We didn’t know nobody was going to get hurt so there was some value I guess in having a quality caliber recruit known for D available to practice. Remember - we had a lot of unknowns / unprovens coming in and most of them did not turn out to be good at D at all. Maybe having Jones made it possible to get some offense reps for his small ball line up? Think about it - if your trying to get TF practice reps, the other small guards were easily the best defensive guards he could go up against except then he doesn’t get reps playing with them.
Keepers for next year
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We didn’t know nobody was going to get hurt so there was some value I guess in having a quality caliber recruit known for D available to practice. Remember - we had a lot of unknowns / unprovens coming in and most of them did not turn out to be good at D at all. Maybe having Jones made it possible to get some offense reps for his small ball line up? Think about it - if your trying to get TF practice reps, the other small guards were easily the best defensive guards he could go up against except then he doesn’t get reps playing with them.
Agree with this. If the price is right, he’d be a decent depth piece - and I’ve been critical of his effort, especially on D. Maybe he makes a jump as an upperclassmen. As a result of circumstance, he was rushed into more playing time than he was ready for.
Considering the frequent (and accurate) "Rutgers doesnt have money to compete" mantra - I would argure we are the last school able to spend money on a pure practice player.
Regardless of the practice benefits that Jones may have provided.
Wonder how much of the overall NIL allotment was the players tournament - and if spread evenly.
yeah, I wouldn’t have spent much on him without him even being able to sniff the court in 2 season. He was a lottery ticket you add to the end of the bench. I still think you keep him as a scout team player - but I think we’ve seen enough to know he’s a bust and a ratings miss.
Not good for team chemistry, he seemed like he was only worried about his and somehow proving he deserves the same spotlight Ace and Dylan got.
This season was rough, but it was the first time in 3 years that I felt like there was a bond within the team and guys picking each other up and making each other better.
As rough as it was, by the end of the season, I think this team was better than the sum of its parts - and that’s a Pike team. I think the team that beat Minny and lost to UCLA could have gotten to maybe 8-9 wins if we were starting conference play today.
Yeah, but your the one making the case that we potentially had money sitting in the pot at the end of the cycle to give a bundle to Fall. Jones would’ve just gotten whatever was left after our last pick up if anything. I don’t know what we paid Fall, but the point is, if he got anything close to what Grant got (which you seem to be suggesting) that simply supports the point I keep trying to make that you’ve been brushing aside as a non-factor (except it’s not).
Players actually have to want to come to RU for the money we offer. Let’s say we saved $400K for a center - except nobody better than Fall wanted to come for that price. Fall wasn’t even worth $300K but let’s say we offered him that because we were desperate - now we have $100k but at that point - this amount can’t even buy us anything close to a PJ type. Going back to the original 400k saved up for a center - we could’ve saved up 600k and if nobody still wanted to come for RU for that price it didn’t help us. And again - at the tail end of the cycle - there may not have even been much worth spending 300k on that would be interested in RU. That last part is the key. At the end of the day, most kids will take a little bit less to play in a situation they view more favorably for their future - last offseason that would’ve been true for pretty much everyone. Why would anyone want to come play for us over other places?We were a national laughing stock having missed the tourney with Ace and Dylan.
This year Pike earned some of that favor back. The record doesn’t have anything to do with what I’m talking about. He has Tariq to sell - a prize development piece over the season. He came into our program from NJiT and look how much better he is after one season. That’s not a small thing. He has a vision to sell - he didn’t before. That’s why we at least can hope.
Jones is a very talented player and we added him over the summer. I don’t think the plan was for him to be a practice player, but he wasn’t cleared for eligibility.
We knew there was a good chance he couldn’t play like J Will his first year, but at that point, I’m sure there was little to nothing left we could’ve added for the current season with whatever money Jones was paid.
Opinion to keep or not. Steve took him last year knowing his eligibility was up in the air. So I’m not sure why you are taking his NIL so personally. If he showed promise in practice you look to bring him back, if not, you let him go. It is simple.
So you want us to consolidate our resources on the top 9 guys yet also complain about the four guys at the back of our roster being super low cost-low level players. Makes zero sense. We didn’t spend much on those players aside from Fall. The big mistakes are whatever we spent on Fall and Zrno. Unless you want us to just have literal walkons at 9-13, we probably spent close to the least on those players among the P6. Only issue is even then we didn’t have much of anything for the remaining spots.
Certainly agree on JMike - leader of the team, led the team in 3 pt. percentage, over 78% from the line, second in steals. I think even 3rd or 4th in rebounding. At least your first guard off the bench next year.
There is value in retaining players because they learn teamwork together and learn Pike's system. So we need to add new 4-6 new pieces, but I think many people undervalue the benefit of retaining a core. Easier to integrate 5 new players - teach them your system, learn what they are good at and how to use them, have them develop chemistry - than doing the same with 10 new players.
We’re adding 2 frosh. Ideally it’s 4 from the portal plus 6 from the current roster for a total of 12 and if Pike decides to grab a long shot 13th at the end of the cycle with anything leftover fine.
My choices would be Tariq, Buchanan, Lino (regular rotation) and utility back up roles (Zrno, Dortch and Nwuli) but I doubt we’ll get that particular combo of 6. I’d be okay with J Mike returning if he wants to at the right price. Pike basically said EO is gone so Im assuming that’s a given. Hope we end up keeping at least 5 as I don’t think going deeper in the portal than 5 additions will be a net positive for us.
I don't consider a Dortch a big and think this team needs at least three bigs. Losing EO would hurt, we'll have no depth if we only come up with starter level 4 and 5. Still a net plus over TY though, so it will be what it is.
As mentioned previous, at the right price, I'd keep Grant as well. Older is better and we can only afford so many additions.
Grant will not be the “right price”. He’s simply not worth anything close to what his paper numbers say he is as a player but there will be someone out there who will be willing to pay him close to it.
I’d love to keep EO but Pike basically announced that he’s leaving and I don’t want to overpay again for another Fall. We’re not going to get a real back up big worth anything. We need to pay for a good BIG who can give us 28 mpg, bring in a power forward who can slide over to center for 5 or so minutes and then that’s where Dortch could be useful as a utility filler type body to hustle and bruise here and there as a back up. Would prefer Ogbole obviously. Anyone who wouldn’t love to keep him as a back up is an idiot. We’re not getting two bigs better than him. No way
Yes and no. I don’t really think Lathan and Jordan would’ve helped us. Needs to be the right kinds of kids.
Of course, if hes not willing to come back for the same $ as this year, you wish Grant luck. Can't give him more.
Yeah, Pike did make it seem that way, but I hope its wrong. Can't have a roster wo two centers on it. Dortch as a back up swing is fine, but the next time he bruises w anyone will be the first.
Grant gets “pushed around” at the 4 more than Dortch got “pushed around” at the 5.
Dortch likely costs half of what Grant will cost. If that.
Not sure I agree with the first point, it's close, agree on the second. Grant seems like he gets out hustled more than he gets overpowered.
Whatever the reason, I see Grant as having been completely ineffective on defense - so the bar is low. To me, his D is comparable to Hyatt’s his first two seasons at RU - hurt the team more than anything he did on offense helped.
You aren't wrong, unfortunately we have a few like this. EO, who does now protect the rim a little, still has not been taught any proper defensive off ball positioning or proper hedging on the P&R - unless staying high is what he's been taught. Francis is a little better as a help defender than on ball, Powers was useless defensively. 75% of the time DB guarding someone bigger w no help behind.
Francis isn’t the worlds best defender as he lacks the natural speed of a lock down prototype. That said - he grades out basically net neutral in the advanced stats and his biggest issues would be greatly mitigated with better wing / forward help defenders. He’s in position most of the time and doesn’t miss assignments. Plays D like an upperclass player for the most part. I don’t blame our defensive issues on him or the other guards (not even Zrno or Powers).
In one on one coverage, most of the time the perimeter defender gets beat. Thats true even with elite defenders - sure, they’ll get the steal more often but it’s really on the help defender to get where he needs to be on bail out so the guard can recover. It didn’t help that we couldn’t defend the rim at all so we had to make a decision of whether to overplay the paint or the 3 point area. Impossible to cover both when you don’t have a rim protector.
Advance D stats are kind of meaning less though, especially on a team like this that is so bad defensively. A site like Evan Miya actually rated Grants defense better than Francis and DB's one of the worst. Yes, speed and length hinder Francis, and the entire team was hindered by poor team help defense.
I agree. Grant’s D efficiency rating is crap. I think the data is particularly useless in his case because it doesn’t capture rebounds he missed that he clearly should’ve gotten or help assignments where he could’ve stepped in to contest and didn’t. Those things are rate limiting in my opinion for a forward and that was how Grant played the whole season even if those plays didn’t ding him directly in the advanced metrics.
For guards, I think the data is more useful in at least identifying someone unplayable like Jaden Jones. Francis wasn’t close to that.
Dortch's only value on this team would be as the 3rd string Center. He cannot play the 4 spot, as the 4 spot in our offense -- indeed, in most offenses nowadays -- is really just another wing who is expected to shoot the ball from the outside. Dortch cannot shoot a lick.
He can't be the backup C because, well, he's not really a Center, but rather has the size of a 3/4 (but not the skills of a modern 4 and certainly not as a 3 either). But he's big enough to be a 3rd string emergency type center when you need fouls, when you want some shot blocking, etc.
This is why I want Ogbole back as our backup C, so that we can spend $2 million on a starting Center and then not have to also break the bank on a backup. Manny is good enough to be an 8 to 12 minute per night backup.
He can't be the backup C because, well, he's not really a Center, but rather has the size of a 3/4 (but not the skills of a modern 4 and certainly not as a 3 either). But he's big enough to be a 3rd string emergency type center when you need fouls, when you want some shot blocking, etc.
This is why I want Ogbole back as our backup C, so that we can spend $2 million on a starting Center and then not have to also break the bank on a backup. Manny is good enough to be an 8 to 12 minute per night backup.
He could play defensive spot minutes at the 4 for a couple minutes a game if need be. I'd almost prefer his minutes there where he's not overpowered, either way, agree, if EO isn't back we need a back up center in the portal too, plus starting 4 and 5's
imagine donating $1k of your hard earned cash and it goes to Dortch for a semester of his beer money
I mean is it any better than donating $1k of your hard earned cash and it goes towards Schiano's county club membership or clothing stipend?
Because he can't buy clothes on $6m/year.
If you are looking for ethical ways to spend money - any donation to an atheltic department is way down on the list.
Even before revenue sharing to athletes.
Imagine making a comment like this and not realizing that Dortch playing out of position at the 5 all year exceeded his NIL value and many others underperformed their value.
This. I’m sure Fall got way more than him.
Although, outside of Grant and Fall, who do we think underperformed their NIL? We didn’t pay all that many guys starter high major dollars. They were paid to play supporting roles and most proved they could do that. The problem was only Tariq was starting caliber. Buchanan and Lino improved late but still bordered at fringe.
As Zinn alluded - we basically got what we paid for with the exception of Francis and Fall. Grant a disappointment but even he wasn’t paid as a sure starter level guy.
Exceeded his NIL value? Outside the Dortch house he has no real NIL value.
Everyone worthy of checking into a game has a NIL value.
I don’t think Fall got as much as some are saying. He could not see the court at his two previous stops, not that he did not play well, he could not get on the court.
Yeah? Give me the worth of the Bryce Dortch name? Does he some value to the school, yeah, that's why they have revenue sharing now. The Dortch name and image is worthless.