Knowing what you know now, should Carroo be reinstated?
- Thread starter RCTrooper
- Start date
I don't see how anyone can answer either way. There isn't any evidence he did or didn't do it.
Was there some news that I missed? I know pretty much nothing about what actually happened.
And unless Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, Dick Tracy, and Nancy Drew join forces to solve the mystery, we'll likely never know for sure.
You mean you couldn't tell from the two 4 second videos what actually happened?
Neither can anyone else.
He should be reinstated . The worst thing here is if he's cleared and lost his whole senior season .
Not when you're representing a school on a free ride. I've always felt this way, I always will, regardless of the name on either the front, or the back, of the Jersey.
Has anyone, other than the victim, say that they saw Carroo toss the girl? I find it hard to believe out of all the people that were there, nobody saw him do it......unless he didn't do it like the video shows.
It's nice to feel this way, but it doesn't work this way in many places that play big -time college football. Lots of players have been kept eligible for much worse . I know, I know we are Rutgers and do things the right way . At the end of the day this is a municipal court issue . I don't think he should lose his season over it . But knowing Rutgers he probably will .
Well since most all of them were his family and friends confronting the victim do you really expect any of them to come forward??
There is no video, that anyone has acknowledge, of who threw her to the ground.
How is that the worst thing ? If that's the case and he's guilty he pays the price in court.
What bothers me is that he was advised not to go out there and did.
Know his mother and girlfriend was involved and doubt many of us would take that advise.
But by going out there ( for the best reasons possible ) Carroo left himself open to being arrested and now must go through the legal system. So until what he didn't or did not do is proven in court, reinstatement should wait.
Might not be fair, but not many things in life are completely fair , including the legal system at times.
Know his mother and girlfriend was involved and doubt many of us would take that advise.
But by going out there ( for the best reasons possible ) Carroo left himself open to being arrested and now must go through the legal system. So until what he didn't or did not do is proven in court, reinstatement should wait.
Might not be fair, but not many things in life are completely fair , including the legal system at times.
This is not true. The video shows the opposite - the victim's gang attacking Carroo's gf and mom.
So the question is whether RU should allow somebody actively charged with domestic violence to play for the team? If you answered yes, you should take time to consider how rooting for a college football team has affected you judgment.
He was charged with simple assault. And he has rights too. And then their is fairness. From what we know, he was breaking up a fight. I am using a lot of factors to answer the op's question, and we really don't know all the facts, but from what we know, other schools and the nfl have allowed a lot worse to play like Adrian peterson.
If there's video evidence, that would mean that in one night leonte went from full ride scholarship, captain team, playing senior season, going to NFL to possible jail time and questionable NFL draft status.
What's good about that for leonte? Maybe good to show legal system works Burt worst case for caroo.
Our football passion has clouded our judgement. I agree with Willis. No way should he be allowed to play until the case is adjudicated.
Doing the right thing often requires a level of judgement. It's possible that there is enough information and possible sufficient information may be revealed next week for a reasonable semi-intelligent person to make a judgment. If that's the case the right thing to do imo if the information warrants it is to allow the young man to play. But it requires judgment, not an all or nothing policy. Anyone can claim anything. Personally I don't hold jilted purse swinging recruiting hostesses high on my list of credible sources of information.
Here's what I still don't understand re: the videos. The story is, the videos were taken fairly far apart in time.. and the cops were there during the first video. Why weren't the main combatants removed from the area before the second altercation could occur? It is that second altercation where LC got involved.
The "victim's" story is that she was leaving work at the Hale Center and was jumped. Assume that is true just for argument's sake. Why wasn't she escorted, by the cops/security guards visible in the first video, to her car and allowed to leave after that first altercation.. or arrested along with those involved in the first fight?
If any of that goes right, LC is nowhere near any altercation.
The "victim's" story is that she was leaving work at the Hale Center and was jumped. Assume that is true just for argument's sake. Why wasn't she escorted, by the cops/security guards visible in the first video, to her car and allowed to leave after that first altercation.. or arrested along with those involved in the first fight?
If any of that goes right, LC is nowhere near any altercation.
We have consistently suspended during legal troubles and waited for outcome. Changing now for Leonte would be insane awith pressure already on flood for skirting rules to try keeping a player only the field.
Wether our current practice is correct is a different conversation.
Wether our current practice is correct is a different conversation.
TCU had two players arrested for robbery-bodily injury last week, and were reinstated to the team yesterday....
Programs treat similar situations differently..... We obviously can't do that here because we would get killed by the media, elsewhere........ Crickets
Programs treat similar situations differently..... We obviously can't do that here because we would get killed by the media, elsewhere........ Crickets
All this guilty until proven innocent talk is silly.
He's not sitting in a prison cell.
He's not banned from continuing his FREE education.
He's not on house arrest.
His privilege to play college football has been suspended until his case is adjudicated.
He's not sitting in a prison cell.
He's not banned from continuing his FREE education.
He's not on house arrest.
His privilege to play college football has been suspended until his case is adjudicated.
I think the videos that were released were too short to show anything. It is not obvious from the videos which was first, nor how much time elapsed between each.
The worst part is that what if the ex made this whole bogus thing up, she gets what she wants, to hurt Leonte, because he gets screwed. Reinstate for sure. Let due process works itself out. F*ck the media!!!!
Is he enrolled in school? has he be through any type of disciplinary hearing at the student/college level if he is a student in good standing i.e. enrolled and taking courses and has been through the Rutgers judicial process one could make an argument for his re-instatement until such time as a verdict is rendered. On the other hand one could make a case for continued suspension in that he violated team rules twice (curfew violation & "don't go outside" and get involved in the melee). Really not black or white but gray. I tend toward the fact that if he is a student in "good standing" he should be re-instated until such time as the judicial process has finished or someone at the Dean's level says he is not a student in good standing. I would like to see some consistency across the process, he is a student first and a football player second and I would think he should be dealt with as a student. What happens to a student at RU in this situation that is not a football player?
I've got to question the judgement and maturity of all those involved in the altercation. I can't imagine any scenario in the universe where my mother and my girlfriend's father would be involved in even a conversation with a side piece of mine. the entre incident is just crazy and speaks to the lack of civility of everyone involved. The police and legal system should have much more important things to do than get involved in such trivial ********.
Certainly requires some judgment. But from what I understand, during yesterday's hearing, a Judge executed judgment and determined that there was probable cause to proceed with trial. Maybe a lawyer can help clarify what that entails. But my understanding is that the judge looked at evidence presented by the prosecution (and by the defense if they decided to present evidence) and determined that there was enough evidence to suggest that Carroo was guilty. Certainly in a trial, Carroo might be found not guilty. But as of now, a Judge has determined that there is enough evidence to suggest that he is guilty. Why would Rutgers come to a different conclusion?
The judge also said it was a complicated case with multiple people charged, as well as charges now filed against the original complaintent,
If he dismissed the case against Caroo that would have had impact on the overall proceeding.
If he dismissed the case against Caroo that would have had impact on the overall proceeding.
The descriptions that went along with the videos said the order they were in was correct and that there were some many minutes between them.. iirc, something like 10-15 minutes. LINK
So, while my questions above still stand, I will agree that such short clips, as released by the defense attorneys seem.. edited for effect. I have no idea if the short duration are to protect Leonte or others connected to those taking the video or to make the "victim" seem like the aggressor.. or if they tell the true story as well as can be told in the chaos.
What I do know for a fact is that Leonte Caroo did not seek this out or instigate it. He was told his mother was in a fight in the parking lot and reacted as any son would. I think the "domestic violence" charge is an over-reach caused by (possibly) well-intentioned politicians tweaking laws until they cease to work. I doubt any cop who thought he had some level of judgement available to him would have arrested anyone who did not cause real harm. And yes, the missing hair and scalp is real harm.
I still want to know who said what to whom first. Who struck the first blow.
I wonder which of us would accept being suspended without pay from our jobs for trying to break up a fight (more like a riot) between a former girl friend and her friends and your new girlfriend/mother in your company's parking lot? The two reasons that a suspension was justified based upon the facts that we think we know are that: (1) shortly before this occurred I understand Flood told the team not to become involved in any drama (or words to that effect) that evening; and (2) once arrested Carroo's an indefinite indefinite suspension was needed to investigate. However, once the other side of the story was revealed by his attorney, I believe, based on the "facts" (competing allegations) as we know them, the suspension should have been lifted, especially, in light of the court adjournments and the prospects of additional adjournments in the future. And if (1) was a violation of a team rule necessitating a suspension, an indefinite suspension is overly harsh.
Now, if Rutgers has additional reliable information that we are not privy to such as video we have not seen or statements from witnesses (hopefully independent witnesses) to the events that inculpates Carroo that is another story altogether. In fact, if RU has such info and merely indefinitely suspends him, not dismisses him from the team, I would be disappointed with RU. But if RU does not have any damning information, or has info clearing Carroo but will not reinstate him for fear of bad publicity prior to the judicial process to conclude, then I would be equally disappointed in how RU treated this matter.
Now, if Rutgers has additional reliable information that we are not privy to such as video we have not seen or statements from witnesses (hopefully independent witnesses) to the events that inculpates Carroo that is another story altogether. In fact, if RU has such info and merely indefinitely suspends him, not dismisses him from the team, I would be disappointed with RU. But if RU does not have any damning information, or has info clearing Carroo but will not reinstate him for fear of bad publicity prior to the judicial process to conclude, then I would be equally disappointed in how RU treated this matter.