Perhaps I'm forgetting, what evidence did the prosecution actually have that the lady never left the junkyard other than that was the last place she was seen and that her car was left there? Cell phones have GPS on them that can't be turned off precisely for tracking purposes in cases like this, it's completely separate from the GPS you can turn on and off for map and directions apps and what now. At least that's what I've been told, perhaps I was told wrong.
Making a Murderer
- Thread starter etowncatfan
- Start date
The one officer testimony that bothered me and I can't recall his name was the one that signed out of the muster sheet but not in. His time of entry originally was approx 2, later it was approx 6. That's a big difference of either daylight or dark.
More than likely he was trying to cover his *** for not signing in and being somewhere he wasn't supposed to be, but it definitely was inline with what the defense was arguing.
More than likely he was trying to cover his *** for not signing in and being somewhere he wasn't supposed to be, but it definitely was inline with what the defense was arguing.
I get that, but when Kachensky and O'Malley are talking about cutting your family from the gene pool, they are evil incarnate...tends to be a little worse than just general disdain for junkyard trash.
We know Steven burned cats, ran his cousin off the road and threatened her with a gun, multiple burglaries, served 18 years for rape...but what about the rest of his family? What kinds of things did they do? There have got to be stories.
People like you are are a big part of the problem. I would rather hang out with any of those Avery family members than you.
Take your weak *** troll attempt and go get pumped.
That was Lt Lenk. The detective that found the key and knew about the blood sample.
I don't know if cellphones in 2005 were equipped with GPS, but It could've been triangulated with cell towers.
Maybe the prosecution did bring this up and the producers of the show never mentioned it.
I can't imagine with how sharp Averys lawyers were that they didn't check into that, and if it would've benefitted Avery they would've brought it up.
The blood sample was definitely odd, but when would the police have been able to get a fresh sample from Avery to plant it?
The evidence room would've had the EDTA's or whatever it's called in it. We can say the FBI testing is inaccurate, but it still showed that it wasn't in the sample. So now we're saying the FBI is in on the fix?
I understand questioning the county, they screwed up the investigation, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it. Just means they're inept, and when I say I think he did it, it's just my opinion doesn't mean that a I think the jury should find him guilty. It's just my gut feeling
The blood sample of Avery's was still liquid, evidence seal's were broken, and the vial had been tampered with...now why would that be?
As for the FBI, that test isn't gospel. If it were positive, that would have been a good thing for the defense. But the fact they didn't find EDTA, doesn't mean it wasn't there or didn't come from the vial. That test did not have a high sensitivity. That's what the defense's lab witness argued.
As for the FBI, that test isn't gospel. If it were positive, that would have been a good thing for the defense. But the fact they didn't find EDTA, doesn't mean it wasn't there or didn't come from the vial. That test did not have a high sensitivity. That's what the defense's lab witness argued.
His damn brother was a sheriff wasn't he? Some law man. Then his brother in law was, too...the husband of the cousin.
...That whole "masturbating on my car" ordeal was odd, and I feel like he might have done that. He acted weird about it. He acted very differently when refuting the rape stuff....obviously that's a much bigger deal, but he was adamant af about not doing that. I also thought he wasn't as adamant about not killing Theresa. Maybe he was just mentally beat down and defeated, which it certainly sounded like from the phone convos, and even said as much.
Did you not see when they opened the "fingernail scraping" evidence and found the vial of blood? Avery was in jail for 18 years and even told someone during interrogation that they took all kinds of blood from him.
...That whole "masturbating on my car" ordeal was odd, and I feel like he might have done that. He acted weird about it. He acted very differently when refuting the rape stuff....obviously that's a much bigger deal, but he was adamant af about not doing that. I also thought he wasn't as adamant about not killing Theresa. Maybe he was just mentally beat down and defeated, which it certainly sounded like from the phone convos, and even said as much.
Did you not see when they opened the "fingernail scraping" evidence and found the vial of blood? Avery was in jail for 18 years and even told someone during interrogation that they took all kinds of blood from him.
Didn't the female expert say that not finding the EDTA didn't mean it wasn't there, just that they didn't detect it.
Also found it odd that the FBI agent said he thought the other blood spots found in the car were Averys even though he never checked it. How would he KNOW. I mean, you might think it was but unless you test it, you don't know. He seemed kinda arrogant there to me.
Also found it odd that the FBI agent said he thought the other blood spots found in the car were Averys even though he never checked it. How would he KNOW. I mean, you might think it was but unless you test it, you don't know. He seemed kinda arrogant there to me.
This is true.
The thing that got me, and what makes me think Avery didn't do it, where was the blood in the trailer or garage? Allegedly tied her up to the bed and did stuff to her there, finished her off in the garage, where was the blood? There are some things you can get rid of entirely by burning like bed sheets, for example. These people are truly not bright, my guess is the type that would consider graduating from high school a monumental achievement. You think they are going to be able to figure out how to get every little speck blood off the walls and out of the carpets and off anything else that it would have gotten on in the bedroom? You think they would have been able to clean up every speck of blood off all the junk in the garage and on the cement floor? With the types of violence Avery was accused of committing, that blood is going to be all over the freaking place, not like it's going to just pool up in one easy to contain spot. It's going to be on the walls, perhaps the ceiling depending on trajectories, the floors, the carpets, any object within several feet of it, etc. I can't even get this damn stain off one of my dress shirts, despite all my attempts at everything on the internet I can find and after taking it to professionals, but you're telling me these unintelligent hillbillies managed to figure out how to get blood stains out of concrete?
We're not talking Dexter Morgan here who knows how to completely cover his crime scene to prevent any blood from being left behind. I wouldn't count on these folks being able to eat a crumbly biscuit form Hardee's without leaving evidence behind, much less leaving no blood evidence behind from abusing/assaulting someone in a bedroom then killing them in a garage.
There were cops searching every inch of that junkyard for days and weeks when they first discovered the SUV there that couldn't find the magic bullet or the magic key. They had to be looking over every inch of that garage and trailer and moving as much stuff as safely possible trying to find something. Cops aren't exactly going to show a great amount of care for someone's possessions in this type of scenario. How is it that they couldn't find the key when it was in plain sight on the floor in the bedroom. How is it that they couldn't find a bullet underneath some canister or whatever it was underneath? These objects weren't even hidden whatsoever. You telling me, what I assume was at least 10 cops, couldn't find all of this in the first week on the scene, but 2 or 3 cops that come in a few months later find it practically right away?
How did this citizens search team manage to find the car practically right off the bat once they got to the junkyard? When I lose my TV remote in my bedroom it can take longer to find it than it took them to find the SUV on a 40+ acre complex. Why were the two that were sent to the junkyard the only ones given a camera? They obviously knew that's where the car was going to be, why else would you give them a camera but never give a camera to anyone else? Surely if you think there is a chance the car could be anywhere that you would have multiple cameras at the ready for every group to have a camera. This is 2005, digital cameras and camera phones weren't exactly uncommon. And even if an adult didn't have a digital camera by then, which is certainly within the realm of possibility, most would at least have a film camera. They could even have bought the throwaway film cameras from a drug store. You can even see Steven's mother with what looks like a camera phone in episode 8. There's no excuse for every group being without a camera of some variety. they knew that car was there and that's why the group that went to the junkyard got the camera. The whole group was just looking elsewhere prior to that because it would have been just too darn convenient for them to show up at the junkyard and find the car within 10 minutes of starting the first search.
And lastly, the DNA test they ran that the prosecution claims put her in the garage was contaminated, never should have been admissible to begin with as it was contaminated and they broke protocol to declare the DNA matched her profile. That was the ONLY evidence the prosecution had putting her in the garage. I believe the lady doing the DNA testing even admitted that it didn't put her in the garage. She also none of the other evidence they had put her in the garage, but she wouldn't admit that they had no evidence putting her in the garage. You can't have it both ways, either none of it put her in there are your two separate sentences indicated, or they had some putting it in there as her one sentence indicated.
The lack of blood in itself would have been enough for me to find him not guilty, wouldn't have been enough for me to say with 100% certainty he didn't do it as he could have killed her elsewhere and transported her to the junkyard, but since the prosecution insisted she was killed in the garage, no blood there means Avery didn't kill her there. If Avery didn't kill her there then he isn't guilty of killing her as the prosecution didn't seemingly have any other evidence of her being killed anywhere else.
IIRC the FBI agent admitted to only testing 3 out of 6 samples. Odd!
Bill, the problem with it is we are innocent until proven guilty. How in the world did they prove him guilty? Planted evidence be damned, it's at least reason for doubt. The judge really screwed Avery by not letting them discuss the past charge of the lawsuit in which the key people finding evidence were a part.
Yep! No motive for them to help bury this poor idiot.
Bill, the problem with it is we are innocent until proven guilty. How in the world did they prove him guilty? Planted evidence be damned, it's at least reason for doubt. The judge really screwed Avery by not letting them discuss the past charge of the lawsuit in which the key people finding evidence were a part.
Yep! No motive for them to help bury this poor idiot.
Yeah, that's what I was saying about the blood spots. He checked 3 of 6 but claimed he knew all 6 were Averys'.
I did, but that blood had the preserving agent in it. His blood sample from the RAV 4 didnt
Again, according to the female chemist, not detecting the preserving agent does not mean it wasn't there, just that they didn't detect it.
The defense had an expert that refuted that claim and said it's likely and obvious that at least some of the remains had been moved.
If you watched that and thought, this dude is 100% innocent, I don't know what to tell you. Last person to see her, her remains, car, keys were all found on his property, his dna found in the car with her dna. Doesn't mean he got a fair trail, which he absolutely didn't.
Still bugs me about her brother and ex-boyfriend "guessing" he login id and password. No red flags there?
I wrote that it was my opinion he did it, but I also don't think the state proved him guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
Well where did the police get untainted blood from Avery? I'm assuming they hadn't gotten samples from him other than the 1985.
So now you're saying the FBI is also in on framing him, cmon.
I get what you're saying, but would you think the same if it was detected in the sample?
It was obviously a blow to the defense, they then did their job and blasted the test.
I think you are missing the point. They had blood on him. Just because the blood in the van didn't test positive for EDTA doesn't mean it didn't come from the vial.
If the blood in the van had tested positive for EDTA, it would have been a huge boost to the defense.
I agree Anthony, I have no doubt the police got a hard on when this broke. I believe they completely screwed up the investigation. I believe with what we were shown there was enough reasonable doubt for a not guilty verdict
I also believe as a guy sitting at home that my gut tells me he did it, or someone on the property did.
If any of us have a dead woman found behind our house, her vehicle on our property, we were the last ones to see her, our dna in her car, and her phone activity stopped when she arrived at our residence....we're gonna be the prime suspect as well.
I'm not missing the point, if you test blood from the vial and it comes back positive and then test blood from the crime scene and it comes back negative what would your conclusion be?
Yep, and why did thee feel the need to delete stuff on there as well? Only reason to ever delete calls/texts/voicemails is if you filled up your storage space, to hide/cover up something, or someone was being a jerk to you.
http://archive.postcrescent.com/article/99999999/APC0101/303070033/Defense-chemist-spar-over-tests
Here's an interesting article about the blood test The article is during the trial the day after the FBI testimony.
Here's an interesting article about the blood test The article is during the trial the day after the FBI testimony.
If you're going to move charred partial remains of a person you murdered and burned in a rock quarry, (tell me if this makes sense) you're gonna snag a couple chunks and sprinkle them 10' from your doorstep?
WTF? This too, is a joke.
WTF? This too, is a joke.
It's fairly reliable, they stopped using it after the OJ case, probably because his defense presented the way in how to defeat it's use in court.
So someone came in there, killed her, snuck back in and burned her in the quarry. Then snuck right behind his house and put them in his fire pit, that's more logical? Did Avery, any of them come off as having much sense?
So Bill is obviously Ken Katz, eh?
Hey Ken, stop sexting domestic abuse clients, it's f*cking creepy.
Hey Ken, stop sexting domestic abuse clients, it's f*cking creepy.
Haha, I'm just playing devils advocate. I don't think he should've been found guilty with what we saw. But I also understand we didn't see everything.
Averys making sense - Well yes. The old man's fish raising tanks business was :fire::fire::fire:.
Once the state controlled the property, anything is possible.
If your intent is to frame someone, then it's more plausible to:
murder girl off property
Take body in her car to quarry
Dump car off in junkyard lot (many ways in)
Chop up and burn said girl in quarry
At your leisure, when Avery is already locked up, scoop some chunks and sprinkle the remains in Steve's fire pit.
First 4 steps can be done well away from Avery's house.
If you're a cop who repeatedly violates restraining orders/protocol for the investigation, a brown paper bag with some BBQ bones in it aren't too much of a stretch to sprinkle atop.
This too was mentioned... the investigators poorly documented the remains in the fire pit.
One thing I didn't understand was how Brendan came to come over to Avery's in the first place. There was some suggestion that he was delivering a letter and walked in, but Brendan seemed to indicate Avery called him to come over. If the latter is true, why would Avery call anyone over while committing a murder? To create an extra witness? Was it ever clearly explained why he was supposedly over there?
The other part I thought was kind of disheartening was the suggestion by the prosecution that a frame job couldn't have happened because, hey, these are good police officers and decent men. Um, we know that for sure? And let's say they were good men - good men can't be corrupted when faced with potentially losing everything they own via the lawsuit?
The other part I thought was kind of disheartening was the suggestion by the prosecution that a frame job couldn't have happened because, hey, these are good police officers and decent men. Um, we know that for sure? And let's say they were good men - good men can't be corrupted when faced with potentially losing everything they own via the lawsuit?
Good, decent men don't run a hatchet job case on someone in the first place like they did with Avery in the 80s
Let's be honest, Kentucky football is the Avery family of the SEC.