Lebron is so paranoid...
- Thread starter dawgatUSM
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i counted 10 "mikes" in the last 15 seconds.... obviously that guy doesn't strive to be liked.
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there is nothing Jordan could do that Lebron can't do (physically).... There are several things Lebron CAN DO that Jordan COULD NEVER do (physically)...
flame away.... the only retorts will be about things "between the ears" so to speak, which I never mentioned.
flame away.... the only retorts will be about things "between the ears" so to speak, which I never mentioned.
Lebron is really showing me something this postseason.
When the Heat have had close games late, he has taken over on both ends. He's played lock down defense, blocking shots, getting steals, and on offense he's been isolating and making ALL the big shots.
Lebron and MJ is going to always be a debate. Lebron and Kobe, in my opinion, is not a debate at all. Lebron is a better shooter and a better player that will end up with at least as many rings when he's finished.
I will agree that Lebron has more potential than MJ though.
When the Heat have had close games late, he has taken over on both ends. He's played lock down defense, blocking shots, getting steals, and on offense he's been isolating and making ALL the big shots.
Lebron and MJ is going to always be a debate. Lebron and Kobe, in my opinion, is not a debate at all. Lebron is a better shooter and a better player that will end up with at least as many rings when he's finished.
I will agree that Lebron has more potential than MJ though.
******** Bruiser.Keep in mind that Kobe is 34 years old now. You ask just about anyone in the NBA who they would want taking a last shot between Kobe in his primeand LeBron and I bet you anything they would choose Kobe. I would put money down that LeBron does not win as many rings asKobe or MJ. Hell they probably won't winthe title this year.RebelBruiser said:
Hanmudog said:
I wouldn't bet against Lebron. Kobe is 32 actually. Lebron is 26. Kobe started earlier winning titles, but Jordan didn't win his first title until he was 28 years old.
Also, when has Kobe ever won a title without another All-Star or two on his roster? When did Jordan win a title without another All-Star or two on his roster? People hate Lebron for choosing to join a couple All-Stars in Miami. Well, Kobe and MJ couldn't do it without an All-Star or two either. The difference is they didn't have to leave to go find the All-Stars, the All-Stars were brought in or developed around them. Cleveland wasn't doing that for Lebron, or at least they were failing miserably at their attempts to do so.
Also, if you're talking last second shots, check out the analysis below that was done a couple years ago. Kobe isn't all that good at last second shots.
http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
Even back then, when Lebron was with the Cavs and he was the only option, he had a higher percentage on last second shots. Right now, in this playoffs, he looks like he's taken that part of his game to a new level. He has personally closed out at least 3 games on both ends of the floor for the Heat. Hate the guy if you like, but you can't deny what he's done in this postseason.
I don't hate LeBron for going to Miami. I hate him for being a prick and the entire "look at me" spectacle of that abomination last summer. Wade is the one that sparked that comeback last night. Sure LeBron helped at the end but he also missed 9 straight shots before Wade came back into the game.
It will really **** on LeBron's "legacy" when he does not win titles even with superstars.
It will really **** on LeBron's "legacy" when he does not win titles even with superstars.
Hanmudog said:
So, what happens if the Heat beat Dallas and then go on to win 3 or 4 titles with this core?
Obviously, you hated the decision thing. Do you hate the majority of your football players too for holding their 'look at me I'm making a college decision' press conferences?
I didn't watch The Decision. I'm sure it was an awful production by ESPN. Good for Lebron for using it to raise some money for charity, but I don't see it as any different than a recruit announcing his destination for college, and I don't condemn them for doing it. Lebron never got to do that in high school. He spent most of this past off-season being recruited by Miami, Chicago, Cleveland, New York, and others. The NBA created the recruiting format, and he had a press conference just like the high school kids have. The only difference is, he received a whole lot more attention since his decision was a much bigger deal and he's one of the best pure talents the NBA has ever seen.
2010-11 Regular Season:
Lebron James - 51.0% FG and 33.0% 3PT
Kobe Bryant - 45.1% FG and 32.3% 3 PT
2011 Playoffs:
Lebron James - 46.3% FG and 36.8% 3PT
Kobe Bryant - 44.6% FG and 29.3% 3PT
Career:
Lebron James - 47.9% FG and 32.9% 3PT
Kobe Bryant - 45.4% FG and 33.9% 3PT
I don't THINK Lebron is a better shooter than Kobe. I know he's a better shooter than Kobe. The only category that Kobe has a better percentage is career 3 point percentage, and he has shot 1% better from 3 for his career.
There is a perception that Kobe is a much better shooter, but it's just a perception. There is also a perception that Kobe is better in the clutch, but as the other link I provided showed, Kobe isn't all that good in the clutch, and Lebron has actually had better numbers in that as well.
I'll bet the majority of the basketball you watch involves the Lakers and Kobe, probably with a biased view of Kobe.
Lebron James - 51.0% FG and 33.0% 3PT
Kobe Bryant - 45.1% FG and 32.3% 3 PT
2011 Playoffs:
Lebron James - 46.3% FG and 36.8% 3PT
Kobe Bryant - 44.6% FG and 29.3% 3PT
Career:
Lebron James - 47.9% FG and 32.9% 3PT
Kobe Bryant - 45.4% FG and 33.9% 3PT
I don't THINK Lebron is a better shooter than Kobe. I know he's a better shooter than Kobe. The only category that Kobe has a better percentage is career 3 point percentage, and he has shot 1% better from 3 for his career.
There is a perception that Kobe is a much better shooter, but it's just a perception. There is also a perception that Kobe is better in the clutch, but as the other link I provided showed, Kobe isn't all that good in the clutch, and Lebron has actually had better numbers in that as well.
I'll bet the majority of the basketball you watch involves the Lakers and Kobe, probably with a biased view of Kobe.
Maybe when he turns 29 or 30 and his hops start to fade, he will become a better shooter than Kobe. But right now, no way he is. That is funny.
As far as being better than MJ. You take a 1991 or 1992 MJ and put him against Lebron right now and my opinion is Lebron wouldn't hold his jock strap. You say Lebron does things MJ couldn't do. What would those things be? Besides the fact that Lebron is 6'8 250 instead of 6'6 215-220. MJ could've still posted him up and faded away and Lebron wouldn't have touched it. Don't get me wrong, Lebron is a hell of an athlete, but you take each in his prime and I'd take Michael Jordan 100 percent of the time.
As far as being better than MJ. You take a 1991 or 1992 MJ and put him against Lebron right now and my opinion is Lebron wouldn't hold his jock strap. You say Lebron does things MJ couldn't do. What would those things be? Besides the fact that Lebron is 6'8 250 instead of 6'6 215-220. MJ could've still posted him up and faded away and Lebron wouldn't have touched it. Don't get me wrong, Lebron is a hell of an athlete, but you take each in his prime and I'd take Michael Jordan 100 percent of the time.
you are fighting a losing battle. Those numbers dont necessarily mean Lebron is a better shooter. They can easily be explained away in that Lebron take's a great deal of higher % shots. If you ask anyone in the NBA or associated with the NBA that question, a vast majority of them will answer Kobe. He's one of, if not the best, jump shooters eVER. No questions asked. I know you don't watch much basketball and went over to NBA.com for some stats, but you are just wrong. Hell they're a great deal of people that think Kobe is a better shooter than MJ.
What in the hell are you talking about? For the record, I grew up watching the Bulls on WGN (and until recently) haven't had a lot to talk about. This is probably the first time I've mentioned the Lakers (which I didn't even do that, I mentioned Kobe) all year. I apologize for responding to a thread on a message board about sports with a topic about sports. Next time I'll check with you on it and make sure you aren't all upset and distraught. Take a chill pill, Sally.
It's obviously a pretty good indicator, but you have to look at where the shots are coming from. Lots of post players that aren't great shooters still have good FG%'s.aTotal360 said:
I haven't watched Lebron this year, so maybe he's better, but when I watched him in the past, he was not a good enough shooter to rely on his jumpshot and be effective; he had to get to the hole. Even though Kobe was better when he could drive to the hoop, he's remained pretty effective as he relies on his jump shot more and more. Also, you have to remember that as gifted as Kobe is as an athlete, he's not close to being in the same discussion as Lebron.He spent several years trying to carry a team the way Lebron has without the physicaltools, which resulted in a lot of high volume shooting with a lot of bad shot selection.
You hit the nail on the head. By bruiser's way of thinking, Dwight Howard is one of the best shooters in the NBA. Give me a break, bruiser. You are just wrong on this.
KurtRambis4 said:
That would be why I included 3 point FG percentage, because I figured the jump shooting argument would be made against regular FG percentages. Kobe is a better 3 point shooter for his career, barely.
My point is that I think Kobe gets too much credit for being clutch and/or being a great shooter. He is a very good shooter, but he's not as good as people want to believe he is, and Lebron is not as bad as people want to think he is. He's envisioned as a different type of player, but he can shoot too. He's no Dirk, but he can shoot.
Right up there with Dirk and Ray Allen.. Ahead of Durant and Kobe. Lebron took the worst part of his game a few years ago and has made it one of his best. 5 years from now Lebron's shooting numbers will be better than Kobe's in every category
jacking up all kinds of crazy shots. Bron can beat you from anywhere on the court now, his game is that good
was bad. I just disputed your statement that he was a better shooterthan Kobe. That is just flat out wrong. Ask anyone in the NBA. For the record I have nothing against Lebron. Frankly, I like watching him play and don't get all of the hate. However, if I were to say he was a better shooter than Kobe, I'd be lying Furthermore, if I used FG% to back it up, I would look dumb. Answer this, is Dwight Howard a better shooter than Lebron?
think anyone (at least not me) is disputing the fact that Lebron is badass and a good shooter. However, I am saying he's not as good as Kobe (shooting). I think the vast majority of people in and around the game that know a whole lot more than you or I would agree with this.
Bruiser I wanted to read the entire thread but I had to stop when you said Lebron was a better shooter than Kobe. Have you lost your mind? That is one of the most absurd statements ever said on this site. Lebron isn't half the shooter Kobe is and it's not even close. If I was an NBA coach I would guard Rondo and Lebron the exact same way. Lebron's numbers will die quickly the second he loses a step because all he can do scoring wise is drive to the hole. He may be big but Kobe is light years better in the post as well. Lebron has no post up game. Kobe is probably the best midrange shooters of all time. Lets keep in mind Kobe is past his prime.
KurtRambis4 said:
You know what you are talking about. Others....not so much. Kobe and MJ can hit any shot contested by anyone when in their prime. Driving, post up, fade aways, all of them. Lebron probably will but he has not yet. He did recentlyy start hitting a lot of the mid range jumpers and turnaround jumpers that MJ and Kobe made a living on. If he gets their rings then great, if not he will never be considered better. For the record MJ and Kobe were always lockdown defenders. How soon we forget greatness. Lebron has not consistently hit the face up, post up ***** that MJ and Kobe have. That is a fact. He also, so far, lacks MJ and Kobe work ethic and killer attitude.
FlabLoser said:
Lebron already proved he made the caves 40 - 45 games better. How many games better would jordan make them? Furthermore, how many rings would Jordan have won on that ****** squad? If you say more than zero, you're probably lying. If you say more than one, you are definitely lying.
He had to go team up with Wade and Bosh to win championships. In the end, I doubt he cares. He'll have the championships he needs to put his name among the greatest, but people will always bring up the fact that he had to leave the team that drafted him and join two all stars to win the championships. Jordan couldn't win a championship alone, but he didn't leave Chicago to go team up with all stars in order to win hardware. The argument will always be made and it will always invalidate him in the minds of many when compared to Jordan, and it should.
Lebron is a great player, but he hasn't won a single championship. He has finally stepped up in the playoffs this year, credit to him. It's about time. Again though, win a few titles and then come back and have a discussion.
Lebron is a great player, but he hasn't won a single championship. He has finally stepped up in the playoffs this year, credit to him. It's about time. Again though, win a few titles and then come back and have a discussion.
How many rings would mm have won with the cavs? With lebron, one of the best teams in the league. Without, THE WORST team in the league. Btw, mj is better in my mind, but not by much and not in all areas. However, the rings argument is stupid and useless. The bulls were above average without Jordan. The cavs absolutely suck wo lebron.
but I'm sure Michael Jordan was just being told what to do and he didn't have any say so in it. That commercial is damn near brain-washing propoganda.
FYI, i don't dislike MJ at all, I actually admire him and his game..... I just hate when people let an athlete become a god and start treating them as such.
In fact, if this debate involved Lebron vs. anyone else, I would probably be on the opposite side of Lebron b/c the media is developing the same god-like tendencies it gave to Jordan.
FYI, i don't dislike MJ at all, I actually admire him and his game..... I just hate when people let an athlete become a god and start treating them as such.
In fact, if this debate involved Lebron vs. anyone else, I would probably be on the opposite side of Lebron b/c the media is developing the same god-like tendencies it gave to Jordan.
first off, i tried to make it very clear in my post that I was speaking about Lebron vs Jordan in a purely physical aspect. Let me quote my myself:
Secondly, its very interesting that this recent praise of Lebron has been related to him doing (and dominating) the small things in basketball in order to make his teammates better.
I did a quick google search (literally the first search I typed in) and came up with this interesting article from 2007
Here is an excerpt about Lebron making his teammates better:
ETA a missing word, I'm bad a proofreading
Secondly, its very interesting that this recent praise of Lebron has been related to him doing (and dominating) the small things in basketball in order to make his teammates better.
I did a quick google search (literally the first search I typed in) and came up with this interesting article from 2007
Here is an excerpt about Lebron making his teammates better:
ETA a missing word, I'm bad a proofreading