Mass shootings in Paris (the French one)

[KingOfBBN]

In understand most of the political BS around all this, but I don't understand why our ever expanding feminism movement doesn't take over the Islam news. That's very odd to me.

Same reason the LGBT groups only target Christians and not Muslims. Stephen Crowder did an undercover video of pretending to be gay and trying to get cakes made at Muslim bakeries and all of them refused.

I stand by the sentiment that Christians are the only group you can mock and bash with no consequence by the PC crowd. For once, I'd love to see them have the balls to take on Islam. Bill Maher echoes these sentiments and he's hardcore left and one of the few who honestly reveals what Islam is.

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

In understand most of the political BS around all this, but I don't understand why our ever expanding feminism movement doesn't take over the Islam news. That's very odd to me.

because then they'd be islamophobic racists, too. since criticizing religious doctrine is a form a racism. obviously.

 

[qwesley]

They want you to criticize them! Don't fall for it!

Let love win..please.

 

[KentuckyStout]

You appear to be knowledgeable and/or qualified to discuss middle east "societies" to an extent to expand on this comment. I'm perplexed that anybody with a real understanding of those tribal cultures could possibly think it could happen - particularly within any timeframe that could be useful to the current urgency. Could you elaborate?

I'm really not though, sorry I didn't mean to imply that I was. To elaborate I can only say what I believe is going to happen.

I believe these tribal cultures will be marginalized by two means:

1. Islam will be partially (possibly completely) eradicated as an organized religion.(probably practice in privacy of own home only)
2. Redistribution of regional wealth. (reinvest in war recovery, infrastructure, schools, businesses etc. possible foreign aid)

As far as any "current timeframe" - I'm not sure how realistic it is to expect a thousands of years issue to be resolved quickly, but Muslim clerics will see their power and influence bleed dry sooner or later. The region is headed for secular Arab states, not Islamic states. The only possibility by these governments to achieve a measure of peace and stability in the region is the eradication of Islam.

 

[TheEgyptianMagician]

Can anyone actually say that Syria was worse off with Assad running things the way he was 5 years ago than it is today. Yes, it was difficult for many but the country is now destroyed.

The point wasn't to restate the obvious, it was about going forward. You still have Kerry saying Assad has to go and I presume it will remain official inept Obama policy... Before Paris the main concern was that Russia was hitting rebel Syrian forces too, not just ISIS, oh and that bs that ISIS was pretty well contained.

You've got Saudis sending weapons and equipments to Syrian rebels if we don't that just ends up in ISIS hands eventually. So what if the people are unhappy and oppressed by a dictator, let ISIS be opressed by one too.

 

[KentuckyStout]

Cujo, I keep rereading this post. I will post more about it. Torn. What you are describing is holy war. But perhaps Muslims think we already are. The link between nazi extremism is some what persuasive. I just don't know.

Not so much a Holy War per se, like the Crusades where it was Christians fighting Muslims.

More like a coalition of nations working together to crush Islam, but they certainly won't be doing it in the name of any religion. It will be a war against religion.

Just my thoughts though. TFWIW

 

[KingOfBBN]

 

[qwesley]

oh boy, didn't need this

Salon.comVerified account‏@Salon
Elisabeth Hasselbeck has just given ISIS its newest recruitment video http://slnm.us/n1CJdVl

 

[KopiKat]

Before I open that link and go down that rabbit hole, I'll tell you that the way you worded your response to me made it appear you were blaming the Jewish people for Nazism. You appear to be justifying the Nazi response the mere existence of Jews.

How do you justify the existence of Muslims?

You may do as you wish. And to be precise, you took my remarks bad wrong. Don't take this the wrong way, but your understanding of European-Jewish history is obviously very thin on a good day. If I said Hitler and the Nazi's provided the final solution to the jewish question do you take me as a supporter of Nazism or as a person who is correctly stating history using 19th and 20th century vernacular? You are correct about one thing to be sure - it is indeed a rabbit hole. The one which affects your life and all lives on this planet as I type. For example, were it not for the Jewish question, were it not for the restored state of Israel in 1948, were it not for the conspired attempt by Israel's neighbor's (Egypt, Jordan, Syria) in 1967 to vanquish their new neighbor, only to be defeated by Israel in one week and when the New Jewish Nation waltzed into lands they hand not known as their own for almost two millennium (the West Bank in particular), resulting in the displacement of a very large number of Palestinian refugee people, the middle east might never have become as unstable as it has, and this world of terror might not be. I don't necessarily agree with those connections but some do. I have recommended Thomas Friedman's "From Beirut to Jerusalem" more times than I can say grace over, and I would like to earnestly do that for you know if I may, ymmot.

I blame many things for the rise of the Nazis - the National Socialist Workers Party. Truthfully, the Treaty of Versailles was more than the German people could bear. Chamberlain's appeasement policies. And then the German people's natural penchant for being the most hoodwinkable people in western Europe. Yes, I said it. As for their methods and why? Mein Kampf is not an easy read, Some of it is a babbling, but he makes his case for it (the final solution). I don't recommend it. So much may be learned legitimately elsewhere But I will warn you about the rabbit hole, to go far enough down it may result in you developing some sensitivities for persons and cultures your never in a million years thought you would.

 

[JHB4UK]

French police foiled another setback (/Obama), wiped out a terrorist cell about to pop into action

 

[ctharris07]

What country was that filmed in?

 

[starchief]

You may do as you wish. And to be precise, you took my remarks bad wrong. Don't take this the wrong way, but your understanding of European-Jewish history is obviously very thin on a good day. If I said Hitler and the Nazi's provided the final solution to the jewish question do you take me as a supporter of Nazism or as a person who is correctly stating history using 19th and 20th century vernacular? You are correct about one thing to be sure - it is indeed a rabbit hole. The one which affects your life and all lives on this planet as I type. For example, were it not for the Jewish question, were it not for the restored state of Israel in 1948, were it not for the conspired attempt by Israel's neighbor's (Egypt, Jordan, Syria) in 1967 to vanquish their new neighbor, only to be defeated by Israel in one week and when the New Jewish Nation waltzed into lands they hand not known as their own for almost two millennium (the West Bank in particular), resulting in the displacement of a very large number of Palestinian refugee people, the middle east might never have become as unstable as it has, and this world of terror might not be. I don't necessarily agree with those connections but some do. I have recommended Thomas Friedman's "From Beirut to Jerusalem" more times than I can say grace over, and I would like to earnestly do that for you know if I may, ymmot.

I blame many things for the rise of the Nazis - the National Socialist Workers Party. Truthfully, the Treaty of Versailles was more than the German people could bear. Chamberlain's appeasement policies. And then the German people's natural penchant for being the most hoodwinkable people in western Europe. Yes, I said it. As for their methods and why? Mein Kampf is not an easy read, Some of it is a babbling, but he makes his case for it (the final solution). I don't recommend it. So much may be learned legitimately elsewhere But I will warn you about the rabbit hole, to go far enough down it may result in you developing some sensitivities for persons and cultures your never in a million years thought you would.

I've read Friedman's book. Good read.

You mentioned Chamberlain's appeasement policy. I've seen countless documentaries and read many books on Hitler's road to war. Almost all say that his first aggressions were probes to see if the Allies would respond and many if not most believe he would have backed off if they had seriously responded early.

The mistake that has been made is to have let a "caliphate" be established. Islam teaches that when a legitimate caliphate comes into existence, Muslims must join up. That is why fighters are flooding into Syria, Iraq and several other countries in the ME. That plus the successes they have seen. Those radicalized feel compelled to join. On Frontline last night it showed how many Taliban were switching sides and going over to ISIS because they believe there is a caliphate (plus the fact that ISIS pays $700 a month - a great wage in Afghanistan).

People just can't understand that Islamic "radicalism" is just Islam straight out of the Koran. Their goals and tactics are not disguised. They proudly announce their goals and methods. They have no intention of ever assimilating with any part of this world.

We'll never stamp out the ideology. We can however stamp out the caliphate and take back the land they control (their base). It will require boots on the ground though. Maybe a coalition will eventually be formed to do it (France and Russia are angry enough to get on board now, I believe.. Obama won't join willingly but will be forced in. UK?) Could take all the land back in 3 months and eliminate ISIS" biggest draw.

 

[qwesley]

The Hill ‏@thehill 20m20 minutes ago
JUST IN: Syrians arrested while heading to US with stolen Greek passports http://hill.cm/GHWBmmP

 

[UKserialkiller]

The Hill ‏@thehill 20m20 minutes ago
JUST IN: Syrians arrested while heading to US with stolen Greek passports http://hill.cm/GHWBmmP

They were just trying to sneak over to show us how peaceful they are. No bad intentions. Those Syrians dittint do nuffin.

 

[qwesley]

Reminder, the FBI says that immigrants from Syria are much harder to do checks on that Iraq. Reminder (2) after serious failures in the system was found in 2011 the Obama admin stopped allowing Iraqi immigrants in for 6 months. Via the Federalist:

Although the Obama administration currently refuses to temporarily pause its Syrian refugee resettlement program in the United States, the State Department in 2011 stopped processing Iraq refugee requests for six months after the Federal Bureau of Investigation uncovered evidence that several dozen terrorists from Iraq had infiltrated the United States via the refugee program.

After two terrorists were discovered in Bowling Green, Kentucky, in 2009, the FBI began reviewing reams of evidence taken from improvised explosive devices (IEDs) that had been used against American troops in Iraq. Federal investigators then tried to match fingerprints from those bombs to the fingerprints of individuals who had recently entered the United States as refugees.
.....
“How did a person who we detained in Iraq — linked to an IED attack, we had his fingerprints in our government system — how did he walk into America in 2009?” asked one former Army general who previously oversaw the U.S. military’s anti-IED efforts.

 

[CatDaddy4daWin]

Yeah, it is pure delusion. They also, don't see the total hypocrisy in the backing of Islam. You cannot back Islam and be feminist and all for LGBT rights. They're totally conflicting ideologies. Islam is 100 percent against your "anything goes" mantra.

Libs don't have some "bleeding heart." You're just too GD stupid and committed to your ideology and have to twist yourself like a pretzel to try and not contradict yourselves. This is the SAME GROUP who bashes Christians 24/7 and says some of the most vile stuff but now you're all concerned with Islam and not wanting to paint them in a negative light? Have you been effing asleep forever? Did you never study history, Catdaddy?

Islam is the most oppressive and insane BS out there and we pay a price for it on a daily basis with killings you'll never see American media cover. We're also talking about people who believe and back Sharia Law, has female genital mutilation and backs a religion that STILL has women being stoned and honor killings.

The left is just committed to the stupidity. Everyone said this migrant crisis would be exploited and it was in no time after liberals refused to believe it would and now they're trying to be apologists. It's just humorous watching them defend the constant murders in the name of Islam and acting like there is no link. Yeah, terror has no "religion" yet I don't see Mormons blowing themselves up and committing tons of rapes? The truth is, Islam is the only religion anyone is afraid of and that is why they get a pass because these are the people who will murder you over a cartoon or stab you over not being in a study group (yeah, UC Merced killer from two weeks ago they conveniently ignore).

And the left freaks out over people like Kim Davis. Just total hypocrisy as usual.

What is pure delusion is acting like decisions of previous administrations have nothing to do with the current predicament we are in. And yet here we are again repeating the failures of the past.

The version of Islam practiced in the Middle East is horrendous, there's no way around that. Those people are animals, sub humans. It's the most despicable religion out there, but there are also moderate Muslims who need to be brought into the fold.

No one has any answers on how to defeat these guys, and anyone pretending to is delusional. But all we have been doing over the past few decades is create more and more martyrs. It's groundhog day everyday over there and we would like to thank the Bushes and Reagans for their wonderful contributions to this. Quit trying to blame liberals when it's the war hawks of the Republican party who have brought decades of war and thousands of dead Americans to keep the oil flowing! You broke it!

I'd suggest we work with whoever to try to destroy the caliphate, let the remnants scatter and then get the hell out of the Middle East. Either that or just take over a portion of Iraq and create a base where we can fight from for the next thousand years.

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

oh boy, didn't need this

Salon.comVerified account‏@Salon
Elisabeth Hasselbeck has just given ISIS its newest recruitment video http://slnm.us/n1CJdVl

Just to make a comment, not saying you do this...but anyone who ever bashes the absurdity of Fox News can absolutely never do so if they read Salon.

 

[WildcatofNati]

What is pure delusion is acting like decisions of previous administrations have nothing to do with the current predicament we are in. And yet here we are again repeating the failures of the past.

The version of Islam practiced in the Middle East is horrendous, there's no way around that. Those people are animals, sub humans. It's the most despicable religion out there, but there are also moderate Muslims who need to be brought into the fold.

No one has any answers on how to defeat these guys, and anyone pretending to is delusional. But all we have been doing over the past few decades is create more and more martyrs. It's groundhog day everyday over there and we would like to thank the Bushes and Reagans for their wonderful contributions to this. Quit trying to blame liberals when it's the war hawks of the Republican party who have brought decades of war and thousands of dead Americans to keep the oil flowing! You broke it!

I'd suggest we work with whoever to try to destroy the caliphate, let the remnants scatter and then get the hell out of the Middle East. Either that or just take over a portion of Iraq and create a base where we can fight from for the next thousand years.

Let's assume, for sake of argument, that all of the current problems with ISIS and other forms of terrorism can be attributed to bad decisions from Reagan, Bush, and other Republicans, and only Republicans.

What difference does it really make at this point? How does assigning underlying blame lead to a solution? In the absence of a time machine where we can go back in time and not invade Iraq, what good does it do to continually harp on Bush for invading Iraq? I was against it myself, but I don't go around telling people "I told you so", because it's pointless. To your credit, you do propose some ideas, but there are too many posts that don't.

 

[catfan in loserville]

I don't get what has happened to this country. I'm not trying to be political, but since Obama has taken office this is happening more and more. Islam is a religion that is about violence, look at the dude in London, Ahmed Chuthtry(sp?). He speaks for most Muslims in London and states that these practices aren't extreme, but the norm.

I fear that if we don't have the same enthusiasm about our beliefs then we will get taken over. This is one incident where the silent majority won't win. We need to do something and it needs to be done now. It seems like pulling our troops wasn't such a horrible idea. George W Bush doesn't look like the idiot most people made him out to be, this crap never went on like this when he was in office.

 

[catfan in loserville]

Sorry to double post, but aren't we all on the same team here guys and gals? We don't need to be arguing over this, we need to come together and talk about how we aren't going to let the USA go down the drain like Europe is right now. The U.K. has millions of Muslim refugees and they have taken over there, just look at Luton.

Why can't we as Americans rally together? We need to put politics on hold and fix this problem. Too many people are just turning their backs on this issue, having this "well it ain't bothering me" mentality. Look how together this country was after 9/11, is it going to take another attack, that is even worse to get us to wake up?

Everyone needs to put their phones away and get a grip with what is going on.

 

[KentuckyStout]

Why can't we as Americans rally together?

Because the US is fragmented by special interest groups and weakened by apathy. Divided upon party lines, regional, racial, cultural, social, and moral (etc) differences with no common standard.

 

[cbpointblank1979]

Having finally caught up on this thread, I'm blown away that rodgerblue hasn't been banned for explicitly calling for a new Holocaust. When you use loaded phrases like "there is only one solution - and it should be final," everybody knows what you're saying. Then, when asked to clarify, the response is "I don't like Islam, and hope every man, woman and child of that faith burns"... Look, I know this is a passionate issue, but it seems like FLAT OUT calling for the systematic deaths of more than a billion people should be at least on par with posting a pic of tits or something.

It's not that it kinda *sounded* like the holocaust, he straight up used the exact same terminology that the Nazis did. That is evil, "you need professional help" talk.

 

[warrior-cat]

What is pure delusion is acting like decisions of previous administrations have nothing to do with the current predicament we are in. And yet here we are again repeating the failures of the past.

The version of Islam practiced in the Middle East is horrendous, there's no way around that. Those people are animals, sub humans. It's the most despicable religion out there, but there are also moderate Muslims who need to be brought into the fold.

No one has any answers on how to defeat these guys, and anyone pretending to is delusional. But all we have been doing over the past few decades is create more and more martyrs. It's groundhog day everyday over there and we would like to thank the Bushes and Reagans for their wonderful contributions to this. Quit trying to blame liberals when it's the war hawks of the Republican party who have brought decades of war and thousands of dead Americans to keep the oil flowing! You broke it!

I'd suggest we work with whoever to try to destroy the caliphate, let the remnants scatter and then get the hell out of the Middle East. Either that or just take over a portion of Iraq and create a base where we can fight from for the next thousand years.

History much? Your attacks on Republican shows that you have no clue as to what is going on. Your left leaning agenda only points to your inability to think objectively and are part of the problem. These people have been fighting and killing for thousands of years and hate our way of life no matter what side of the political party you stand on. The big thing now is to stop bringing them here, get our people out of there and let them go back to taking care of themselves.

 

[warrior-cat]

Because the US is fragmented by special interest groups and weakened by apathy. Divided upon party lines, regional, racial, cultural, social, and moral (etc) differences with no common standard.

Nail meet Hammer.

 

[TheEgyptianMagician]

Because the US is fragmented by special interest groups and weakened by apathy. Divided upon party lines, regional, racial, cultural, social, and moral (etc) differences with no common standard.

Additionally because we get our news and information as sources of entertainment, brought to you by CocaCola and Harry's Razors. Instead of dealing with the complex realities of the situation, we want to get angy and find someone to blame.

This is the reality of the problem, and we need to get it right.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/18/w...o-beat-isis-reform-islamic-teaching.html?_r=0

How to Beat ISIS: Reform Islamic Teaching

The following excerpts are from an interview about how to defeat the Islamic State with two former jihadists: Maajid Nawaz, a former recruiter for the radical Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir, and Mubin Shaikh, a former extremist from Canada who spent time with the Taliban before turning away from radical Islam.

Maajid Nawaz

“There is no point in denying it. The statement that this has nothing to do with Islam is disingenuous. It’s as unhelpful as saying this is in essence Islam.”

“We need to have a candid conversation about this and recognize that there is a correlation between scripture and this. There are also geopolitical issues, yes — but there is also a relationship with scripture.”

“What I understood to be the correct reading of Islam was in fact just one of many historical interpretations that existed out there. The theological pluralism that used to exist has been lost among angry young Muslims.”

“We cannot shoot our way out of this.”

Mubin Shaikh

“Of course I believe it is the word of God — absolutely it is the speech of God, 100 percent. But my counterargument is this: Do you think that God is confined to the sociopolitical culture of the 700s? Their argument goes, ‘So who are you to change these interpretations?’ But the counterargument is you’re in fact not changing anything. You’re respecting the fact that the revelations were sent in a very particular context.”

When the Quran says, “‘Prepare your steeds for war,’ this is one of the exhortations to military readiness. How come you interpret that to mean today it’s tanks and machine guns and blah blah? Why aren’t you using swords, spears and shields? So you recognize that there is an element of modernization already. So you can pick and choose. Otherwise, where’s your donkey? Why aren’t you riding your mule?”

 

[WalkersGoggles_rivals310859]

The only thing that separates Christians from Muslims is that Christians (for the most part) don't take everything in the Bible literally. If they did then there would be stonings every Saturday.

My pretend friend is better than your pretend friend. You better love my pretend friend or you will burn in pretend fire. Love my pretend friend or I will cut your head off.

It's childish.

I really can't believe that education hasn't eradicated all of this yet.

 

[hilow56]

Generations need to be wiped out. Plain and simple. Trust none of those animals.

 

[KentuckyStout]

The only thing that separates Christians from Muslims is that Christians (for the most part) don't take everything in the Bible literally. If they did then there would be stonings every Saturday.

This sentence confirms that you know very little about what is taught in the Christian (Greek) scriptures. There is absolutely no such thing as "stonings every Saturday" to be found in them. Quite the opposite.

If "Christians" took the scriptures literally then none of them would be running for political office and they certainly wouldn't be harming anyone for not practicing their religion.

 

[P.PattersonISwalkingthruthatdoor]

This sentence confirms that you know very little about what is taught in the Christian (Greek) scriptures. There is absolutely no such thing as "stonings every Saturday" to be found in them. Quite the opposite.

If "Christians" took the scriptures literally then none of them would be running for political office and they certainly wouldn't be harming anyone for not practicing their religion.

Or have liquid bank accounts

 

[starchief]

This sentence confirms that you know very little about what is taught in the Christian (Greek) scriptures. There is absolutely no such thing as "stonings every Saturday" to be found in them. Quite the opposite.

If "Christians" took the scriptures literally then none of them would be running for political office and they certainly wouldn't be harming anyone for not practicing their religion.

Christians were not the perpetrators of stonings. They were the victims.

 

[-LEK-]

Christians were not the perpetrators of stonings. They were the victims.

You are probably right...

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

Achan ... took of the accursed thing. ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. ... So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Joshua 7:1-26

If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned. Exodus 21:28

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.Deuteronomy 13:5-10

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56

 

[wkycatfan_rivals376690]

The OT law did call for people to stoned for certain offenses. Jesus seemed to call for a new way when he encountered the woman caught in adultery by the Jewish leaders in the NT. The veil of the temple was torn upon His death, to illustrate this fact. I've always wondered what the Jewish leaders must have thought regarding the torn veil.......and the earthquake.......and the dark skies......

 

[wkycatfan_rivals376690]

I'm really starting to wonder if the seeds of Islam weren't planted in Genesis with Ishmael, broke through he ground with 'Ole Mo' in 700 AD, and will fully bloom in the prophecies of Revelation......

 

[KopiKat]

You are probably right...

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

Achan ... took of the accursed thing. ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. ... So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Joshua 7:1-26

If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned. Exodus 21:28

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.Deuteronomy 13:5-10

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56

Each of those examples comes straight out of the first 5 books of the Old Testament (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy). This is what is referred to in Judaism (Jewish) as "The Torah", the cornerstone document of Jewish religion, and in the most technical sense is separate from the New Covenant (Christianity). Yes, these items are included in the bible (I'm not a bible thumper, btw - I do know some things about religions), but at some point the Christian movement must be allowed to take credit for what forms of belief (Old Covenant) it was that they chose to exchange in favor of the present (New Covenant). You also provided a story of where THE HEBREWS put those laws into practical application (Valley of Achan - book of Joshua).

So it looks like your stoner cynicism needs to be directed towards the Jews of the world and not the Christians. Unless you are prepared to argue that Christians believe everything that Jews believe in. Let me know if you are interested in doing that. Worth my time.

 

[KopiKat]

Wiki page to Torah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

 

[-LEK-]

Each of those examples comes straight out of the first 5 books of the Old Testament (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy). This is what is referred to in Judaism (Jewish) as "The Torah", the cornerstone document of Jewish religion, and in the most technical sense is separate from the New Covenant (Christianity). Yes, these items are included in the bible (I'm not a bible thumper, btw - I do know some things about religions), but at some point the Christian movement must be allowed to take credit for what forms of belief (Old Covenant) it was that they chose to exchange in favor of the present (New Covenant). You also provided a story of where THE HEBREWS put those laws into practical application (Valley of Achan - book of Joshua).

So it looks like your stoner cynicism needs to be directed towards the Jews of the world and not the Christians. Unless you are prepared to argue that Christians believe everything that Jews believe in. Let me know if you are interested in doing that. Worth my time.

Oh thanks. Good to know the Pentateuch and the OT are not part of the Christian cannon nor do Christians consider it...

 

[wkycatfan_rivals376690]

It's clear to me, that the God of the OT and the God of the NT are one in the same. IMO, the purposes of the OT are man's origins, history, illustrating the depravity of man and how God feels about it, learning the mind/emotions of God, and pointing forward into time to Jesus Christ. The NT in turn, not only points back to the OT, but fulfills the OT, while introducing the New Way of God's grace laid on top of God's law.

I like what Phillip Yancey once wrote, “In a nutshell, the Bible from Genesis 3 to Revelation 22 tells the story of a God reckless with desire to get his family back.”.

 

[-LEK-]

It's clear to me, that the God of the OT and the God of the NT are one in the same. IMO, the purposes of the OT are man's origins, history, illustrating the depravity of man and how God feels about it, learning the mind/emotions of God, and pointing forward into time to Jesus Christ. The NT in turn, not only points back to the OT, but fulfills the OT, while introducing the New Way of God's grace laid on top of God's law.

I like what Phillip Yancey once wrote, “In a nutshell, the Bible from Genesis 3 to Revelation 22 tells the story of a God reckless with desire to get his family back.”.

you can't say it counts in one sentence then invalidate it in another

Also, I agree with you, just pointing out stonings are apart of the Christian cannon

 

[wkycatfan_rivals376690]

you can't say it counts in one sentence then invalidate it in another

.....while introducing the New Way of God's grace laid on top of God's law.

 

[TheEgyptianMagician]

That's the whole point, then Mohammadists came and said slow your roll enough with this forgiveness we aren't convincing these pagans here is God's final word.