allowed for remuneration and benefits, including housing, which can go to the staff. Otherwise the entirety is taxed. Also a percentage cap should be place on what one individual or married couple can receive and remain tax exempt.
Or we could jettison income tax and go with a no-exemptions national sales tax.
Re: Just another charlatan who fails to forgo riches and give to the poor.
To me, Rick Warren is a good model of a mega-church pastor. He takes no salary from his church. He lives of the income from his writings. And he is a reverse tither--he lives on 10% of his income and tithes 90%.
Modesty is a virtue frequently mentioned in the Bible. Pastors should remember this.
Osteen is alway plopped in with the prosperity preachers. However, he's not in that group. The technical term for their theology is theonomic neo-postmillennialism. He is not of that theology. His ministry is primarily to Christians who have been beat up by religion. That's why he sounds prosperity. I listened to him for a long time a while back. He's not prosperity.
To me, Rick Warren is a good model of a mega-church pastor. He takes no salary from his church. He lives of the income from his writings. And he is a reverse tither--he lives on 10% of his income and tithes 90%.
Modesty is a virtue frequently mentioned in the Bible. Pastors should remember this.