Malzahn to Vandy!
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ckDOG said:
<p style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="MsoNormal">ckDOG,
No, I am not ok with Cecil meddling with his son's recruitment and soliciting money.What he did has caused the last month and a half to be a constantbarrage of criticism and skepticism overCam and AuburnUniversity. I am not at all a Cecil Newton fan, and I still want to know exactly what he did and how this whole thing went down. However, I don't think Cam should suffer for something he didn't do or know about, and I don't think Auburn should sufferbecause they played no role whatsoever in this whole fiasco.Apparently theNCAA and the SEC agree with this. If Cam were to be ruled ineligible, it would setup a horrible and dangerous precedent where someone can claim without any real proof to represent a student athlete, solicit money, and immediately have the playerruled ineligible.
For instance,I could call up the University of Alabama, claim to represent Trent Richardson, and say thatif they want him to continue to playfor them, I will need$100K. Can you say sabotage? Before you say "thatisn't the same thing..." think about it, because it really is. The NCAA bylaws don't say that the person representing the athlete must be family, it simply says"the athlete or a person representing the athlete." The question then becomes whatis thequalification for "representing"the athlete.If theathlete didn't know about it, then how could the person making the solicitation truly represent them?Obviously, this is one of the reasons the NCAA didn't slam Cam for this, because there was no proof that Cecil was "representing" Camwhen he solicited the money.
To say "Cam had tohave known what hisdad was doing" I think doesn't take intoaccount the reality of the nature of Cam and his father's relationship. Keep in mind, Cecil is a pastor, and has probably been preaching to Cam his entire life to do the right thing and to be a good man, etc. Cam went to Florida, and while outside of his father's reach got into a lot of trouble. Cecil was instrumental in pulling him out of Florida and sending him to Blinn, where he would be away from the bright lights and could focus on football, and maturing into the man he hoped he would become. Cam probably had 100% respect for his father at this point and wanted to liveup to his lofty expectations. He saw his father as a role model, and didn't want to disappoint him again.WhenCecil decided todo some shady stuff, do you really think he wanted Cam to know about it? If you were a pastor, would you really want your son torealize that you are a <span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">hypocrite</span> and a cheat? Of course not...I am convinced Cecil hid this from Cam because he didn't want to think anyless of him. He didn't want himto know what he wasdoing andquestion everything he ever taught him about doing the right thing.
Anyway, I got a little off track here with some of my assumptions about what happened, but to answer your question, what Cecil did was wrong, the NCAA says there is no proof that Cam was aware, to rule any different than what the NCAA has ruled would be much more dangerous, and finally, I think everyone else who is not an Auburn fan probably would love to see Cam and Auburn crucified. Everyone hates the guy on top...its just competitive nature when it comes to sports.</p>
Why don't periods and commas used for pauses and changes in thought progression suffice for guys like us anymore?....?....Oh well....Anyways, I digress...
On to your flaws....to act like you don't know what's coming is.... well.... ludicrous (as in the speed...not the rapper)....Secondly... all of your points are moot b/c Croom led his 2007 band of Merry Pranksters into "the plains" for a victory ....Now that's what I call "shitting the bed"....Not to mention almost being beaten the following year by our Def. Coordinator alone, despite Croom....Also... if there was no Cam Newton, we beat AU 10 times out of 10 at home this year...fact...without Cam Newton, AU would be rivaling TSUN (first time i've ever typed that) for bottom of the SECW barrel...which is another fact...That said.... I wish we had been able to pony up the 200-Gs for his services....He even preferred MSU to AU (go figure?) but the "money was too much"...remember?....but I would, like AU, gladly take a probation and season and heisman forfeits in exchange for NC any day of the week...Lastly and most importantly...your wit and insults are weak, tired, and embarrassing...
Thanks for trolling...may your rabbit trails be....ummm...plentiful!1!!1!
P.S. ....who would have been your QB this year if you hadn't used TSUN's playbook and pulled a QB out of your ***?...?
On to your flaws....to act like you don't know what's coming is.... well.... ludicrous (as in the speed...not the rapper)....Secondly... all of your points are moot b/c Croom led his 2007 band of Merry Pranksters into "the plains" for a victory ....Now that's what I call "shitting the bed"....Not to mention almost being beaten the following year by our Def. Coordinator alone, despite Croom....Also... if there was no Cam Newton, we beat AU 10 times out of 10 at home this year...fact...without Cam Newton, AU would be rivaling TSUN (first time i've ever typed that) for bottom of the SECW barrel...which is another fact...That said.... I wish we had been able to pony up the 200-Gs for his services....He even preferred MSU to AU (go figure?) but the "money was too much"...remember?....but I would, like AU, gladly take a probation and season and heisman forfeits in exchange for NC any day of the week...Lastly and most importantly...your wit and insults are weak, tired, and embarrassing...
Thanks for trolling...may your rabbit trails be....ummm...plentiful!1!!1!
P.S. ....who would have been your QB this year if you hadn't used TSUN's playbook and pulled a QB out of your ***?...?
How will Malzhan do without Cam Newton? Last year against KENTUCKY, Auburn managed one - count 'em one - offensive touchdown. Against Kentucky.wareagle24 said:
Let that sink in for a minute.
It's getting thick in here! I am going to have to get back to work soon, so I'llbite on this one, then I need to earn my paycheck.KennyPowers2 said:
Q: What do you think about the interview with Bowden where he spilt the beans on Auburn and Lowder??? That was not too many years ago, do you honestly believe it really has changed? I know that proof is a bit lacking right now but you must have a small feeling in your gut that tells you "oh my I hope we don't get caught".
A: All of this was before I really became a true Auburn fan...didn't care much about football until after high school. However, to answer your question it makes me sick and I'm glad it happened before I was truly a fan. I really do hope that the control the boosters had over the program has changed, but I don't have inside information so I don't know for sure. I would hope that they learned their lesson from past probations and realize how stupid it is to do what they did again. I assume that Auburn is no different from any other school where powerful boosters throw their weight around, and the university has to balance the need for money versus keeping these guys in check. I believe Chizik is a man of integrity and if he knew of any inpropriety he wouldn't stand for it. He comes from a military background, and has values that I just don't see him sacrificing or compromisng on. I feel a whole lot better about Chizik in this regard than I did Tubberville.
Q: Do you really think Cam just all the sudden out of nowhere decided he wanted to go to Auburn? I know that most people at auburn and alabama think Starkville is just horrible and state is little ole nothing, but sometimes on occasion people like it here and wouldn't trade it for anything.
A. No, I don't think he decided out of nowhere. I think Cam wanted to go to Miss State because of his relationship withthe Mullens,but Cecilmade the decision for him. This is one of those things that I mentioned earlier, I don't know how it all went down, and I hope it comes out eventually so we have some closure. Iimagine a few possibilities. 1)Cecil asked for money and Statedidn't giveit to himso he said "screw you guys,you didn'tpay me, so you get no Cam."2) Cecil solicited the money, but then realized what a big mistake he made and thought it best todistance himself from all of that and determined it was best to go somewhere else. 3) Cecil never really wanted Cam to go to Starkville, thought Auburn was a better choice for Cam's career with a strong OC and a very senior laden offensive line, and a bigger SEC stage. Decided if Cam really wanted to go to Miss State, he would at least make it worth his (Cecil's) while and get some money out of the deal. ** In the end, I'm sure Cecil told Cam that he was going to Auburn because it was in his best interest, and that he had a better chance of being a star there and getting to the NFL, etc.
Q: you think its just a coincidence that Auburn has the most amazing recruiting class after an 8-5 season with a mediocre head coach with nothing to offer recruits?
A: No, I don't think it is a coincidence, and I disagree with your assertion that Auburn has nothing to offer. I think Chizik hired a great staff of people who are known to be great recruiters. Trooper Taylor and Curtis Looper were already excellent recruiters at OK State, and Gus Malzahn's offense led the nation in total offense 2 years in a row at Tulsa. Not to mention Chizik is a very good recruiter himself...he actually brought in some real talent to Iowa State before he left. Auburn and this staff worked their tails off recruiting...they busted it, traveling all the time. Also, they did some new and exciting recruiting tactics like "tiger prowl" (limos heading to schools to drive around big name recruits, etc) and "big cat weekend" (a big production where they got as many of the top prospects as possible to come visit all together). Now...since "tiger prowl" happened, the SEC or the NCAAinstituted a new rule where they can't do that anymore, but it was legal at the time. So no, I am not surprised at all at the recruiting class. Keep in mind, they missed ALOT of bigtime players...but the key is they went after a TON and got what they needed.
Ok, I've enjoyed the discussion. Maybe I'll check back around lunch when I get a free moment to see where this discussion has lead.
So the NCAA is okay with the precedent set where a parent can solicit cash for the services for their child to avoid a situation where an unrelated party tries to sabotage a student athlete by claiming to represent them? How sweet of them? That's a warped view of right and wrong. Cut the "Cecil wasn't representing Cam" crap. That's a lawyered up ****** excuse and I'd be ashamed of myself if I ever tried to use that as rationale in trying to convince myself that this situation is "okay".
Relationships should be used as ultimate factor for whether or not a person should be deemed a "representing the athlete". If a father doesn't meet whatever criteria you want to establish, then we should just go ahead and abolish the NCAA and their interpretation of amateur athletics because college football will becoming nothing less than a black market for *** hole parents.
Fear of sabotage? Please. Sabotage can be present now or in any system going forward regardless of whatever precedent you say the NCAA is avoiding. An opposite view point would not "okay" sabotage because there was no sabotage involved here. It was Cam's father - not some jealous Alabama fan. If an unassociated party claims to be representing an amateur athlete in an effort to sabotage their amateur status whether it be 6 months ago or 10 years in the future, that's at least libel and/or slander - among some other things I'm sure. YOU DON'T NEED TO SET PRECEDENT TO AVOID THAT SITUATION - PRECEDENT IS ALREADY THERE.
wareagle28mg has to be cam's brother. I have never seen someone defend someone so strongly. If he thinks that cam did not know what his dad was doing he is smoking some good ****.Is dad told him where he was going to school and told him how much they were paying him. Time will tell and auburn will pay!!!!!!!!
ckDOG, I agree with you, precedent is already there. The NCAA has consistently prosecutedcases where athletes or athlete's families received illegal benefits...and they have consistentlynot prosecutedcases where benefits were not received by athletes or athlete's families.ckDOG said:
My argument was a hypothetical just like yours was, just the flip side of the issue. Obviously the NCAA doesn't want families running around soliciting cash for their son or daughter...and there is likely to be some new legislation that attempts to deal with that scenario. However,as a well respectedlawyer with 25 years of NCAA experience, Don Jackson, has said-"kidsand family members unknowingly ask forimpermissable benefits everyday." I'm summarizing his statements here...but he said in his 25 years he didn't know of a single instance where the NCAAprosecuted a case where no benefitsactually exchanged hands.
Finally, to argue your point. What if you guys and Auburn were bothrecruiting a star running back named Speedywho has an astranged father who leftthe family when Speedy was 2 years old. Suddenly, Speedy is a hot commodity, and Speedy's dad sees this as an opportunity to make a buck. He decides to solicitAuburn for $100K for Speedy's signature. Speedy knows nothing of any of this, and eventually decides to sign with Miss State. Auburn decides to report Speedy's father's solicitation AFTER Speedy signs with Miss State.
Based on your argument, Speedy should be rulled ineligible, and shouldn't be allowed to play football for you guys. Obviously, the "relationship" as you stated is the deciding factor...and this is Speedy's dad we are talking about. Doesn't matter if he knew anything or not, doesn't matter that Speedy did nothing wrong, or that Miss State did nothing wrong. The fact is that Speedy's dad solicited Auburn...so you guys are screwed! Come on now ckDOG, that makes absolutely no sense...and that is why the NCAA doesn't agree with you...and why Cam Newton is eligible to play.
So, you are saying ifthe roles were reversed and Cam had chossen Miss St over AU, you would not be defending him? I hope you would say you would.
Haha, if I were Cam's brother then I shouldbe gettingtickets to go to games instead of having to pay for them. Also, I would get him toautograph my football!Hidog78 said:
Apparently I have too much lawyer blood in me...and I enjoy a good argument/discussion. I'll get bored with it after a while and go away. Then you guys can talk about how Cam is guilty without any proof, howAuburn is headed for the "death penalty" and how Gus Malzahn took the Vanderbelt head coaching job to get away from the hammer dropping...wait...
Try to just validate your argument based on some **** Don Jackson said did you??? What a joke that 17er is and so are you.
It's well documented, you f'n asshat, that Byrne went to Slive in JANUARY and reported preacher's pimp offer. That's BEFORE that piece of **** signed with your illustrious junior college disguised as an institution of higher learning. Get the f@ck out of here with your two bit illogic.
Hahaha...whodoesn't know what they are talking about here? Cam came from Junior College, and was able to sign in December so that his scholarship countedtowards the 2009year. Cam signed his letter of intent on December 31st and enrolled in Auburn on January. Seriously Shmuley?Do you feel like an idiot now? Wow...Shmuley said:
and explains a lot.
There is nothing either side can say in this argument to make the other side change their opinion. The funny part is you are over here in the first place getting State fan's opinion's on your OC and lying, upside down eared QB and his piece of garbage father. Why don't you just take a hike, douchebag. You won't change our mind and we won't change yours. Tell your dad he is the most overrated coach in the history of mankind, and he needs to thnk Malzahn everyday for staying, and not exposing how awful he really is.
There is nothing either side can say in this argument to make the other side change their opinion. The funny part is you are over here in the first place getting State fan's opinion's on your OC and lying, upside down eared QB and his piece of garbage father. Why don't you just take a hike, douchebag. You won't change our mind and we won't change yours. Tell your dad he is the most overrated coach in the history of mankind, and he needs to thnk Malzahn everyday for staying, and not exposing how awful he really is.
Typically, I agree we should not have come over here. On the other hand should your guys have come over to our board after all the Cam allegations broke?
First, the Cam story is the biggest story in the history of college football, and he goes to Auburn. Makes sence to see what Auburn fans are saying. You jumped in a thread where the title was about Malzahn to Vandy. Seems like you would be on the Vandy board. I'm sure there were several douchbag State fans that came over there and said ridiculous ****. Every school has that league of fans, but guess what, YOU'RE THAT AUBURN FAN!</p>
"ckDOG, I agree with you, precedent is already there. The NCAA has consistently prosecutedcases where athletes or athlete's families received illegal benefits...and they have consistentlynot prosecutedcases where benefits were not received by athletes or athlete's families."
whether that's true or not, the NCAA has ALSO set the precedent where lying to the NCAA is automatic suspension. player or family. Surely you're not suggesting Cecil admitted to all of this when he was asked?
Further, the NCAA has ALWAYS operated on a 'tough ****' principle. So a player may be screwed over by his dad? Tough ****. They didn't care about the Olympic snowboarder who wanted to play college football. They didn't care that Renardo Sidney was in 9th grade when he got a free car ride.Let that one sink in: you're talking to a school who's top basketball recruit ever got a 1 AND 1/3 year suspension for a car ride in 9th grade. If you can't admit that the the two decisions are incompatible, then you are a hopeless homer.
Anyone with half a brain can see that this decision is wholly against existing NCAA precedent. we State fans can tell you how this will go: if the NCAA can't hammer you over Cam, they will invent another reason. they are letting you skate for now to avoid the embarrasment of having to suspend football's top player without hard evidence late in the season, but make no mistake, they WILL hammer you for this, with or without hard evidence. it's what they do. our last two investigations were over charges later proven to be false, yet the NCAA just kept digging till they found something trivial, then leveled penalties way in excess. that's the NCAA playbook, and it's what they will do to you. the more you embarrass them, the heavier the penalty, and i don't see how you escape the death penalty if you embarrass them by winning the NC.
whether that's true or not, the NCAA has ALSO set the precedent where lying to the NCAA is automatic suspension. player or family. Surely you're not suggesting Cecil admitted to all of this when he was asked?
Further, the NCAA has ALWAYS operated on a 'tough ****' principle. So a player may be screwed over by his dad? Tough ****. They didn't care about the Olympic snowboarder who wanted to play college football. They didn't care that Renardo Sidney was in 9th grade when he got a free car ride.Let that one sink in: you're talking to a school who's top basketball recruit ever got a 1 AND 1/3 year suspension for a car ride in 9th grade. If you can't admit that the the two decisions are incompatible, then you are a hopeless homer.
Anyone with half a brain can see that this decision is wholly against existing NCAA precedent. we State fans can tell you how this will go: if the NCAA can't hammer you over Cam, they will invent another reason. they are letting you skate for now to avoid the embarrasment of having to suspend football's top player without hard evidence late in the season, but make no mistake, they WILL hammer you for this, with or without hard evidence. it's what they do. our last two investigations were over charges later proven to be false, yet the NCAA just kept digging till they found something trivial, then leveled penalties way in excess. that's the NCAA playbook, and it's what they will do to you. the more you embarrass them, the heavier the penalty, and i don't see how you escape the death penalty if you embarrass them by winning the NC.
To address your scenario, in absolutely no way would I want Speedy to be ruled ineligible. And in now way is that example relevant to what I just discussed. Cecil Newton is not Cam's estranged father. Cecil Newton is Cam's overbearing father that made his college decision for him - fact.
It would be easy to prove that a father with no contact with a son for 20 years was not, in fact, a father figure.
ONE KennyPowers2 and second of all I went over there reading and I absolutely did NOT start any **** until I started reading all the **** they were saying about MSU, Starkville, Mississippi, John Bond,etc. So before you start claiming I'm an idiot you should have read what I was reading over there. %!%% auburn and their fans. And %!%% you if you think I'm an idiot for going to their board. There should have been more than me over there any damn way. These cocksuckers started this **** with their blaming all of this on MSU and trashing our university on their board. %!%% political correct ********!!!
KennyPowers2 said:
Dude, you weren't the only one over there. I'm not going to name names, because honestly it does not matter who it was. Does this thread not warrent us to weigh in on the discussion? After all it is about us, and is not based in fact.
rests on the ability of a computer thieving plagiarist fraud to keep his story straight and his ample dick sucking mouth shut. It has to suck having to run around various boards defending the indefensible. It must suck knowing your program won't even get a couple of years of media dick sucking about being the best college team of all time, ala USCw 2004. No, instead, AU 2010 is simply already known as 04 USCw in advance. Everyone with credibility knows you cheated. Nobody with credibility will give you credit for ****. Another asterisk.
Hope it was worth it. Now go twirl your trooper napkin and throw it up in that f'n tree.
Hope it was worth it. Now go twirl your trooper napkin and throw it up in that f'n tree.
For you. I agree that your input is warranted in this thread but not for the same reasons you do. I find it rather amusing to watch the Pack rip you 17ers a new one.
Ok, I tried to come over here and have a decent discussion with some of you. Guess that is asking too much. Some of you really need to move on with your life. This Cam and AU fascination you have is unhealthy. There is more to be said, but I will leave it at that. I have wasted enough time here.
Actually...yes I am suggesting that. Our most respected beat writer Phillip Marshall, with Auburn Undercover, a very fair and reliable reporter who doesn't actually report anything until he can confirm it, hasreported that when the NCAA met with Cecil Newton, Jackie Newton, and Cam Newton...that Cecil admitted to his involvement in soliciting money from Miss State, but that neither Cam nor Jackie knew about it. The Newtons cooperated fully with the NCAA and that is probably one of the reasons Cam was immediately reinstated after Auburn ruled him ineligible before the SEC Championship.
Anyway, it has been fun debating with you guys...well...some of you who pose actual questions and have reasonable opinions versus those who just try to find out how many explatives they can fit into a sentence. We are all biased...all of us. However, at least as of today, there are no known facts that would support the allegation that Cam or Auburn did anything wrong and the NCAA and the SEC have said as much. I am "an innocent until proven guilty" guy...so until the facts prove that Cam or Auburn did something wrong, then I see no reason to think any less of him or Auburn. Obviously you guys disagree...such is life.
To those civil Dawg fans here, best wishes for an SEC caliber whipping of Michigan. For the rest of you, best wishes in life...you are going to need it.
Lying to Auburn investigators/administrators would be treated the same as lying to the NCAA. Surely Auburn asked about it before the NCAA did, if they didn't it would be lack of institutional control. Yet Auburn did not rule Cam ineligible until the NCAA declared an infraction on Cecil. So clearly Cecil didn't admit it to Auburn, or else Auburn would be on the hook for not immediatley ruling Cam ineligible.
And you are forgetting that Cecil suddenly came up with the money to renovate his church right after Cam signed with Auburn. That's not a smoking gun, but it's far more than the NCAA's burden of proof in the past.
And you are forgetting that Cecil suddenly came up with the money to renovate his church right after Cam signed with Auburn. That's not a smoking gun, but it's far more than the NCAA's burden of proof in the past.
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