Dan Hurley is a great coach that needs more time.
How did that work out for Uconn????
Mark Pope
- Thread starter BBNinSCar
- Start date
How did that work out for Uconn????
Is this some sort of gotcha? Dan Hurley showed improvement year after year. Recruiting was better each season. He had no portal or NIL. And followed Kevin Ollie, who left Uconn on probation. I wasn't aware Hurley had a 22 million dollar NIL budget. And a portal featuing some of the best of college basketball's talent.
Here is another coach that was given time:
1st year: 8-9
2nd year: 15-6
3rd year: 12-12
4th year: 15-9
5th year: 16-11
He ended up getting FF in his 6th year and won 2 titles before retiring.
Dean Smith, had the portal and a 22 dollar million NIL budget? Interesting. Didn't know Pope took over UK under probation as well...
Well, since we're doing this....
Here's a coach that was given time
1st year 21-14
2nd year" 23-12
3rd year 19-14
4th year 19-13
5th year fired
Here is another coach that needed more time.
1st year: 17-13
2nd year: 10-17
3rd year: 11-17
This coach ended up winning 5 titles before he retired.
Anybody that thinks UK spent 22 million should have their head examined.
Lmfao, you keep naming coaches who had to rebuild programs from the dirt again. With no portal or NIL. Some of these programs were on probation. What is this supposed to prove?
It came from Pope and his camp, per KSR. It was supposed to be a flex of UK's might.
lmfao, you keep saying Pope isn't the guy after just one year and few games into his 2nd season and repeating that stupid 22 million dollar lie.
Pope might not be the guy, but less give him more than one year before we pass judgment.
I have my opinion that he is not. You have yours that he is. Hopefully I'm wrong and he takes us to the sweet 16 or better again this year. And we win the SEC.
I'm not sure that's really working out for Duke or UNC like we think. Hubert is constantly on a luke-warm seat and some thought he could get fired this year. And Scheyer may be winning, but he's also starting every season on 3rd base (Hand picks the best players, Duke gets all the calls), and he can never make it home. Most Duke fans still aren't sold on him. 50 different D1 coaches could take Duke to the Elite 8 with what they're given every year.
I want the best coach REGARDLESS of where he comes from. If he comes from UK, cool. But to try and limit our potential by continuing this "homegrown" trend seems like we will always be making things tougher for ourselves. I would hate to see a scenario where we turn down a better coach or player just because one guy is from KY.
For the record, I like Pope, and I'm not out on him yet. I think he does a lot of things really well. Time will tell if he can shore up his weaknesses. But if he doesn't work out here, I don't want fans to then start saying "We need to get ROndo here coaching". No. We need to get the right guy for the job regardless if he's a Kentucky guy or not. Hell, I'd take Duke's top assistant or someone like JJ Reddick if I knew they could win titles. Ok, maybe not THAT far.. lol.
Mike Woodson and IU just had this expirement. That's why I was so against the Pope hire. These former player hires almost never work. They can and have. But it's not a good track record. Just in the last few years. We've had Juwan Howard, Mike Woodson, Kenny Payne. Hubert outside of a Brady Manek flurry has been trash at UNC. Scheyer has worked out so far. But like you said, he's coaching a program that has it's tentacles everywhere. With lots of advantages. Even Bob Knight said it was "BS" that K coached team USA over and over.
I never said that he is the guy, I am just saying he needs more than 1 year and a few games to prove he is.
The recruiting is a major concern for me. So is the lack of prep for games. We come out dead in the 1st half, too often. I guess we'll see. From what I've seen. He's not the coach we need in this era. Uconn and Duke are chasing after us, that's why I'm move on happy. We don't have the luxury of taking flyers/training on the job. If we want to protect our brand. Hell, Scheyer busted out 2 29 win seasons his first 2 years. Followed that up with 35 wins and a final four.
Yep. And I think the other thing is. Players dont generally make good coaches. At least not in the way fans think "well he was great at the game, he must be able to coach it". Not true. A lot of times past players who try to coach, struggle when their players cant do the things they did as a player. Coaching a team requires a totally different set of skills and mentality than playing it.
There's also subconcious bias. Because that player was often on good teams. That won hardware. So we don't want these coaches to fail, because we think of them and remember good times. You also hear "they love the team/school". Yeah, if that won titles we could pluck 5-6 guys from eastern KY and go on UCLA level dynastys. It's a lower bowl/blue hair style of thinking.
I hate Duke as much as anyone. But, there is no denying that Scheyer is absolutely killing it there. In 3 completed seasons, he has an E8 and a F4 and an .820 winning %.
I do not buy into your claim that any coach could win there. Scheyer is going to win a title soon, maybe this season.
He's been great but it really is hard to judge because he started at third base. With the Nike connections and being K's protege and just Duke being Duke...I think a lot of guys would be doing great in his shoes. Plus I just flat out don't like the guy.
Idk, even the Duke friends i have dont love his coaching decisions. Last year a lot of his gameplan was simply "give it to Flagg and let him try and win it for us".. and that cost them against Kentucky and in the Final4. I think hes a solid coach, but again, he's starting every season on 3rd base. And the talent he had last year was even greater than we think... Kon Knipple is in the running for ROY as is Flagg. They might have literally had the two best talents in college basketball last year.. and thats something not even Cal ever had at his peak.
He has the most NIL to spend, plays in a crappy basketball conference, and they get several wins a year on bad calls. They play in an arena thats nearly unwinnable because they smartly put their student section lower and that affects the visiting team and the refs. I do think a lot of coaches could win with that. Imagine if Izzo had that type of talent.. or Chris Beard, Bruce Pearl, Pitino, Mark few.
Last edited:
Yes. Pure strawman. And you just cannot stop.
“And we were idiots for questioning him”
Strawman victim posting. So many tears!!!
Like can you imagine if Cal got to spend Duke type money, along with his strong recruiting pitch? With a proper student section and officiating bailing him out instead of hampering him? Hes got a good 7 or 8 losses at UK off the top of my head, that were directly because of a horrible call or bad officiating full game.. some of those were in the tournament (shabazz flop, Higgins, wisconsin shot clock).. and some were very important regular season games that affected seeding (fouling out 5 guys to lose to UNC in 2010, Humphries spike ball against TAM)...
Ill always dream of what his run would have been like if we got the help Duke did. Probably looking at 7 or 8 final 4s and 3 or 4 titles.. I really believe that
Ill always dream of what his run would have been like if we got the help Duke did. Probably looking at 7 or 8 final 4s and 3 or 4 titles.. I really believe that
“A bigger fan than anyone in BBN”. We need a coach capable of winning a title. UNC can have their alumni. They had Roy Williams waiting in the wings: Duke still has ratface helping recruit. Pope doesn’t have anything. He has no previous coaches at UK to lean on. He has trouble winning and that’s because he can’t bring his players. We are not a legacy school for bb. You can’t force that to happen. UK goes and finds the best coach available. That’s why we have 8 titles with 5 different coaches. Hall like the others at Duke and UNC had Rupp to go to. Again pope has no one and being a fan is not a qualification. And honestly to say pope “bigger fan blah blah blah”. That’s a slap in the face to all these lifetime UK fans to say that. BBN is what makes coaches.
He is a genuinely good guy who genuninely bleeds blue and loves this program like few others. I think that also why you've seen his demeanore a little "off" this year. I think he was really caught up in the love he was getting and the revival feeling we all had of getting our program back last year and I think his confidence and his spirit got rattled when things didnt start so well this year. I think it shocked him some how easily the love can fade when you're not winnign around here and thats why you saw him kind of mopy and down. I think he felt like he was letting BBN down and he was feeling a little, not sure hurt is the word, but shocked at how the good vibes had faded so fast.
He's a mild mannered nice guy at heart and may need to grow the tougher side of him to handle all this just like Joe B had to when he took over as one of us. When BBN gets on you they want to see you fight back and show confidence not mope. I think we will see him grow into this. I'm rooting for him cause I know how much he cares.
he's a big fan so he gets to coach the team? that's how it normally works right?
What if he makes a sweet sixteen next year? We will perpetually be bad by uk standards. While Duke UNC KU and UConn chip away at the things that make us the greatest program. I feel like the pope hire will probably end our cbb dominance. He’s not getting to a ff anytime soon and it’s been 11 years since. Uk needs an elite outsider with real energy. Pearl probably would have won a title here in 5 years. Yet our trash AD hires UKs biggest fan to coach with the sole reason being he played here for 2 seasons. Pope has mark fox on the bench lol. What did uk fans expect.
Basically my thoughts summed up. This is why I'm fire happy.
It’d be better if Pope sucks than is just mediocre because one gets him out of the job quicker and the other places Kentucky in perpetual mediocrity.
Goodnight! It’s the beginning of year TWO! I gotta get off this board for awhile. Good Lord.
This is what has me feeling conflicted. I can't actively root against the team. I really like a lot of our talent this year. But I also truly think Pope ain't it. I can't unsee the things I've seen from him so far this year. I think most UK fans know deep down that he ain't the guy, that's why all the defenses of him boil down to "he's the biggest fan" or "he bleeds blue" whatever that means.
And I also know Barnhart. We know he likes to pass out contract extensions like candy on Halloween. What would it take for him to extend Pope before he (Barney) resigns?
If he hadn’t been injured, he would still be in college this year because he was not age eligible for the NBA draft.
Legacies are created and I’m saying that Kentucky could do better to create our own.
We’ve had our share of complacent coaching.
There is a difference in playing here and being a part of the program vs coaching from your recliner.
In point of fact Pope IS the guy as he coaches at UK right now, and will continue to do so for at LEAST one more year. I said in beginning given the situation he inherited I would decide after year 3 wether he was a good coach for us. I' m sorry Cal burned alot of you guys out. It's not Pope's fault that we haven't been to a FF in 10 years nor is it his fault we haven't won a title in 13 years.I think alot of the BS I have heard directed toward him is related to that frustration. Then there is another faction that didn't want him hired in the first place and will NEVER accept this fact.
My take is that UK MUST have a new AD to have any chance of being great at football or basketball and I'm sticking to my 3 year evaluation of Pope at Kentucky. Given the BS culture Cal left him with and the BS business deals the AD continues to saddle him with I think this is fair.
My take is that UK MUST have a new AD to have any chance of being great at football or basketball and I'm sticking to my 3 year evaluation of Pope at Kentucky. Given the BS culture Cal left him with and the BS business deals the AD continues to saddle him with I think this is fair.
First things first.. let's fix this JMI situation either by giving them the boot, or forcing them to change their ways. They sure seemed to care more about their revenue than getting the best recruits they can. I would bet we change a lot of our "NIL Pitch" in the off season, especially if JMI wants to continue making a living off of us. Top recruits really should be lining up to play here, with our funding, with our facilities, for a top-name program, and for a coach that seems pretty likeable (albeit maybe corny).
Then we can see what Pope can do. I do see promise in him, but I also see areas he has to work on. But regardless, no coach is going to work with the way JMI/Mitch have been doing things. Let's fix that first.
You really have turned into the most negative, anti-Kentucky poster I've ever seen and I'm just at a loss for that. You've always been a great poster on this board and I've enjoyed your posts and your views for years, but for whatever reason, you seem to have lost all common sense when it comes to Kentucky Basketball. I've definitely been one that's been defending Pope, but I've never said he's killing it; I said that we should wait and let the season play out before everyone crucifies him. He did a great job last season with what he had. This year started out ugly, but we were without 3 important starters and as much a you, and others, try to say otherwise; missing those starters did make a HUGE difference for this team. You have to take that into account with the losses this year. Things have started to improve and they're playing better and had the full roster for part of Saturday and looked very good. That should give Kentucky fans hope and make them excited for what could be coming, but for some reason, you claim to be a Kentucky fan, but refuse to acknowledge anything positive that happens with this team. For people to say Pope should have already been fired is one of the most asinine things I've ever seen anyone write (and I'm not saying that you said that). Questioning Pope is one thing and it's fair to question, but it also makes sense to look at the big picture; we had 3 starters injured and that's significant. As I've said before, why not see where things stand at the end of the season and then see where things stand. I have seen NOTHING at this point that makes me think Pope cannot do this job. If I'm wrong; I'll admit it. As a Kentucky fan, I choose to root for my Cats, not try to trash them and the coach in every thread.
Anti-Kentucky? The whole reason I post this stuff, is because I want UK back to being UK. I don't think Pope is the answer for us. He's a mid coach who is a poor recruiter. Duke and Uconn are chipping away at our all time status. Kansas is too. I think we need a truly elite coach who is proven. Because we cant afford to slip after Calipari's last 5-6 seasons. We cant toil in medocrity, thats how we become Indiana. Simple I think. Beat Alabama and UT and I'll agree with you. We are in a final four drought. Uconn, UCLA, UNC, Duke, and Kansas have all made final fours in the 2020s. UK has not. We haven't won the SEC since 2020. The SECT since 2018. So, I'm a little restless. If a coach isn't gonna workout, it's time to cut bait. And I believe Pope isn't the man for the job. Just like you think he is. That's ok, we will see. Hopefully I am wrong. UK has been down too long.
Some of our fans are hysterical. First they say that Pope is not the answer after only a year and a few games, those same fans kept saying they don't see any improvement in the team and we should at least be seeing improvement. Then as Pope starts showing improvement by beating to good teams in IU and St. Johns, they then turn around and make fun of us fans that like to point that the team seems to be improving by acting like those 2 teams are trash and don't count.
