Marcello has a good article on Palmeiro...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
- Start date
...he shouldn't go because it's called the "Hall of Fame", not the "Hall of Good Statistics". Palmeiro padded his stats playing with mediocre to bad teams, so there was very little pressure on him to produce when needed. He only went to the postseason two years, and his batting average was .262. <div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"></div><div>
</div><div>Also, I seem to remember he turned down a trade to the Chicago Cubs in 2003, when the Rangers were out of contention and the Cubs were needing an extra bat for their postseason run. That showed that he didn't want any part of the pressure of possibly going to the World Series. </div>
</div><div>Also, I seem to remember he turned down a trade to the Chicago Cubs in 2003, when the Rangers were out of contention and the Cubs were needing an extra bat for their postseason run. That showed that he didn't want any part of the pressure of possibly going to the World Series. </div>
Baseball is not like basketball where being the best player on a bad team juices your stats. Obviously winning wasn't the only that mattered to him if he turned down a trade to a contender, but not sure wanting to stay with your current team (maybe because you have kids in school?) should be a diqualifier for the HOF. I was surprised he batted .262 though,and if his stats are more of result of sticking around and dh'ing for a much longer career than most players, seems like that would be something to take into account.
He could've been a "hired bat" for the Cubbies, and been back home with the kiddies by November. Will Clark would've taken that trade.<div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"></div>
Why in the world would teams pitch to him if he was the only good player on a bad team?
That is quite possibly some of the dumbest rhetoric I have ever heard</p>
That is quite possibly some of the dumbest rhetoric I have ever heard</p>
You people ever think there might have been some bad blood for the Cubs unloading him? You ever think that maybe he just did not want to go back to chicago? Hell, people refuse trades every day for different reasons. Very few people jump to a conclusion of "well, he obviously did not want to play under pressure in a World Series". Good lord, people
You go to a doctor to get your B-12 shot. You don't let Miguel Tejada give it to you.<div>
</div><div>But having already eclipsed the 500/3000 mark, and having emphatically testified as he did to Congress, I have a hard time believing he knowingly tooksteroids that spring. Too little to gain, too much to lose. He was playing out the stringen routetothe HOF.</div><div>
</div><div>http://bleacherreport.com/articles/122763-what-else-did-miguel-tejada-lie-about
</div>
</div><div>But having already eclipsed the 500/3000 mark, and having emphatically testified as he did to Congress, I have a hard time believing he knowingly tooksteroids that spring. Too little to gain, too much to lose. He was playing out the stringen routetothe HOF.</div><div>
</div><div>http://bleacherreport.com/articles/122763-what-else-did-miguel-tejada-lie-about
</div>
You play on a team that wins 70-80 games a year, you can have good stats if you're a team of mashers. The Boston Red Sox did this for years. <div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"></div><div>
</div><div>I still don't think he should be in the MLB hall. Like I said before, it's called the "Hall of Fame", not the "Hall of Good Stats". Also, I don't think the steroid thing should be held against players....or even the Black Sox. If they can let a racist ******* piece of **** like Ty Cobb in the Hall, they should also let guys like Shoeless Joe Jackson, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Pete Rose, and Barry Bonds in as well.</div>
</div><div>I still don't think he should be in the MLB hall. Like I said before, it's called the "Hall of Fame", not the "Hall of Good Stats". Also, I don't think the steroid thing should be held against players....or even the Black Sox. If they can let a racist ******* piece of **** like Ty Cobb in the Hall, they should also let guys like Shoeless Joe Jackson, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Pete Rose, and Barry Bonds in as well.</div>
He had the stats, no question, but his stats were compiled in an era that makes them less impressive. The baseball HOF is not all about stats, though. To be in the HOF you also have to have some intangibles. Heck, you have to be famous. A lot of baseball fans barely even knew who Palmeiro was before he testified to Congress. He was never even the best player on his own team, and certainly not the best First baseman of his era.
Palmeiro would not have gotten in on the first ballot even if he had never been connected to steroids. There is a chance he would have been voted in on his final try. But, Jose Canseco's allegations (many of which have turned out to be true) combined with Palmeiro failing a test, have totally destroyed his chances.
Palmeiro would not have gotten in on the first ballot even if he had never been connected to steroids. There is a chance he would have been voted in on his final try. But, Jose Canseco's allegations (many of which have turned out to be true) combined with Palmeiro failing a test, have totally destroyed his chances.
It is also not called the "Hall of Pressure Performance" or the "Hall of Making the Post Season" or "The Hall of Taking Trades" either. Using your logic the sole criteria is 'Fame'. So no matter what you did as a player, if you were 'famous', you're in.
All jocularity aside though. I understand what you are saying and I might even agree if a player had marginal HOF numbers. RP did not. He had career numbers for HR/hits that only Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, and Eddie Murray before him accomplished. Something only 4 players in the history of MLB were able to accomplish out of the thousands and thousands who played the game. I don't care how you got there that is special and it trumps all of these other added qualifiers in my book. I think it would in the eyes of HOF voters too only if.........
When they have had injuries that kept out the big bats around Ortiz, he got nothing to hit. Look at last year. If you only have one big power hitter like Raffy was for a lot of years in Texas and Baltimore, you get nothing to hit.
I 'hear' your argument but 500 homers and 3000 hits in less than 20 years is not chump change. You are clearly a Clark fan (not that there is anything against that. Hell, you are either a Beatles fan or you are an Elvis fan)...</p>
I 'hear' your argument but 500 homers and 3000 hits in less than 20 years is not chump change. You are clearly a Clark fan (not that there is anything against that. Hell, you are either a Beatles fan or you are an Elvis fan)...</p>
After the Jose Canseco allegations Palmeiro should have had the intelligence to know that he had NO room for error on ANYTHING he was putting in his body. His tainted B-12 excuse has NO credibility BECAUSE of the Canseco allegations saying he was taking steroids way back in the early to mid-90s. Canseco is a jerk and a snitch but NOBODY has shown him to be a liar. Palemeiro's stats would have eventually gotten him in the HOF but the steroid issue will keep him out.
for the rest of baseball history.
He's also top 20 all-time in RBI's and I believe he led the 1990's in RBIs.
Palmeiro was a pretty elite and consistent talent.
Without the steroid scandal, he's a sure-fire first ballot HOF'er.
He's also top 20 all-time in RBI's and I believe he led the 1990's in RBIs.
Palmeiro was a pretty elite and consistent talent.
Without the steroid scandal, he's a sure-fire first ballot HOF'er.
twittering and turned this up.
<font color="#0084b4">Buster Olney<span>?</span></font><span class="username js-action-profile-name"><font color="#66b5d2">@</font><font color="#0084b4">Buster_ESPN</font></span><p class="js-tweet-text"><font color="#66b5d2">@</font><font color="#0084b4">ryanallen33</font> Absolutely. Check how many players have 500 homers, 3000 hits. Not a lot.
<font color="#0084b4">Ryan Allen<span>?</span></font><span class="username js-action-profile-name"><font color="#66b5d2">@</font><font color="#0084b4">ryanallen33</font></span></p><p class="js-tweet-text"><font color="#66b5d2">@</font><font color="#0084b4">Buster_ESPN</font> Help me settle a debate. W/O steroid scandal, is Raffy Palmerio a first ballot HOF'er?
</p>
<font color="#0084b4">Buster Olney<span>?</span></font><span class="username js-action-profile-name"><font color="#66b5d2">@</font><font color="#0084b4">Buster_ESPN</font></span><p class="js-tweet-text"><font color="#66b5d2">@</font><font color="#0084b4">ryanallen33</font> Absolutely. Check how many players have 500 homers, 3000 hits. Not a lot.
<font color="#0084b4">Ryan Allen<span>?</span></font><span class="username js-action-profile-name"><font color="#66b5d2">@</font><font color="#0084b4">ryanallen33</font></span></p><p class="js-tweet-text"><font color="#66b5d2">@</font><font color="#0084b4">Buster_ESPN</font> Help me settle a debate. W/O steroid scandal, is Raffy Palmerio a first ballot HOF'er?
</p>
out of the HOF if you compare apples-to-apples.
Playing with a hangover affects every part of a player's game... not just how far he can hit a ball. Think how many more HR's MM would have hithe hadn't drank so much. In the end, which counts for more... a run scored via a HR or a run not scored because the batter was affected by alcohol,barbituates, marijuana?
Performance SUPRESSING substances probablyaffect more games than performance enhancing substances.
</p>
Playing with a hangover affects every part of a player's game... not just how far he can hit a ball. Think how many more HR's MM would have hithe hadn't drank so much. In the end, which counts for more... a run scored via a HR or a run not scored because the batter was affected by alcohol,barbituates, marijuana?
Performance SUPRESSING substances probablyaffect more games than performance enhancing substances.
</p>
His stats were good enough. I'm not arguing that at all. But he just wasn't famous enough. If you really think he would be a first ballot entry, then you really don't know anything about the baseball writers who vote for these things, and what an honor they consider first ballot entry. As his stats kept getting repeated year after year, he may eventually have gotten in....but there is no way he would have gotten in on first ballot.
the old gaurd baseball writers know Palmeiro well enough. He's in one of the most elite groups of players with the 500/3000 and it was a huge deal when he got into that club.
He's plenty famous enough.
He's plenty famous enough.