i was able to watch the final three minutes online. Holy hell. Wtf is up with the faceoff position? It appears we’re just flipping a coin and rotating anyone out there. Pless, a defensemen, was out there a couple times. This is completely unacceptable. I don’t care if our grad transfer got injured. This is brutal and another unacceptable blown lead. Pathetic second half. Cuse went up 15-14 and we had one possession the rest of the game. Stick a fork in it. Don’t see how we win three conference games to make the B1G tournament.
Lacrosse
- Thread starter biazza38
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New coaches, young guys...not sure this was ever our year. Last year, you could have said that. With this schedule and all the new faces, getting better is the idea.
That said, outside of the face off debacle, we played very well today. Our best to date.
Syracuse had 16 more possessions. That’s crazy.
That said, outside of the face off debacle, we played very well today. Our best to date.
Syracuse had 16 more possessions. That’s crazy.
Pless was an LSM before this year. Playing a. sm at the fogo spot is not rare.
Why can’t a fogo also be one of your best middies?
The “get off” part wouldn’t apply I guess.
I’m curious why a strong, quick, one of your best all-around player also be great at faceoffs, and stay on the field.
Aging myself, but that was the case when I was watching Lax years ago.
The “get off” part wouldn’t apply I guess.
I’m curious why a strong, quick, one of your best all-around player also be great at faceoffs, and stay on the field.
Aging myself, but that was the case when I was watching Lax years ago.
Not much different from specialist in other sports, e.g. kickers, holders, long snappers in FB, closers in BB, etc.
I get that, for some reason I feel like this is a bit different because fogo’s are probably great athletes capable of excelling on the field, where most kickers and long snappers can’t... for the most part.
Closers actually pitch.
Imagine a player capable of scoring 30 goals in the NHL forced to only take faceoffs?
You have to ask Cali, but I have to believe the attributes of a great fogo could very easily translate to being an excellent player
It’s not that they couldn’t, but it is such an important part of the game that you don’t want your fogo worn down. You have lots of other players that can give you offensive or defensive production at middie but usually just a couple of fogos and if you’re lucky one really good one. If a guy is a great fogo he is far more valuable taking faceoffs than anything else.
Now if your argument is that faceoffs have become too big a part of the game and have a disproportionate influence on the outcome of games, I won’t argue with you there. I wouldn’t mind seeing possession rules moving towards basketball with the ball placed on the end line after each score and limiting faceoffs to the beginning of quarters.
Not saying that, I’m saying for a kid that loves to run, hit, stick handle, score goal and take Hen-hawks... to me it would be a hell of a sacrifice.
That in no way diminishes or minimizes his roll and how important the FOGO is.
I hope you understand what I’m saying!
If I was a kid that loved Lax and could play the game quite well... I’d go to a school that gave me a chance to play the game, rather than go to a school and be a fogo.
A great fogo is usually like a stocky wrestler. Their skill is great ground ball ability and quick hands. Could they play the field? Maybe. But as rbled says, why would you want them to? It would be like asking your closer in baseball to also start catching.
If you go to a practice, those guys are doing face off work when everyone else is learning offensive sets and d slides.
It’s too valuable and too specialized to not be duly focused on it, which most of the kids at this level have done since being in high school.
It’s simply too much to ask. If they could do all those things they wouldn’t be a fogo. Their skill set is vastly different than a slick attackman or a dodging midfielder who rips shots.
Again, think of a closer being asked to catch.
The sticks in many cases are also not the best for shooting or even sometimes a ton of passing.
Regarding your last comment, if a fogo wasn’t willing to be a fogo, there is not a great chance they’d be on a D1 roster. Certainly not at a major school. That’s their only ticket.
I am not an expert on lacrosse by any means, but I know first hand about how serious and specialized FOGO players are from a young age.
I coach travel ice hockey and I had a boy on my team for 3 years(Pee Wee/Bantam) who was a tremendous athlete - good size, speed, tough and motivated. He played multiple sports, but lacrosse was his favorite.
He was a mid-fielder for an elite lacrosse club team but as he grew, he really became an expert on face-offs. This was to the point that he started specializing and began competing very successfully in national Face-Off competitions in the 6th, 7th and 8th grade. He would miss hockey games to compete in these Face-Off competitions.
Unfortunately for me, this year he finally gave up hockey for good to concentrate on lacrosse. Although I think he should have continued to participate in multiple sports (an argument for another day), he is already on the college radar as a freshman FOGO specialist. I have no idea whether he will eventually pan out at the college level, but I know his club has already been getting inquiries about him.
I coach travel ice hockey and I had a boy on my team for 3 years(Pee Wee/Bantam) who was a tremendous athlete - good size, speed, tough and motivated. He played multiple sports, but lacrosse was his favorite.
He was a mid-fielder for an elite lacrosse club team but as he grew, he really became an expert on face-offs. This was to the point that he started specializing and began competing very successfully in national Face-Off competitions in the 6th, 7th and 8th grade. He would miss hockey games to compete in these Face-Off competitions.
Unfortunately for me, this year he finally gave up hockey for good to concentrate on lacrosse. Although I think he should have continued to participate in multiple sports (an argument for another day), he is already on the college radar as a freshman FOGO specialist. I have no idea whether he will eventually pan out at the college level, but I know his club has already been getting inquiries about him.
If you mean by "quick hands" the need for lightening reflexes with respect to the initial clamp/move on the whistle I agree. Otherwise add it to the list. I guess leg strength so you can't be moved when you're tied up fits under stocky wrestler.
And a FOGO with skills could probably run a regular shift in a low scoring game. But a single FOGO in an 18-15 contest would be drained by the 4th quarter.
Cali covered it but just to add, if a kid is great at all those things they would be a valuable middie and that is where they would be spending their practice time. Even if they also had the skill set to be a good fogo, they would get dominated by kids that are devoted to the craft full time. Having the talent is not enough, you have to work at it as well. There is a lot of technique that is gained simply through hours of practice and repetition. As Cali pointed out, most fogos choose to dedicate to that position either because they love it or it’s their best path to pt, usually a combo of the two.
That's what I meant. Slick attackman (think AC) has incredible hands. But those hands are different from a great fogo who has great, hands, but in a different.
The prototype for a fogo is that kid from Denver. Shorter, stocky, very strong, quick hands, and scoops up ground balls like a vacuum.
He actually might have been able to play the field, but no coach would risk that. He's too valuable at the faceoff x.
You do see kids that occasionally do both. They typically come from schools in emerging areas. Look at Peterson on our team now. He did everything for his high school. But at this level, he's a step down shooting midfielder, not a faceoff guy.
Has FOGOing always been such a big part of the sport? I played recreationally (pick-up, not in a league) in Maryland (it was right after wrestling season so no way was I signing up for somebody to whale on me with a metal rod), but I don't remember it being so important. Was the faceoff a little more graceful back then?
(My best lacrosse moments were barefoot on the beach in Ocean City...)
(My best lacrosse moments were barefoot on the beach in Ocean City...)
It's always been important, but it became a real focal point in the 2000's when scoring went down and possession time became critical. Smart coaches quickly understood that possessions became almost everything. Throw in no shot clock and all of a sudden a face off guy is the most important person on the field.
It's slightly less important now given there is a real shot clock, but it's still highly critical. Imagine a mechanism in something like football where you had to fight for possession after a score? However you did that would become super important.
How's the shot clock working, by the way? I've only seen one game this year, the Maryland / Notre Dame game, and that was on TV. Are they only counting legit shots? When I heard about the rule I didn't see how it would stop teams from what they started doing a few years ago when the clock was turned on -- throwing it in the general direction of the goal.
But real lacrosse guys like you seem happy, so it must be a success...
I like it. It only resets if a goalie makes a save. If the ball isn't saved or doesn't hit the cross bar, it keeps running.
The only think I would change is the reset time. If the D plays solid for 60 seconds and they get a shot off that the goalie saves but the other team gets back, I don't think it should be a full reset. The D is doing it's job. I'd say reset to like 40 seconds.
It has always been important but not like it is today. I think it is a combination of changes in gear that allow for different types of control that couldn’t be done with the old heads and evotuktion of training and specialization. I faced off in HS (though not a fogo I also ran a middie line which was pretty common in the early 90s) and spent a bit of time with the faceoffs guys in college. Even in college then fogos spent maybe an hour or two per week at most working on faceoffs. The majority of time was spent working at middie (offense or defense). In fact, even having short stick middie lines at that time was a pretty new concept. At that time shorts stick d middies were mainly guys that sucked on offense (I was a d middie in college).
Today so much more effort goes into specialization that they are so much better, are much more technical and have a much greater arsenal than in the past. There are academies the focus on nothing but faceoffs. Nothing like that existed years ago.
I faced off in college but go back to before specialized middies outside of FOGOs. No long sticks at midfield nor SSDMs. Practice time allocation was similar to yours and of course the #1 and #2 FOGOs went against each other in scrimmages.
Maybe
But even if we were awesome at it, I’d think it is a stupid rule
What sports do that?
Hockey (no big deal winning a faceoff after a goal, but it can definitely help if have a faceoff in the offensive zone late in a game.)
Imagine if they did that in football?
Or basketball?
Or soccer?
Or baseball?
Tennis?
Bowling?
Badmitton?
Water polo?
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A punter who pins a team inside the 20 all day? A gunner on special teams? And remember, the wing middies can have an impact as well.
No, my question is:
What other sports make the next possession a contest between both teams (or competitors) to see who actually WINS the next possession after one team scores (or completes their turn to score, such as a half inning in baseball, or serving in tennis?)
These do:
Hockey
Field hockey?
Others?
These do not:
Basketball
Soccer
Baseball
Tennis
Bowling
Badmitton
Golf
Volleyball
Gymnastics
Water polo (I assume)
Others?
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If I had my druthers, I would prefer they limit the amount of faceoffs in a game to the opening of each quarter. Have the team that just got scored on automatically get possession and then have to clear the ball. Way too much of the game's outcome is determined by the faceoff play.