LOSt

TnDawg76

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Feb 17, 2008
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The people did not die in the plane crash. Everything that happened on the Island was real. Jacob was the guy who protected the gateway to hell, the island is limbo, the first circle of hell (Dante's Divine Comedy). Smokie is simply an evil part of hell that exists on the island. I think he is the spiritual embodiement of Lucifer. The light did not have the same effect on Desmond and Jack because at the point when they went down into it they were both redeemed people. The people on the Island are all in need of redemption. It is only after they are redeemed that they can ever truly leave the island. That is why the Oceanic six that escaped at the end of season 4 have to come back to the island.

In the end, the relationships forged on the island allowed them to find the redemption they needed. The flash sideways was the purgatory that they had created for themselves so that they could all cross over together. All in all, I thought it was a great ending.
 

GroveHard

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Mar 3, 2008
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I thought about the Alex angle too, but he also might not be going to the same place as the Losties because he was generally a bastard for the vast majority of the series. It reminded me of his hesitation to be "judged" by the island.

Also, Desmond sort of came to be the most interesting character on the show. Besides being able to withstand the electromagnetism, he was the only one aware of the flash sideways after life while on the island.
 

KurtRambis4

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Aug 30, 2006
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have obviously never been interviewed before....

/says the guy who thinks the reason we lost a game was offense (when we shot 50% in the last 5 mins and 42% from the floor and 37% from behind the arc)
 
Apr 6, 2010
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FlabLoser said:
BellyButtonOatmeal said:
I somehow want to believe an ending where the island was not real...mainly because the freaking thing moved if you didnt notice.

1. What was the point of Dharma in this whole thing?
2.The numbers?
3.Basically everything from season 2.

Jimmy Kimmel's thought that it was all a test for Jack makes some sense.

Still a good show but very confusing. </p>
We saw a while back that in Jacob's lighthouse contraption, the numbers each represented a different candidate. The number for each candidate was the position on the dial that allowed the lighthouse lens to view that person.
You arecorrect kind sir.

I am an idiot.
 

fishwater99

Freshman
Jun 4, 2007
14,072
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1st Game
We were up67-60withthree minutes remaining, and failed to score for the remainder of regulation? We have no offense under Stans.
Standsberry failed to draw up and implement plays to score a single point, or even get to the foul line for a layup, he stalled.
We go on to lose the game 81-75. We only scored 8 points in the last 8 minutes of that game.

2nd Game
Up62-57with 2:28 left. Stans go to the stall, missed shot, turnover, missed free throws, then foul up 3 with 4 seconds left, you know the rest...

So to say that Stans lack of offense was not the cause of these losses is just crazy. We failed to close out both games before Overtime.
 

Sutterkane

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Jan 23, 2007
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would try to turn a thread about one of the best tv shows of our time into a thread about living and dying by the 3 and how he hates Rick Stansbury.

You really have some hate issues.
 

KurtRambis4

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Aug 30, 2006
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since you were talking about the second game in the original thread, one would assume I'm responding about the second game. But that level of assumption has to figure in that you are dealing with someone that has any level of intelligence. Also, my numbers were actually wrong. We shot 60% from the field in the last five minutes of that game. If you would like me to show you the complete box score from the last five minutes I will. I think it pretty much destroys your "stans choked down the stretch" argument. The ability to miss crucial FTs at the end is what killed us.


/sorry for the threadjack people, I just had to point out fishwater's dumbassedness for the 10000 time
 

hatfieldms

All-Conference
Feb 20, 2008
8,599
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He is just a babbling idiot whose pea brain isnt large enough to have more than one thought in it at a time. Unfortunately for everyone on here, Coach34 put that one Stansbury thought in his head a while back and he is stuck on it
 

fishwater99

Freshman
Jun 4, 2007
14,072
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Sure go ahead and enlighten me, since you threadjacked LOST...

Here is the original..

</p>

</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Coach34 wrote: </p>

</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">we didn't do what it took to win the game- it's that simple...it shouldnt have come down to that last play</p>

</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"></p>

</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"></p>

</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><span class="post-title">If our coach had an offense worth a damn..</span></p>

</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">We would have won, you have to be able to draw up plays and execute them in the final minutes of games, and Stans has no clue when it comes down to that.</p>

</p>

<span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Up62-57with 2:28 left. Stans go to the stall, missed shot, turnover, missed free throws, then foul up 3 with 4 seconds left.</span></p>
 

KurtRambis4

Redshirt
Aug 30, 2006
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nitpicking, why don't you go back and look at the last five minutes. Please. You obviously haven't.
 

weblow

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Mar 3, 2008
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Long, long, read but if you are a fan of Lost, this will explain the crap you don't understand.
I found this posted on another forum. Supposedly from a Lost writer.
A good read nonetheless.

"Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.

For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding."
 

Hotel Roosevelt

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Sep 18, 2009
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Just glanced through it, haven't read it all, but it obviously wasn't written by one of the show's writers.

1) Ben wasn't inside the church because he wasn't in season one? Desmond, Penny, Libby, and Bernard were all inside the church and did not appear in season one.

2) That wasn't JJ Abrams' ending. People give Abrams way, way, way too much credit for Lost. That was Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse's ending. If you feel the need to thank any one (or two) people for Lost, it's those guys. They are the real architects behind the show.

Just on a glance it might not be a terrible analysis, but it is written by a misinformed fan disingenuously claiming to be a writer.
 

weblow

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Mar 3, 2008
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Hotel Roosevelt said:
Just glanced through it, haven't read it all, but it obviously wasn't written by one of the show's writers.

1) Ben wasn't inside the church because he wasn't in season one? Desmond, Penny, Libby, and Bernard were all inside the church and did not appear in season one.

2) That wasn't JJ Abrams' ending. People give Abrams way, way, way too much credit for Lost. That was Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse's ending. If you feel the need to thank any one (or two) people for Lost, it's those guys. They are the real architects behind the show.

Just on a glance it might not be a terrible analysis, but it is written by a misinformed fan disingenuously claiming to be a writer.

Whether or not it was JJ's ending was debated on a radio program today and there are people that fall on both sides of the argument. I personally could give a **** who wrote the ending. My point in posting the "analysis" as you call it was that it put in to words what many on this board and other boards have been trying to say but could not really figure out how to say it.

Maybe this guy did have some writing responsibilities and maybe he did not, that makes zero difference to me.

Best explanation since Mr. Lange and his explanation of Buffy The Vampire Slayer. "Jew broad fights Dracula."
 

TR.sixpack

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Feb 14, 2008
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looking up as some of the Losties fly away, just before dying) was always the ending, and most likely came from Abrams and Damon Lindelof. JJ left the show early on in Season 1, handing over duties to Carlton Cuse. Abrams hasn't done squat w/ the show since 2004, other than cash checks.
 

Hotel Roosevelt

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Sep 18, 2009
281
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I know it was early and I know Lindelof and Cuse have commented on it before, but I can't remember when exactly they said they knew they had it.

If we are talking just the last shot (Jack's eye closing) then I could believe they had that idea at the start. I might be to blame for just skimming the analysis quick, but I took the "ending" to mean the last 10 minutes or so (Jack entering the church, talking to Christian, meeting everyone inside inter-cut with Jack dying). No way Abrams came up with that six years ago. That was Cuse and Lindelof's baby.

I'm hesitant to credit Abrams with anything after season one, other than co-writing the season three premiere. If anyone has a link to an interview with these guys talking about what the final shot will be, I'd love to read it again.
 

SilentDog

Redshirt
Feb 4, 2010
75
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Ben wasn't in the church bc, as Christian said, (paraphrased) "this place is here so you can find one another. the most important part of your life was with these people." hence, Ben was not in this group but would be linked more with Danielle and Alex.

also, the flash-FORWARDs with Jack (bearded and medicated) were flash-FORWARDs at that point in the show, but were a reality after they left the island and therefore the past once they went back to the island. so, they happened.