Looking forward with a backwards glance

MaxMaroon · Dec 1, 2008

On the future of Mississippi State's football program in regards to a new coach, the AD would be wise to look back on what was flawed about the last hiring.

Recalling the days leading up to - and the eventual announcement of - Croom's hiring, there were 3 distinct questions that I needed answered.
1) Sylvester WHO?
I remember asking several people who in the hell is this guy? mainly because I had never heard of him before. When my inquires to local sports talk radio and posts on Gene's were replied to with smarmy answers like he's a great hire or you need to be quiet because we don't want to lose a chance to hire Croom, I realized that I was not going to get an honest response to a legit question. It only helped confirm the nagging feelings I had that led to question number 2...
2) Has he ever coached in the college ranks?
This one was pretty easy. It was quickly pointed out to me from the aforementioned helpful groups - sports radio and Gene's - that NO, Croom had never coached college ball but he had been turned down for quite a few college coaching jobs. I took that to mean he was experienced at interviewing and would likely not command a larger salary as a know coach with a proven track record. This lead to question number 3....
3) Did we hire someone cheap? Answer - YES. In Larry Templeton fashion we made sure we got what we paid for, the Green Bay Packer's water boy! Byrne seems to be a much sharper study to the aspirations of most MSU faithful to actually find a coach with experience who can build a real competitor instead of churn out a lucky 7-5 campaign every 4th year. You get what you pay for and that is exactly what we got with Croom. You don't hire a football coach 'on the cheap.'

Going forward, here are two things that Byrne and company need to be looking for in a new football coach.
1) Offensive innovation - MSU is in desperate need for a coach who can either bring in a immaginative offensive coordinator or who himself has a more practical and effective gameplan for o-line. The West Coast crap-tacular display that Croom attempted to run (without the receiver talent or speed for it) needs to be junked and NEVER used again.

2) Recruiting - MSU has fallen drastically in recruiting both HS and JUCO talent over the last 5 years. We need a coach who can recruit with both name recognition and terrific interpersonal skills. A football coach is not just a coach, he is also an ambassador for the univeristy. I want to see a coah who loves MSU and doesn't just hope we have good seasons but knows we are going to have good seasons, big bowls and championship games. That sells a potential recruit more than anything else. The we are going somewhere attitude will inspire a lot of young men to give MSU a second look and make them like what they see.

These are just my thoughts based on the past and my eagerness for a better future for Mississippi State in football. I welcome any agreeable or disagreeable observations. GO STATE!

MaxMaroon · Dec 1, 2008

On the future of Mississippi State's football program in regards to a new coach, the AD would be wise to look back on what was flawed about the last hiring.

Recalling the days leading up to - and the eventual announcement of - Croom's hiring, there were 3 distinct questions that I needed answered.
1) Sylvester WHO?
I remember asking several people who in the hell is this guy? mainly because I had never heard of him before. When my inquires to local sports talk radio and posts on Gene's were replied to with smarmy answers like he's a great hire or you need to be quiet because we don't want to lose a chance to hire Croom, I realized that I was not going to get an honest response to a legit question. It only helped confirm the nagging feelings I had that led to question number 2...
2) Has he ever coached in the college ranks?
This one was pretty easy. It was quickly pointed out to me from the aforementioned helpful groups - sports radio and Gene's - that NO, Croom had never coached college ball but he had been turned down for quite a few college coaching jobs. I took that to mean he was experienced at interviewing and would likely not command a larger salary as a know coach with a proven track record. This lead to question number 3....
3) Did we hire someone cheap? Answer - YES. In Larry Templeton fashion we made sure we got what we paid for, the Green Bay Packer's water boy! Byrne seems to be a much sharper study to the aspirations of most MSU faithful to actually find a coach with experience who can build a real competitor instead of churn out a lucky 7-5 campaign every 4th year. You get what you pay for and that is exactly what we got with Croom. You don't hire a football coach 'on the cheap.'

Going forward, here are two things that Byrne and company need to be looking for in a new football coach.
1) Offensive innovation - MSU is in desperate need for a coach who can either bring in a immaginative offensive coordinator or who himself has a more practical and effective gameplan for o-line. The West Coast crap-tacular display that Croom attempted to run (without the receiver talent or speed for it) needs to be junked and NEVER used again.

2) Recruiting - MSU has fallen drastically in recruiting both HS and JUCO talent over the last 5 years. We need a coach who can recruit with both name recognition and terrific interpersonal skills. A football coach is not just a coach, he is also an ambassador for the univeristy. I want to see a coah who loves MSU and doesn't just hope we have good seasons but knows we are going to have good seasons, big bowls and championship games. That sells a potential recruit more than anything else. The we are going somewhere attitude will inspire a lot of young men to give MSU a second look and make them like what they see.

These are just my thoughts based on the past and my eagerness for a better future for Mississippi State in football. I welcome any agreeable or disagreeable observations. GO STATE!

MaroonInNashville · Dec 1, 2008

Sounds exactly like what I would hope our esteemed AD would be asking/saying...

Shmuley · Dec 2, 2008

This point you made is gold:

I want to see a coach who loves MSU and doesn't just hope we have good seasons but knows we are going to have good seasons, big bowls and championship games. That sells a potential recruit more than anything else. The we are going somewhere attitude will inspire a lot of young men to give MSU a second look and make them like what they see.

How cool will it be to have a coach who has competency, energy and confidence to go with a kick-*** work ethic?

Dawg97.sixpack · Dec 2, 2008

MaxMaroon said:
2) Has he ever coached in the college ranks?

I agree with everything but this answer you gave. He did coach for Alabama as a linebacker coach for 11 years.

vandaldawg · Dec 2, 2008

1) Sylvester WHO?

Uh, the guy that was in the final two for the Bama job with Mike Shula a year prior, and probably should have gotten it based on that competition. Yeah, we knew who he was.

2) Has he ever coached in the college ranks?

Head Coach? No. But he only got on shot at that (that I'm aware of) before us (see above). Coached at all? Yeah, a lot. Under Bear.

3) Did we hire someone cheap?

What does this even mean? That we could have paid more for someone else? We paid what we paid. It could have been Bellicheck accepting the job and he would have gotten 900,000 or whatever it was. That's just what we paid. Green Bay's water boy? I think he was the running back's coach, and at the time Green Bay's running backs were tearing it up.

And Schmuley, how is this point "gold". Want to see a coach who loves MSU? Well I guess we better prepare for Rockey Part Deux or Bobby Wallace, because the rest of the coaches out there - the coaches we want - don't give a rat piss about MSU. They care about scaling the professional ladder, glory, professional goals, power, prestige, money, fame, etc. And while they may "know" we are going to have good seasons, big bowls, and championships, they are also going to hope a little, because there is precisous little history or case to be made that it will be anything other than a tough, tough task.

newyorkdawg · Dec 2, 2008

vandaldawg · Dec 2, 2008

Point out which one of the things I said are wrong.

Go.

Now that you're done, Croom is gone. You can stop inventing patently false rationalizations for firing him.

HD6 · Dec 2, 2008

the fact they hired Shula proves a point, doesn't it.

Just out of curiousity, who was the runner up to Urban Meyer? Les Miles? Bobby Petrino? The fact that you finished second in a coaching search doesn't make you a household name.

Shmuley · Dec 2, 2008

"Inventing patently false rationalizations for firing [Croom]?"

Who the f@ck said anything about rationalizing Croom's shitcanning? There was nothing to rationalize. The MFer was an incompetent, lazy idiot with a now proven track record of stupidity, both on and off the field. 10-30 against SEC competition. The fact that there was evidence on the front end that he was non-qualified serves to indict that MFer LT, who is singularly responsible for giving us an extra serving of NCAA sanctions disguised as a black bear. The points made are legitimate. You can dispute them all you want. Have at it.

As for the internal motiviations of the new guy, I don't give a rat's piss, as you say. I want the new guy to eventually make me believe he loves state. If he can do that, then perhaps recruits will believe it too.

tennisdawg.sixpack · Dec 2, 2008

Shmuley said:
"Inventing patently false rationalizations for firing [Croom]?"

Who the f@ck said anything about rationalizing Croom's shitcanning? There was nothing to rationalize. The MFer was an incompetent, lazy idiot with a now proven track record of stupidity, both on and off the field. 10-30 against SEC competition. The fact that there was evidence on the front end that he was non-qualified serves to indict that MFer LT, who is singularly responsible for giving us an extra serving of NCAA sanctions disguised as a black bear. The points made are legitimate. You can dispute them all you want. Have at it.

As for the internal motiviations of the new guy, I don't give a rat's piss, as you say. I want the new guy to eventually make me believe he loves state. If he can do that, then perhaps recruits will believe it too.

This should be read aloud during poetry night at the Depot.

vandaldawg · Dec 2, 2008

But household name wasn't the barometer. Heard of him? Yeah, I'd say the majority of the MSU fanbase paid attention to that hiring process and knew who he was.

Does it prove a point? It does. The point it proves may be the point you are suggesting, or the point that was suggested at the time. Or something else entirely.

El Diablo Blanco · Dec 2, 2008

He was not ready to be a head coach. Shula sucked less between the 2.

Stormrider81 · Dec 2, 2008

I know Bama hired Shula, but had no idea who the runner-up was. I didn't care either. Bama chose between two unqualified coaches, and they chose the one easier to fire. Who cares who the runner-up was? Had Price not messed up and Bama been forced to make a change well after the normal process, I contend that Sly would never have been in the top 2 for that job, ever. Only LT would have hired the coach Bama passed over for Shula.

When we hired Sly I also had to ask who he was.

Coach34 · Dec 2, 2008

vandaldawg said:
But household name wasn't the barometer. Heard of him? Yeah, I'd say the majority of the MSU fanbase paid attention to that hiring process and knew who he was.

Does it prove a point? It does. The point it proves may be the point you are suggesting, or the point that was suggested at the time. Or something else entirely.

about as closely as most people, and I had never heard the man's name before in my life. I'd say the majority of the fanbase had no freaking clue at all who this assclown was

Maroon Eagle · Dec 2, 2008

...but I had not heard of him previous to that.

vandaldawg · Dec 2, 2008

At some point, and even very early, he better convince me he loves MSU. But before the hire, that doesn't exist. The post was about what to look for in the hiring process. Loving MSU narrows it down to Rockey and Bobby Wallace. Is that who you want *******?

Loving MSU shouldn't be a required until something like year one. Until that, it is an acting job.

Croom wasn't ready to be head coach. He had an offensive philosophy that required future pros at all the skill positions and probably on the lines. He painted himself into a corner with the system and the coordinators he hired to support it, and then was too stubborn - until too late - to change it. He was insconsistent and even inexplicable with game and clock management. Those facts I don't dispute, nor do I dispute they were reason enough to fire him.

I also don't think he was lazy, or stupid. He was a classic example of the Peter Principle.

Shmuley · Dec 2, 2008

[Croom] was a classic example of the Peter Principle.

Even though you called me "*******." But I disagree strongly with your assertion that Croom was not lazy.

I acknowledge your point, albeit strained, that we shouldn't make "love of MSU" a condition to employment. I don't think anyone is seriously disputing that point.

vandaldawg · Dec 2, 2008

Sorry about that. Seriously. - 500 pts for me. But the rest of my points I stand behind. And I sincerely hope your face isn't asslike, if it is, I apologize for that too.

vandaldawg · Dec 2, 2008

I just don't think so. And I haven't seen or heard what the evidence to that effect is. Usually the laziness attack is levied on someone based upon recruting. Now, his early efforts on recruiting I don't think were laziness, just, for lack of a better word, orientation. Now this class may be a better example of what he was/is capable of. I just hope we can get a coach that can keep it together.

vandaldawg · Dec 2, 2008

But again, I'd wager that the majority of the MSU fanbase HAD heard of him specifically because of the BAMA process. For better or worse - probably worse - we keep a close eye on everything Bama does.

Stormrider81 · Dec 2, 2008

Nobody I knew had any clue who he was. Now that's not necessarily indicative of the MSU fanbase at large, but I just don't think we have that many fans that are so in tune with Bama that they knew who Sly Croom was, before or after the Tide passed him over for Shula. All I know is I heard a lot of "who is this guy" prior to his press conference rather than "oh, this is the guy that came in second for Bama's head coaching position".

tommyboy1520 · Dec 2, 2008

You assume that the majority of the fanbase kept up with Bama's hiring of Shula. That's just not true. The number of people who keep up with a rival's coaching hire is very small when looking at the entire fanbase. I would say that a huge majority of the posters on here keep up with that stuff. But the number of posters/readers on here, BDJ and swan lake are a very small percentage of State's fanbase. That being said, there were still many, many people even here who had no idea who Croom was when he was hired. Based on that, I'd say the majority of the fanbase had never heard of Croom at all.

thunderclap · Dec 2, 2008

1. If he's not a Bama grad and former player under the Bear, no way in hell does he interview for the Bama job. Just sayin'.
2. Yes, he was an assistant. 17 years earlier. Before the guys he recruited were born. So he was more than a little removed.
3. Yeah. We hired on the cheap. Any doubts about this, check LT's track record.

The whole Croom hire was a PR thing for Larry and it was obvious because Larry gave Croom a job and then applied ZERO pressure on the guy to win. There were plenty of more qualified guys out there, both white and black and Asian and Hispanic and whatever.

Looking forward with a backwards glance

MaxMaroon

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