Cali - I may be getting my pre-conference schedule awful 2nd halves confused with 1st halves. My bad if so, but, nonetheless.
Okay I’m headed out have a good one brother!
Okay I’m headed out have a good one brother!
Lax vs PSU Game Thread
- Thread starter AreYouNUTS
- Start date
FYI - I was talking about the final possession in which we missed a wild shot from up high then didn’t even get a 2nd one off.
Spot on. I thought Rutgers played really well today. That was lax at a high level and I thought they were fantastic. Lax is is tough sport, similar to hockey. This team could get bounced in first round of BIG Tourney or win the national championship. Not much to criticize today.
Best game we played all year. Easily. We hit 6 pipes today. I am not sure I have ever seen that many in a lacrosse game. I'm coming in confident if I am the squad on Thursday. Especially if we get our best short stick back.
I'll be here when you are back. We are going deep here. You've made some very strong statements questioning coaching. We are deep diving into why you believe this. A simple, they scored at the end of the quarter so the coaching staff sucks isn't going to cut it. I want to know more about what you would do to make better coaching decisions in that exact situation. I'll be here when you are ready.
Have a good one.
My best guest was AC was not the first option. 9 seconds left, you probably try to pass it right away
I've seen a lot of lacrosse, but when it comes to college games how do so many attack guys stand just outside that circle and pass 10 times out of eleven instead of going in for the dunk or shooting the two? Swivel and shoot the rock, no?
We played well today. Hopefully in the BIG Tournament on our field we can rise up and defeat Penn State.
Brutal loss in terms of how close we were to winning, but I tip my cap to the men for almost upsetting the #1 ranked team (which we have never done), ON THE ROAD!!
The challenge here is some of those early losses put us behind the eight-ball so none of this will matter unless we go on a big run and win the Big Ten Tournament. I think everyone here can agree that prior to the season making the NCAA tournament was a key milestone for the staff. I am by no means giving up on the head coach yet but when this season gets measured against expectations I feel like you've got to look at this as a step backwards. Yes the injuries did not help. But there were too many WTF losses early in the season.
The good news is I think this game proved to our boys that they can beat anybody. We just have to go on a run and win this thing. Otherwise like I said above this was a net negative season.
The challenge here is some of those early losses put us behind the eight-ball so none of this will matter unless we go on a big run and win the Big Ten Tournament. I think everyone here can agree that prior to the season making the NCAA tournament was a key milestone for the staff. I am by no means giving up on the head coach yet but when this season gets measured against expectations I feel like you've got to look at this as a step backwards. Yes the injuries did not help. But there were too many WTF losses early in the season.
The good news is I think this game proved to our boys that they can beat anybody. We just have to go on a run and win this thing. Otherwise like I said above this was a net negative season.
Brutal loss. We played a lot better than last week. Still upset we didn’t get the W, After some time to reflect, they should have some confidence going into Thursday. Maryland and PSU are not head and shoulders better than us. Crazier things have happened. Why not us. Just win two
Looking at the stats, it was a very well played game. We got off 9 more shots. Can't help but think what could have been had we not hit 6 pipes.
Our EMO was 2 of 3. Penn St. was 3 of 3 against our man down, which is a very good unit. They just have so many shooters. We got beat on faceoffs, but did much better than we would have thought. We turned them over more, had one more save. This was a very well played, well coached game across the board.
It was a truly a one more play game.
Our EMO was 2 of 3. Penn St. was 3 of 3 against our man down, which is a very good unit. They just have so many shooters. We got beat on faceoffs, but did much better than we would have thought. We turned them over more, had one more save. This was a very well played, well coached game across the board.
It was a truly a one more play game.
Hopefully they have not become whiny chronic complainers, like you have been, for the past several months on all RU sports teams. Suddenly you seem to know everything about every sport according to your posts.
“The good news is I think this game proved to our boys that they can beat anybody.”
Cuse ... Hopkins ... MD ... PSU ... I don’t think it’s news that this year’s RU roster can ALMOST beat anybody. But the guys have also shown that they can lose to just about anybody. Did anyone think this was a 7-7 roster a few months ago?
OK, new season starts next weekend. Let’s hope that the home field can make the difference and RU can start strong and finish strong for two games in a row.
Cuse ... Hopkins ... MD ... PSU ... I don’t think it’s news that this year’s RU roster can ALMOST beat anybody. But the guys have also shown that they can lose to just about anybody. Did anyone think this was a 7-7 roster a few months ago?
OK, new season starts next weekend. Let’s hope that the home field can make the difference and RU can start strong and finish strong for two games in a row.
You are wrong about the coaching, I know that for a fact, players make plays, players play the game. The coaching staff is better than it has ever been
I have let you say this same stuff over and over without response but I can not today. You can blame the coaches all you want and repeatedly say that the talent is there but you fail to assign any responsibility to the kids on the field.
I will give you an example, we played Army and they came out in a 10 man ride which turned us over several times. I was at the game and sitting around other coaches and we all wondered two things 1- did Army not show the 10 man before - did we not prepare for their 10 man ride?
2- Why did we not bring an attackman up to help with the clear.
Both were pretty obvious questions so I asked some of the players on the team and they ALL said that they practiced against the ride and had a plan for the ride (which worked when they did it) but they did not follow the game plan and the players to a man said that it was on them that they did not do this.
You can plan the exact right defense or offense and there still needs to be execution by the players and while our players are better and talented we still lag behind all of our Big Ten brethren
Family - I appreciate all of your insights. I don't want to turn this into an argument with you because as you can see for my post above I gave credit to the team in the game yesterday. However the example you're giving regarding Army is - in my opinion - more of an indictment of the coaching staff than the players. If you practice something all week and the players are not executing it during the game that is absolutely on the coaching. In no way shape or form can you let that happen. If it was me I would be playing the lowest players on the roster. I would play anyone that would be executing what we did in practice. I don't recall if that happened or did not happen in the game. And I am not saying that this season is all on the coaches. I am excited on what the experts have said we have in our coaching staff now. I really am. The players do need to take accountability...but in College and with kids coaches are a HUGE part of the equation in outcomes of games.
All I am saying is that in my opinion the example you gave is actually a poorer reflection on the coaches not the players.
My question would then be why do the players not respect their coaches enough to do what they are taught? In addition where is the accountability? Coaches are responsible creating the culture of the team. If players aren't being held accountable then you have players who freelance and do not follow what they are coached to do.
Yes, and your response is very easy to say from the stands. But we do not have a roster full of plug and play kids where you can just go on to the next kid. Who do we have to replace AC talent? So if AC is not doing the exact game play you would pull him and play someone else. I call BS on that. You are making a complex argument into something that is black and white, which it is simply not.
It is laughable that you blame the staff for the creating the game plan, make sure the players understand the plan and then in the moment the players do not execute the plan.
And I would fundamentally disagree with your last point about your last point. As Barry Switzer once said “ it’s not the X’s And the O’s its the Jimmy’s and the Joe’s”
The culture of the team is fine, lacrosse is much like basketball where you have a plan but their is still a lot of freelancing within the game. If you try and script to much of the game you become predictable, this has always been one of the issues with Hopkins, that have great talent and stifle it by use set plays which are easily defendable.
Rutgers style is to play fast, you have to live with mistakes when you play fast. You don’t like there style of play that is a different story but under this staff they are going to continue to play fast.
This. If you coach something all week and in the game it is not being applied you have very little recourse as a coach. And THAT is reason 1, 2 and 3 why coaches go nuts. As rufamily says, you cant just move on to the next player assuming he will play better. Often times, a coach will try that then the fans get to watch their team get blown out rather than hang around.
In the end the team won/loss record is the way Rutgers should be judged for Lacrosse and every other sport.A 7-7 record clearly shows that there are areas that need improvement. Rutgers had ample opportunities to score against Penn State .
First thing, I think Edelmanns save on Ament on the doorstep was the best I have seen all year, simply amazing.
Re the overarching conversation, if its not coaching, is it the talent?
Outside of the faceoff X, I think we are at least the equivalent skillwise and physically to all but 2 or 3 teams on our schedule.
So naturally I think it is a lacrosse IQ problem and as I have mentioned, discipline.
Why do we not have the discipline to follow the game plan re the Army clear?
Sometimes it is our best and most experienced players making poor decisions.
Anyway, I am not looking to disparage a great effort yesterday and a very entertaining game but when looking at yesterday's performance against the best team in the country and some of our other games it feels that this team is mental adjustments away from real success.
Re the overarching conversation, if its not coaching, is it the talent?
Outside of the faceoff X, I think we are at least the equivalent skillwise and physically to all but 2 or 3 teams on our schedule.
So naturally I think it is a lacrosse IQ problem and as I have mentioned, discipline.
Why do we not have the discipline to follow the game plan re the Army clear?
Sometimes it is our best and most experienced players making poor decisions.
Anyway, I am not looking to disparage a great effort yesterday and a very entertaining game but when looking at yesterday's performance against the best team in the country and some of our other games it feels that this team is mental adjustments away from real success.
Need to beat PSU at home on Thursday to avoid a losing record ... which they can ... disappointed with the record like all of us especially after getting Max back ... but still a chance at history to get a conference title and turn it around ... the talent is there to ALMOST win ... being at home, I believe RU will beat PSU! I predict RU beats PSU by 3 then loses to UMD by 2.
Re: 10 man ride and not following the game plan - it is a similar situation to facing the triple option or read option with a very dynamic QB in FB. You can come up with a solid game plan to attack it and the team can execute flawlessly when going against the scout team that has been running it for all of a week. It is another thing when facing a team that lives and breathes that strategy. Things move at an entirely different pace and it can be difficult to adjust.
The 10 man ride, when executed properly is extremely difficult to break. Usually beating it depends upon someone from the other side making an error and exploiting it but when they execute flawlessly it usually results in a lot of turnovers and broken situation goals. But It’s a high risk, high reward strategy and ironically the key to beating it is to beat it. Once you get past it a couple of times or jam in some long range bombs resulting in easy goals, it forces them to ease off it and play more conservatively. But if they are having a lot of early success with it it can get in kids heads, especially younger players, and they start to press. Panicking is the worst thing you can do against the 10 man and that is what they are banking on. But when players keep their heads and anticipate the pressure they can make the 10 man ride look silly and force coaches to come out of it quickly.
The 10 man ride, when executed properly is extremely difficult to break. Usually beating it depends upon someone from the other side making an error and exploiting it but when they execute flawlessly it usually results in a lot of turnovers and broken situation goals. But It’s a high risk, high reward strategy and ironically the key to beating it is to beat it. Once you get past it a couple of times or jam in some long range bombs resulting in easy goals, it forces them to ease off it and play more conservatively. But if they are having a lot of early success with it it can get in kids heads, especially younger players, and they start to press. Panicking is the worst thing you can do against the 10 man and that is what they are banking on. But when players keep their heads and anticipate the pressure they can make the 10 man ride look silly and force coaches to come out of it quickly.
The Army story reminds me of Hoosiers. Yes, I know it's a movie and might not be real. There is a game early in the season where the best players on the team are not following his direction, so he benched them and ends up playing with only four to send the message: this is my team and you will do what I say, or you will not play.
I know nothing about lacrosse strategy but if the coaches allowed the players to ignore the game plan repeatedly, that's on them. It doesn't matter if the backups would've played worse overall. If necessary, bench the guys who are not listening to the staff until the message sinks in.
As for some of the other things yesterday such as turning it over with 25 seconds left in the 3rd, maybe that's just bad lacrosse IQ if there is such a thing. I can't blame the coaches for that if a player makes a poor choices with the ball, assuming he was told to hold for a last second opportunity but decided to force a difficult pass. The broadcasters pointed that one out as a mistake for sure.
I know nothing about lacrosse strategy but if the coaches allowed the players to ignore the game plan repeatedly, that's on them. It doesn't matter if the backups would've played worse overall. If necessary, bench the guys who are not listening to the staff until the message sinks in.
As for some of the other things yesterday such as turning it over with 25 seconds left in the 3rd, maybe that's just bad lacrosse IQ if there is such a thing. I can't blame the coaches for that if a player makes a poor choices with the ball, assuming he was told to hold for a last second opportunity but decided to force a difficult pass. The broadcasters pointed that one out as a mistake for sure.
Can we agree that with Army it was not the Jimmy's and the Joe's? Again read my above post. I did not say we got beat by Penn State due to coaching. I'm specifically referencing the example you gave to suggest it's not the coaching...against...ARMY.
We will just need to agree to disagree on what constitutes net positive coaching. Again I'm not saying we have a bad coaching staff but if as you say the coaching staff spent the entire week on a game plan and the players admitted they did not follow the game plan...you blame that on the players? Then what the hell is the coach even for?
I get what you are trying to say I just think you used a bad example to back it up.
I don't think you and I are going to see eye-to-eye on this.
That’s fine. You can stay. I really just wanted to comment on how insufferable you are as a person. For your sake, I really hope the person you are in real life is a lot better then the person you appear to be behind a keyboard.
It’s simply a sign of being younger. Many of these kids were in new roles. You can also see these guys never played the game.
This isn’t football where you can audible from the sidelines before the ball is snapped.
Lacrosse is the ultimate players game. It’s all happening in real time in nano second decisions by players on the field.
My new position is this. Any time someone says the staff sucks, which tells you how little they know considering reality, I’m going to ask for very specific scenarios and what they would do differently. Like I am with Nuts, right now.
I’m eagerly awaiting what he his response. He listed 5 items, generic. 2 didn’t even happen.
One may did, but let’s hear the 9 second play call to get off a better shot.
I’m most interested in the example he and others said is bad coaching- the goal before the half.
Nuts and others said that is coaching. I want to know specifically what they’d do different in that situation. Personnel and strategy, that wasn’t done.
You must think your head coach really sucks, considering what transpired before this year.
One incidental note ... unlike football, not too many NJ athletes on Penn State’s roster. Cherry Hill, Sewell, Medford (3), Brick. We have one athlete from PA.
PSU does not recruit NJ very much anymore. But, you touch on an issue. Where are our guys from Upstate NY, Long Island and PA we are a Big Ten team with coaches that grew up on Long Island and Upstate we need to be hit that harder
With new faces, young guys, guys in different roles, the worst thing you can do is start punishing mistakes early, putting in other young guys. Sometimes you just let them play through it. Kids need to grow and you need to allow that space to do so.
Speaking with the new assistants, that’s definitely in the game plan.
No we can not agree to that, Army has a 1st team AA on defenses well as a super LSM and an exceptional goalie.
If you knew anything about what you are saying you would realize that my example is right on the mark. Unfortunately it seems like you do not understand what I am saying and I can not explain it to you over the internet.