Luke Heimlich

paindonthurt_

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Jun 27, 2009
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If this isn’t kosher, lock it up, but the other thread got me researching some of that story on Heimlich.

I was unaware the victim was his brothers daughter.

Apparently parents side with Luke and maintain that he is innocent, but they agreed to plea deal for several reasons.
1. Put it in the past to help family.
2. Keep the little girl from having to possibly testify
3. Was a good deal and kept there son from potentially getting 40 weeks in juvie

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articl...ssf/2018/06/mlbs_action_a_calculation_not.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadsp...ich-denies-molesting-his-niece-1825831942/amp

I’m not making a judgement on whether he did it or not, but based on these two articles, I think he deserves a second chance. Many more articles out there abt it.
 

Go Budaw

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Aug 22, 2012
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Just a 17ed up situation all the way around. Regardless of whether he’s guilty or innocent, it’s pretty clear that it has probably ripped that family apart. Terrible.
 

civildawg88

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Aug 22, 2012
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It’s a really sad story especially if his niece just made it up. I mean it says she was six, it would be hard for me to trust what comes out of a six year olds mouth. It has basically ruined his life on something a six year old said, pretty messed up either way
 

57stratdawg

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Werent there legal concerns about him potentially crossing state (or international) borders that kept MLB teams away? I don’t think social protest was the primary reason he was passed over.
 

BELdog

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Aug 23, 2012
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It’s a really sad story especially if his niece just made it up. I mean it says she was six, it would be hard for me to trust what comes out of a six year olds mouth. It has basically ruined his life on something a six year old said, pretty messed up either way

Six year olds don't just throw out accusations like that. Six year olds don't understand the magnitude of an accusation like that. Six year olds don't have ulterior motives. A high school kid is much more likely to lie about a situation like that than a six year old. Six year olds lie about who ate the last cookie. They don't lie about being touched inappropriately.
 

paindonthurt_

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If you can provide links I’ll read them, but regardless of what is said in any article, the social aspect is a very big reason he was passed over.

How you could think otherwise is beyond my comprehension.
 

Go Budaw

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It’s a really sad story especially if his niece just made it up. I mean it says she was six, it would be hard for me to trust what comes out of a six year olds mouth. It has basically ruined his life on something a six year old said, pretty messed up either way

The other thing about it is that there was no way his family could have known, at age 15, that he was a potential MLB first round draft pick when they gave him whatever legal advice they gave him. This is, again, regardless of guilt / innocence. If he was just a dude that messed up one time in high school and ended up getting a bachelors and selling insurance or something, the whole thing probably gets expunged from his record by the time he graduates and is never spoken of again. But since he was a highly thought of MLB prospect, people of course were interested in every bit of dirt out there. I wouldn’t even be surprised if it was purposefully leaked from his brother’s side of the family once it became clear that he was an elite prospect. The timing of it (right before draft day in 2017) certainly made it appear that way.
 

paindonthurt_

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I’m kind of back and forth on this.

Something could have happened that caused he to say something that was alarming, but what actually happened could have not been that big of a deal. It could be just that a 6 year old said something that happened, but it was taken out of context bc I 6 year old has no ideal to put words or think in context.

I have multiple nieces and nephews. They say stuff all the time that’s like what the 17, but then you realize they don’t exactly mean what they say.

Again, I’m not saying he is innocent, but his mom and dad think he is. From the article, I think it states the mom was baby sitting the girl and other children when this all happened. It’s hard for me to believe they’d go against one son and a 6 year old niece if they didn’t truly believe Luke.
 

Willow Grove Dawg

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Isn't the Registered Sex Offender List readily available for public viewing? If so someone would have accidentally found out some time.

I don't think any of us have enough facts about the case to pass judgement.
 

BKCBully

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Jul 19, 2013
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I wanna make a joke about heimlich maneuver.
But there's no way do to so when sexual abuse is in question.
 

Go Budaw

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Aug 22, 2012
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Six year olds don't just throw out accusations like that. Six year olds don't understand the magnitude of an accusation like that. Six year olds don't have ulterior motives. A high school kid is much more likely to lie about a situation like that than a six year old. Six year olds lie about who ate the last cookie. They don't lie about being touched inappropriately.

You’re right, it’s not a 6 year old’s natural inclination to do those any of those things. But, a 6 year old can be convinced / coerced to say just about anything by an influential adult. Who’s to say the older brother didn’t have it out for Luke for any number of potential reasons (major family disagreement, etc) and big brother decided that was a great way to get back at him? Not saying at all that’s actually what happened, I have no facts of the case and this is just a devil’s advocate scenario. But stranger things happen every day....it’s a 17ed up world that we live in.
 

deadheaddawg

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You’re right, it’s not a 6 year old’s natural inclination to do those any of those things. But, a 6 year old can be convinced / coerced to say just about anything by an influential adult. Who’s to say the older brother didn’t have it out for Luke for any number of potential reasons (major family disagreement, etc) and big brother decided that was a great way to get back at him? Not saying at all that’s actually what happened, I have no facts of the case and this is just a devil’s advocate scenario. But stranger things happen every day....it’s a 17ed up world that we live in.

Or the mom. Or the kid couybe telling the truth. Definitely heartbreaking no matter what
 

HamSammich

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But I thought it was multiple charges from him being 13-16 and the child being 4-6. Three years worth of this going on. If he would have been one year older he would have went to prison for a long time.
 

BELdog

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Aug 23, 2012
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I wanna make a joke about heimlich maneuver.
But there's no way do to so when sexual abuse is in question.

Except you kinda still did, which shows you have no objection to making the joke. You just don't want to be perceived as the kind of guy who would make that joke.
 

BELdog

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Aug 23, 2012
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You’re right, it’s not a 6 year old’s natural inclination to do those any of those things. But, a 6 year old can be convinced / coerced to say just about anything by an influential adult. Who’s to say the older brother didn’t have it out for Luke for any number of potential reasons (major family disagreement, etc) and big brother decided that was a great way to get back at him? Not saying at all that’s actually what happened, I have no facts of the case and this is just a devil’s advocate scenario. But stranger things happen every day....it’s a 17ed up world that we live in.

There would have to be a pretty big rift in the family for such a serious accusation to be made and then coach a kid to lie about it. I'm not saying it isn't possible. I'm just saying it's highly unlikely. There's no way I take a plea on something that will follow me the rest of my life if I know I'm innocent. I think most people would feel the same way. This dude is a pedophile for life now. The most likely scenario is that he mollested his niece. She told her parents. Parents were rightfully pissed and filed charges. Luke's parents were in an awful situation and talked to lawyers to figure out a plea deal to mitigate damages. Now, there's a GIANT rift in the family because Luke is a pedo whom touched his niece.
 

BELdog

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I’m kind of back and forth on this.

Something could have happened that caused he to say something that was alarming, but what actually happened could have not been that big of a deal. It could be just that a 6 year old said something that happened, but it was taken out of context bc I 6 year old has no ideal to put words or think in context.

I have multiple nieces and nephews. They say stuff all the time that’s like what the 17, but then you realize they don’t exactly mean what they say.

Again, I’m not saying he is innocent, but his mom and dad think he is. From the article, I think it states the mom was baby sitting the girl and other children when this all happened. It’s hard for me to believe they’d go against one son and a 6 year old niece if they didn’t truly believe Luke.

Have you read the actual statements from the six year old? She goes into pretty graphic detail. It would be impossible to misinterpret what she says happened.
 

deadheaddawg

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Sep 3, 2012
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https://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-s...heimlich-ready-to-return-for-beavers-baseball

Luke has five nephews and nieces, including two by his oldest brother, Josh. Josh was married for a few years to his ex-wife, who has moved out of state. Soon after their divorce, Josh was granted custody of their two children. The mother had visitation rights that allowed her to have the children with her over Christmas holidays and for a portion of the summer. It was during the summer of 2012 that she brought up the allegations of abuse to Josh after a discussion with their daughter.

Josh spoke with his father, who then had several talks with Luke. During each of the conversations, Luke denied the allegations.

From about 2010 to 2012, and after Josh's divorce, Meridee would watch his children at her home after school while he was at work. She would have them for an hour each morning before they'd go to school. She would pick up the kids from school and bring them home in the afternoon, and Josh would retrieve them after he got off work. During that time is when the alleged incidents involving Luke occurred.

Meridee was with the kids virtually the entire time and witnessed nothing involving the kids and Luke. During a large portion of that period, Luke participated on football, basketball and baseball teams that practiced during that time frame, so he was not often at home when Josh's kids were there.

Josh eventually went to the police about the matter. After interviews with the ex-wife and her daughter, two charges of abuse were levied against Luke.

• The parents retained an attorney on Luke's behalf. Luke continued to maintain his innocence.

In May 2012, Luke's sexual history was obtained via clinical interview and a sexual history polygraph conducted by Rick Minnich, chief examiner of Minnich Polygraph Services of Burien, Washington.

Minnich was prohibited from asking any question directly related to Luke's niece.

From the report:

"It was the opinion of Mr. Minnich that Luke was truthful when he answered 'no' to the following questions: 'Not to include (the niece), have you engaged in sexual conduct with any member of your family?' And, 'Not to include (the niece), have you engaged in sexual contact with anyone else more than two years younger than you?'"

Polygraph tests often are used to determine the veracity of suspects or witnesses, and to monitor criminal offenders on probation. Luke and his parents would have welcomed the opportunity for a polygraph asking questions directly related to his niece, but their attorney said polygraph results are inadmissible in Washington court, and he advised against asking Luke specific questions.

• The attorney outlined two choices to Luke and his parents.

Luke could plead not guilty but face the possibility of 40 weeks placement in a juvenile institution if found guilty of the charges.

If he were to plead guilty, his case would be reduced to one charge of "child molestation of the first degree," with probation for a maximum of two years. With that, he would agree to undergo juvenile sex offender treatment, which included a number of stipulations. Among them: complete a bi-weekly counseling program, comply with curfew restrictions approved by the probation officer, have no unsupervised internet access, have no contact with the niece, have no contact with any child born after Feb. 2, 1998, not possess or consume alcohol or any controlled substance except by doctor's prescription, register as a sex offender and write a letter of apology to the niece.

Luke's parents believed in his innocence. There were several issues, however.

The attorney led them to believe chances were strong that, if Luke fought the charges, he would be judged guilty by the court. The attorney expressed that view that the court system favors the testimony of the victim.

The only way to get into the two-year probationary program was with a guilty plea. If Luke contested the charges, the Heimlichs were led to believe the logical conclusion would be adjudication.

That would mean Luke's incarceration at a juvenile facility for nearly a year, causing him to miss a year of school and a season of baseball. His parents also were concerned that if Luke were found guilty, Josh might lose custody of his children to his ex-wife and that Mark and Meridee would lose the opportunity to be with their granddaughter.

Collectively, Luke and his parents decided a guilty plea was the best route. He could stay at home, attend school and lead a somewhat normal life. If he followed all the rules through the five-year period, his records would be sealed. The parents felt that path would be the quickest toward healing and recovery of the family. They were were concerned that, if Luke contested the charges, it would require aggressive questioning to break down their granddaughter's story. They weren't comfortable with putting her through that.

On Aug. 27, 2012, Luke pleaded guilty to the single charge.

• After his initial meeting with Luke and his parents prior to the court plea, his court-appointed therapist wrote a report that included the following:

"He has a very loving and supportive family who are very involved in their church. Luke has been involved in organized sports since a very early age and has many friends, who are positive influences in his life. There is no history of behavioral or emotional problems."

Also: "Luke adamantly denies all allegations against him, but has accepted a plea agreement from the prosecutor to amend his two counts of child molestation in the first degree to just one count. In the past, treatment providers have shown some reluctance to treat someone who denies guilt of the committing offense. However, research into juvenile sexual recidivism has shown that categorical denial by someone who has no history of delinquency is NOT a contributing risk factor for sexual recidivism … furthermore, there is at least one study that revealed those adolescents who denied their offenses were significantly LESS likely to reoffend sexually. … Luke appears to be at low risk for sexual recidivism in both the long term and the short term."

Also: "Luke has accepted a plea agreement and will be entering a guilty plea. Therefore risk assessment is conducted with the assumption of guilt even though the client does not actually admit to the allegations."

The therapist also wrote that Luke "will need assistance coping with the short- and long-term consequences to himself and to his family for being labeled and having to register as a sexual offender.
 

BELdog

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Aug 23, 2012
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First I had seen that article. Read a couple pieces with the little girl's testimony, but hadn't seen the part about the custody battle. Didn't see links to the news articles in the original post. An ugly custody battle changes things for sure.
 

BKCBully

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Jul 19, 2013
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Except you kinda still did, which shows you have no objection to making the joke. You just don't want to be perceived as the kind of guy who would make that joke.

True. But I really just wanted to make fun the guys name. Not the sensitive part of the matter.
 

deadheaddawg

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Sep 3, 2012
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First I had seen that article. Read a couple pieces with the little girl's testimony, but hadn't seen the part about the custody battle. Didn't see links to the news articles in the original post. An ugly custody battle changes things for sure.

A complicated case. Custody battle and the kid passing the lie detector test give me pause from immediately assuming guilt
 

patdog

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May 28, 2007
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Tough case for sure. No one knows what really happened other than him and the kid, and there's a very real chance the kid has been brainwashed by the vindictive ex-wife that she doesn't even really know herself. It happens a lot more often than anyone would like to admit. However, if I was falsely accused of that, I would never plead guilty, no matter what the attorney said. I'd fight it to the end, and if I was wrongfully convicted, I'd at least still have my integrity. Hard to plead guilty and then claim you're innocent.
 

LilSebastian

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Sep 13, 2012
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It’s a really sad story especially if his niece just made it up. I mean it says she was six, it would be hard for me to trust what comes out of a six year olds mouth. It has basically ruined his life on something a six year old said, pretty messed up either way

The average six year old lacks the vocabulary to describe a rape in the first place, much less the damage or moral implication of what happened to them, but here’s you assigning them the ability to fabricate one whole cloth.
 

LilSebastian

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Polygraph tests that meet a certain standard can be put into the record in Washington and the other party cannot challenge. In this case, since it didn’t specifically relate to the details of the event, there’s no reason to take too much from it.

Also, it reads like Josh filed the complaint with the police after discussing it with his ex. Imagine how convinced he must have been to risk his own custody in order to protect his daughter. Josh isn’t in this article and that’s important because I don’t think he wants anything to do with it. It reads like a PR piece to pin all this on a custody battle so the parents can keep the family together and their son can have his future.
 

LilSebastian

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Who’s to say the older brother didn’t have it out for Luke for any number of potential reasons (major family disagreement, etc) and big brother decided that was a great way to get back at him?

So you’re saying that Josh would risk custody and permanently scar his daughter in order to spite his brother?
 

BELdog

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Aug 23, 2012
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Tough case for sure. No one knows what really happened other than him and the kid, and there's a very real chance the kid has been brainwashed by the vindictive ex-wife that she doesn't even really know herself. It happens a lot more often than anyone would like to admit. However, if I was falsely accused of that, I would never plead guilty, no matter what the attorney said. I'd fight it to the end, and if I was wrongfully convicted, I'd at least still have my integrity. Hard to plead guilty and then claim you're innocent.

My thoughts exactly. I'm not pleading guilty to something I didn't do.
 

gymdawg.sixpack

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Aug 26, 2012
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I have a 5yr old that i could convince with a few stories that she witnessed anything i could imagine. Im not taking anyones side here. I am completely neutral but i do know that a child's mind can be fed info in a way they believe it actually happened.
 

catvet

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May 11, 2009
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This is a really messed up situation, but my question is, since they both were minors, why wasn't this kept sealed? Secondly, if you are a minor, do you have to register as a sex offender? I don't know the answer to either of these things.
 

Go Budaw

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So you’re saying that Josh would risk custody and permanently scar his daughter in order to spite his brother?

Saying he would? No. I didn’t. Made it pretty clear that it was just a devil’s advocate scenario and that I didn’t know facts of the case. My main point was there are circumstances where a small child could, hypothetically, go against their nature and be less than truthful about something if they were coerced into doing so by a parent or other influential adult. It was mainly a point to consider relating to BELdog’s post that “a six year old couldn’t just lie about something like that”. But again, NOT saying it went down that way at all.
 

mparkerfd20

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Aug 22, 2012
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It’s a really sad story especially if his niece just made it up. I mean it says she was six, it would be hard for me to trust what comes out of a six year olds mouth. It has basically ruined his life on something a six year old said, pretty messed up either way

Dude that is messed up. I'm replying to this crap only because a fat finger on a mobile accidentally gave you a thumbs up when trying to thumbs down. A six year old doesn't just randomly make up a detailed story about rape. I mean come on.
 

She Mate Me

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Dec 7, 2008
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Anyone who believes a young child can't be coerced into saying just about anything might want to familiarize themselves with this case if they aren't already aware of it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

I have no opinion other than if it happened, I am disgusted at Luke and heartbroken for the child and if it didn't I am sad for him and disgusted at whatever caused the false accusation. No way we'll ever know unless someone provides further info.
 

Philly Dawg

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At what age would you believe it if your daughter told you someone was touching her?
 

Philly Dawg

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If your 6 year old daughter told you she’d been touched by someone, what influential adult would you be looking to confront?
 

UpTheMiddlex3Punt

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And never underestimate how parents, especially ones who have less time with the kids, will use techniques like false abuse accusations to try to get back at the ex. Just from experience, a neighbor of mine was arrested for sexual abuse against his own kid (talking 6-7 year old kid) and even had a story published by a local news station. At first my wife and I were shocked, and even discussed it with a neighbor who also has a kid. Turns out that this neighbor (a divorced man) had discussed their divorces and stuff with the accused neighbor knew exactly what was going on and how the mother brought up allegations and convinced the kid to go along with them before. The guy knew this was coming, turned himself in, was out of jail within an hour, and had the charges dismissed two days later. Thankfully, the National Children's Advocacy Center is located here, and they are experts on how to interview children to really determine if abuse occurred.

The big mistake, on the part of Luke's family, was that Josh went to the police instead of the mother. If the mother had filed all this with the police, it's a lot easier to frame this as a "she's encouraging the kid to make stuff up" and never even have this go to court. Once Josh went to the police, that kind of defense evaporates, because you do not go to the police unless you think a crime has occurred. The purpose of the police and the justice system is not to reinforce innocence. If you want to build a case of your innocence, hire an investigator or attorney and preemptively build your case so if charges come you can shoot them down quickly.

Tl;dr: If someone is accusing you or a family member of a crime, call their bluff and make them go to the police
 

blacklistedbully

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Sep 8, 2008
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"Minnich was prohibited from asking any question directly related to Luke's niece"

This seems suspicious to me. Understand the lawyer offered a reason..but that reasoning would argue against any polygraph...not one that deliberately evades the central question...did he sexually abuse the young girl?

To me it looks much worse to have a polygraph that excludes any questions about the niece specifically.
 

deadheaddawg

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Sep 3, 2012
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Putting this case to the side....do people actually think 6 year old children can't be convinced by adults to make false claims.....they absolutely can. And have.

I have no idea if that's what happened here, but it's definitely a possibility.

Also pretty easy to see where a 15 year old my enter a guilty plea based completely off the advice of his attorney. Most of us will say we would never admit to something like this if we didn't do it....and most wouldn't as adults.

But a 15 year old kid is probably pretty likely to do what a lawyer recommends or what his parents want them to do.

Again, I have no idea what happened here, but it's silly to say a 6 year old couldn't make that up and it's also silly to say a 15 year old would never please guilty to a crime they didn't commit
 

bruiser.sixpack

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Aug 13, 2009
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I am sorry you had to go through that. I suspect very soon this thread will be locked.
I say that to say, too many times the serious of the charge becomes a rally cry by many to convict without a Grand Jury even taking up the case. You are emotionally connected because it actually happened to you. Again, I hate to hear that it actually happened to anyone, let alone a 6 or 7 year old, or 3 or 4 year old, or a 15 or 16 year old.

If he had gone to trial and been found innocent, would you feel the same way towards this young man?
 
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