Listen, Most Of Us Are Proud To Be In The Big 12.....

[Vernon]

The BIG 12 was WVUs first option according to Oliver Luck and since he spearheaded the movement and discussions, pretty confident he knew of what he spoke of. As to the ACC, they didn't "shun" WVU as much as ignore WVU. Why anyone would want to associate with schools that have little to no interaction with WVU and many that moved on and now refuse to play WVU is a mystery. Don't see the attraction at all. Sure, some are closer--some, not all. But WVU had little to no history with many of these schools, at least not for half a century.

No offense but your post is full of inaccuracies. Oliver never said the Big 12 was WVU's first choice and it wasn't. The ACC was the first choice but the SEC was a close second. Additionally Clements handled the Big 12 for the most part and Oliver worked on the ACC and SEC. Also the ACC most certainly "shunned" WVU as they voted twice and WVU came up short.

WVU has plenty of history with the ACC teams and it doesn't even make sense to say otherwise. Look if you like the Big 12 and dislike the ACC that's fine but to post a long a message full of inaccurate info just seems silly.

 

[11nut]

No offense but your post is full of inaccuracies. Oliver never said the Big 12 was WVU's first choice and it wasn't. The ACC was the first choice but the SEC was a close second. Additionally Clements handled the Big 12 for the most part and Oliver worked on the ACC and SEC. Also the ACC most certainly "shunned" WVU as they voted twice and WVU came up short.

WVU has plenty of history with the ACC teams and it doesn't even make sense to say otherwise. Look if you like the Big 12 and dislike the ACC that's fine but to post a long a message full of inaccurate info just seems silly.

Our administration had to be pleased to get out of the mess we were in but the Big 12 had to be their last choice. ACC makes the most sense due to location but the SEC would have been a perfect world in sports.

 

[steeleer]

Personally I would like to be in the B10 with PSU, MD, Rutgers, OSU, Michigan and all those other schools. Don't waste your time telling me it would have never happened. That's just where I would have liked to have ended up.

But yeah .... I would have been pleased to have been included in the ACC. But we had to grab a partner when there was one to grab and I have no problem with the B12. It's a great conference.

Don't say never. The Big 10 has some major athletic credibility issues outside of OSU and Mich St (maybe). If we make some relatively simple changes (some in place now) then we can make a major change in our academic standing. WVU will never be a major research facility, but 10 years from now, that might not be as big a deal.

Personally, I've seen enough of the SEC to know we would fit in there well and be closer to our rivals. I've also seen enough of the Big East 2.0 (ACC) to tell them to pound sand...forever. The BIg 10 would be OK, but not a preferred spot. The B12 was a marriage of necessity for both sides and has been good for both sides and each (IMO) will wish the other good luck when our marriage ends at the end of the GOR.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

No offense but your post is full of inaccuracies. Oliver never said the Big 12 was WVU's first choice and it wasn't. The ACC was the first choice but the SEC was a close second. Additionally Clements handled the Big 12 for the most part and Oliver worked on the ACC and SEC. Also the ACC most certainly "shunned" WVU as they voted twice and WVU came up short.

WVU has plenty of history with the ACC teams and it doesn't even make sense to say otherwise. Look if you like the Big 12 and dislike the ACC that's fine but to post a long a message full of inaccurate info just seems silly.

Just to further clarify things .... both Oliver Luck and Jim Clements spoke publicly about working the phones and exploring the possibilities for WVU in the conference realignment game. They made it very clear they were looking into other options. There was NEVER a word spoken about the B12 being our first option.

But once the inquiries were made the only immediate options that WVU had were 1) the B12, and 2) wait and see what happens (with conferences that were already spurning them).

Ollie and Clements decided that WVU could not risk #2 (wait and see) and jumped on #1. That is when the B12 became our #1 option.

Maybe we later get into the ACC instead of Louisville. Maybe we don't. A bird in the hand (B12) is worth more than two in the bush (all other possibilities). The B12 became our #1 option when it was our only real option.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

No offense but your post is full of inaccuracies. Oliver never said the Big 12 was WVU's first choice and it wasn't. The ACC was the first choice but the SEC was a close second. Additionally Clements handled the Big 12 for the most part and Oliver worked on the ACC and SEC. Also the ACC most certainly "shunned" WVU as they voted twice and WVU came up short.

WVU has plenty of history with the ACC teams and it doesn't even make sense to say otherwise. Look if you like the Big 12 and dislike the ACC that's fine but to post a long a message full of inaccurate info just seems silly.

I am not so sure there were choices, but a desire to leave a dysfunctional and disintegrating Big East Conference. The ACC seemed liked the most likely escape strategy and thus was the initial focus, but as the realization that a Big 12 membership was possible - the focus quickly shifted in that direction. And I think that if West Virginia's population wasn't so small, the State's flagship university would have gotten timely offers from both the SEC and ACC. Especially with the evolving conference TV networks being planned at that time. The Big 12 wasn't planning on implementing a conference network and population wasn't as important as getting the best school available.

I think that Luck was the driving force behind Big 12 membership and Clements had a secondary role. IMO without Luck, WVU wouldn't be in a power conference today.

 

[MacMountie]

....it's obviously better than not being in a Power 5 conference.

Still, do most of us still believe it's really the ideal (Power 5) conference for our school?

-----------------

I certainly expect the typical 'cutting off the nose to spite the face' (a West Virginian trait by the way) comments regarding the ACC... ...but I believe that would have been the best fit for WVU.

I have to totally agree with you & as is typical on this board, most responders.poster in this thread have missed the point of you post entirely.

 

[steeleer]

I not so sure there were choices, but a desire to leave a dysfunctional and disintegrating Big East Conference. The ACC seemed liked the most likely escape strategy and thus was the initial focus, but as the realization that a Big 12 membership was possible - the focus quickly shifted in that direction. And I think that if West Virginia's population wasn't so small, the State's flagship university would have gotten timely offers from both the SEC and ACC. Especially with the evolving conference TV networks being planned at that time. The Big 12 wasn't planning on implementing a conference network and population wasn't as important as getting the best school available.

I think that Luck was the driving force behind Big 12 membership and Clements had a secondary role. IMO without Luck, WVU wouldn't be in a power conference today.

All true. We were in the SEC until things that normally don't dictate SEC decisions ($ and demographics) took center stage, which is the ONLY reason why Misery got that last SEC spot. I don't think our demographics are going to improve, but historically WVU's brand has translated to good TV ratings. If we work really hard on fixing things that drug us down (drop out rate, too high a rate of acceptance, etc) over the next 10 years and we win on the field and court, we are going to be an attractive addition to some P5 conference.

I've enjoyed the B12 ride, but by 2025 it will be time to move.

 

[steeleer]

I have to totally agree with you & as is typical on this board, most responders.poster in this thread have missed the point of you post entirely.

I get the point. There is a fine line between spite (and I definitely have some towards the ACC) and recognizing when you're not wanted. Even if we had gotten in, every road trip would have been the same tired crap we had in the BE 1.0. Redneck, incest jokes from the t-shirt alumni of the ACC schools who probably wouldn't be able to get into WVU out of high school.

Seriously...who needs that?

Like it or not, we are slowly reinventing our brand in this new conference. The WVU of 2011 will be a mere memory in 2025. Better rep on and off the field. Better academics.

 

[hbeacheer]

The sec was the best option. This was the 2nd best option. Yeah the acc has more and closer rivals, but it's a lame football conference and you have to deal with Tobacco road elitists in hoops. Ask Pitt and cuse how they like acc hoops so far. I think just about every wvu league basketball game was on one of the ESPN channels last year. I can't ever remember being on ESPN that much when we were in the BE. Besides the travel, this was the 2nd best option.

 

[EEResistable]

Would much rather be in the ACC for the rivalries. Having said that I'm glad we are in the B12 anyway. I believe if we were in the ACC our recruiting would suffer big time. What could we offer a recruit that a bunch of other ACC teams couldn't? Yes we have better fans that the vast majority of them but that's about it.

The ACC didn't want us and will never want us. I'm thrilled with that. I was hoping for a SEC invite and would have loved to be a part of the SEC. No chance there either.

 

[GoWVU]

Like it or not, we are slowly reinventing our brand in this new conference. The WVU of 2011 will be a mere memory in 2025. Better rep on and off the field. Better academics.

The WVU of 2011 is already a distant memory in 2015. I'm not so sure reinventing the brand is an entirely good thing as you imply.

Nothing wrong with making the effort to upgrade the programs and school overall, but you have to be very careful in the process. For example, it's pretty hard to make the argument that we have a better rep in football now as compared to several years ago. The rest of the sports? Maybe, but football is what drives the bus.

 

[Woody in Helvetia]

Maybe we later get into the ACC instead of Louisville. Maybe we don't. A bird in the hand (B12) is worth more than two in the bush (all other possibilities). The B12 became our #1 option when it was our only real option.

If we pass up the Big 12 - then Louisville gets the spot in the Big 12 and I would say we would have been the choice of the ACC.

 

[pressvirginia]

hiya lowfatmilk. no alias or prior postings. I read this board & parts of others sometimes. This one seems more positive/upbeat & it's a fun way to ease the pain of the offseason. Not into the know-it-alls & the sorority-like bickering that often goes on elsewhere. My general take is we're all on the same team & not presenting legal arguments or what have you.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

If we pass up the Big 12 - then Louisville gets the spot in the Big 12 and I would say we would have been the choice of the ACC.

What is interesting is that at the time, and at the last minute, Louisville did their absolute best to have the B12 dump us and go with them. They weren't thinking .... "Oh well ... if WVU gets into the B12 we'll just wait for the ACC." The ACC wasn't on the radar at the time.

We might have been picked up by the ACC if we hadn't have gotten into another conference. But we don't know that for sure. And we do know for sure they had already repeatedly spurned us. Why would we wait for a conference that had already told us "NO!" several times? ... makes no sense.

 

[EEResistable]

If we pass up the Big 12 - then Louisville gets the spot in the Big 12 and I would say we would have been the choice of the ACC.

If the ACC had been left with the choice of us or UConn they would have taken UConn. We were never, never getting in the ACC.

 

[Woody in Helvetia]

If the ACC had been left with the choice of us or UConn they would have taken UConn. We were never, never getting in the ACC.

Florida State and Clemson would have never let the ACC choose UConn over WVU. Those two schools forced the ACC to choose UL over UConn.

No matter what the point is moot because WVU made the right move in joining the B12. I still think the B12 should have invited UL and Cincy to get back to 12 members when they had the opportunity to do it.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

FSU and Clemson don't call the shots in the ACC.

UNC, UVA, and Duke do and they were never going to select us and they had made that clear many times in the past.

 

[Woody in Helvetia]

FSU and Clemson don't call the shots in the ACC.

UNC, UVA, and Duke do and they were never going to select us and they had made that clear many times in the past.

FSU and Clemson called the shots on expansion when Maryland left because both had made the threat of leaving for the Big 12 along with possibly GT. UConn was the choice of NC and Duke and they tried to force the issue but FSU and Clemson said NO.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

I get the point. There is a fine line between spite (and I definitely have some towards the ACC) and recognizing when you're not wanted. Even if we had gotten in, every road trip would have been the same tired crap we had in the BE 1.0. Redneck, incest jokes from the t-shirt alumni of the ACC schools who probably wouldn't be able to get into WVU out of high school.

Seriously...who needs that?

Like it or not, we are slowly reinventing our brand in this new conference. The WVU of 2011 will be a mere memory in 2025. Better rep on and off the field. Better academics.

Easy to recognize an imposter. Most WVU fans are rejoicing that we are in the Big 12 and not the ACC. And the t-shirt alumni of the ACC still can target their redneck and incest jokes at a few existing members. The last time I looked, Pitt's and VT's campuses were still in Appalachia. And if you think that Duke and North Carolina fans think highly of Pitt's academics you would be sadly mistaken - but give it time.

 

[LowFatMilk]

Easy to recognize an imposter.

It is ??

Who is the impostor ??

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

I am not so sure there were choices, but a desire to leave a dysfunctional and disintegrating Big East Conference. The ACC seemed liked the most likely escape strategy and thus was the initial focus, but as the realization that a Big 12 membership was possible - the focus quickly shifted in that direction. And I think that if West Virginia's population wasn't so small, the State's flagship university would have gotten timely offers from both the SEC and ACC. Especially with the evolving conference TV networks being planned at that time. The Big 12 wasn't planning on implementing a conference network and population wasn't as important as getting the best school available.

I think that Luck was the driving force behind Big 12 membership and Clements had a secondary role. IMO without Luck, WVU wouldn't be in a power conference today.[/QUOTE]

Amen to that!

 

[moe]

....it's obviously better than not being in a Power 5 conference.

Still, do most of us still believe it's really the ideal (Power 5) conference for our school?

-----------------

I certainly expect the typical 'cutting off the nose to spite the face' (a West Virginian trait by the way) comments regarding the ACC... ...but I believe that would have been the best fit for WVU.

That ship has sailed, slow news day.

 

[JIMEER86]

If WVU was in the ACC and UL was in the Big 12, many WVU fans would be complaining about being stuck in conference where football was 2nd to basketball, lower payout and less prestige, no round robin schedules (Pitt only plays FSU twice in 10 years), empty stadiums, a bad bowl lineup, no conference tie-in with the Sugar Bowl against the SEC, and travel would still be an issue.

Fortunately, WVU landed in a great conference with great schools.

Agree with you totally. At the time my preference was the SEC but with the emergence of TCU & Baylor & Okie St I am very happy in the B12. This conference will be one of the 2 or 3 best in both football and basketball every year.

 

[TruWVblu]

It is not the perfect fit but from what I understand, it was really the only choice we had. I have seen absolutely nothing of credibility that would suggest we ever had a real opportunity to be in the ACC, Big 10, or SEC.

 

[LowFatMilk]

It is not the perfect fit but from what I understand, it was really the only choice we had. I have seen absolutely nothing of credibility that would suggest we ever had a real opportunity to be in the ACC, Big 10, or SEC.

You're right Tru... ..the ACC, Big10, and SEC were not actual options. The real question ( that many prefer to ignore) is how many of those conferences declined us before (a desperate Big 12) invited us.

 

[Buckaineer]

If we pass up the Big 12 - then Louisville gets the spot in the Big 12 and I would say we would have been the choice of the ACC.

You do realize that the only reason Louisville made it into the P5 at all was because Maryland left for the Big Ten?
If that move didn't happen there was no opening. You act as though there was some open spot and that conference was expanding when that isn't remotely true. They filled in with Louisville.

If WVU did not take the BIG 12 invite they would most likely be a member of the AAC right now and be out of the P5 altogether. The ACC may still have taken Louisville due to basketball success.

 

[pressvirginia]

You're right Tru... ..the ACC, Big10, and SEC were not actual options. The real question ( that many prefer to ignore) is how many of those conferences declined us before (a desperate Big 12) invited us.

Not trying to ruffle feathers, but this point begs the question as to how responsible was Oliver Luck in landing West Virginia in the Big XII? How much persuasion & negotiation did he actually have to do? Maybe what Luck succeeded in doing the most was assisting WV in instead of Louisville & keeping WV out of the AAC.

There was a time when it seemed the Big XII was on the brink of folding. I think it was around the summer of 2011 when Texas, Okla, Okla State & Texas Tech were reportedly Pac-12 bound. That same year the league lost Colorado & Nebraska. Missouri & Texas A&M defected the following year.

We'll probably never know the full story & it's water under the bridge, but I am quite certain the Big XII was very pleased to usher in both WV & TCU. & considering the alternative, the pleased feelings are mutual.

As to other conference 'options' what I've thought all along is WV applied everywhere & made the move that it could. That's probably all the proactive stuff that Luck has been credited so much for. I'd bet there was at least some support to add the Mountaineers within all major conferences, but the Big XII gave the unanimous nod.

 

[wbgvwbgv]

It is not the perfect fit but from what I understand, it was really the only choice we had. I have seen absolutely nothing of credibility that would suggest we ever had a real opportunity to be in the ACC, Big 10, or SEC.

Of course you could say that about every school that wasn't already in a power conference. Pitt's only option was the ACC. Rutgers' only option was the Big 10. Utah's only option was the PAC12. TCU's only option was the Big 12. Syracuse & Louisville's only option was the ACC. You could even say that Penn State's only option was the Big 10. Schools that decided to change from one power conference to another power conference like Maryland and Texas A&M were the only schools that really had options.

And not one non-power school in recent times that was offered membership to a power conference ever declined that offer (except Notre Dame). I can't imagine any President or A.D. from any school not jumping on a power conference membership worth hundreds of millions of dollars - that would be totally irresponsible and stupid (Furfari & friends).

 

[Buckaineer]

The BIG 12 wasn't "desperate". They had other options at the time they added WVU, but their tv partners advised that WVU was the most valuable addition.
The situation was that they needed to remain at 10 schools to guarantee their tv contract with FOX but still had several years remaining on their ESPN contract regardless.

Louisville people have long claimed they weren't going to leave the Big East early, WVU did agree to that and that was that. WVU was the top choice.

However, if WVU had not agreed to join the BIG 12 at that time what would have happened? WVU did not know if there would even be a Big East the following year--after Pitt and SU bolted there weren't enough teams to have an NCAA football conference left. UC, UL, RU and UConn were all actively seeking to leave and each had its own plusses to counter WVUs.

Louisville as mentioned wasn't leaving the Big East early, again according to their fans. So if WVU hadn't left earlier than the stipulated time--which was resolved in court as we remember, the BIG 12 was still going to add someone.

Best guess is that someone would have been BYU--NOT Louisville which wasn't moving early or paying a heavy fine to move as WVU did.

That means that when Maryland left for the Big Ten, WVU would have been one of several schools in contention for the open spot in the ACC. Louisville probably would have been in that position as well as other schools they considered such as UConn and UC. Out of those schools, considering the ACC never showed any interest in adding WVU since at least the earliest days of that conference--its most likely WVU would have remained in the defunct Big East while RU and UL moved on.

That would have been the end of WVU athletics.

Luck not only made the right choice for WVU but he also made the wisest choice. This past year in the BIG 12 WV earned $23 million from its new conference and was able to make another $7 million or so based on its new conferences tier 3 rights. This will continue to increase dramatically through 2025. In the meantime WVU has a chance to play many of the top teams in the country every year home-home and compete for the national championship.

 

[LowFatMilk]

The topic of discussion is that you don't like it. The response is there was no other choice (but to join the Big 12).

....to this....

Luck not only made the right choice for WVU but he also made the wisest choice (by joining the Big 12).

I know somewhere in this long thread you claimed you 'misspoke'....but still you've went to opposite extremes.